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Nidecker Spectre - too deep sidecut? (7.9 m Sidecut Radius on 168)


Skahw

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I ride a Spectre Carbon 168 and a Kessler BX 162 which I would guess is similar in many ways to the F2 Eliminator given the purpose.

Although I ride the Spectre with hardboots and the Kessler with softies, the boards themselves are worlds apart. The Spectre's softer flex and short single radius is great for taking it into tight places like glades but would it would bore me if all I had was wide open groom. With the Kessler's KST, I'm able to vary turn radius. Also the Spectre's edge hold does not hold a candle to the BX's. The Nidecker has a lot advantage in float, though, with greater taper and setback.

Note that the Eliminator will be heavier, burlier. In the Kessler, there's rubber and metal whereas in the Spectre, none of that. If you're a big boy and you like jumps, the Spectre will not last you long.

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19 minutes ago, charliechocolate said:

I ride a Spectre Carbon 168 and a Kessler BX 162 which I would guess is similar in many ways to the F2 Eliminator given the purpose.

Although I ride the Spectre with hardboots and the Kessler with softies, the boards themselves are worlds apart. The Spectre's softer flex and short single radius is great for taking it into tight places like glades but would it would bore me if all I had was wide open groom. With the Kessler's KST, I'm able to vary turn radius. Also the Spectre's edge hold does not hold a candle to the BX's. The Nidecker has a lot advantage in float, though, with greater taper and setback.

Thanks for that comparison. That was a great insight!

 

 

20 minutes ago, charliechocolate said:

Note that the Eliminator will be heavier, burlier. In the Kessler, there's rubber and metal whereas in the Spectre, none of that. If you're a big boy and you like jumps, the Spectre will not last you long.

For jumps I have my Capita Asymulator and my Korua Stealth 🙂

This one is going to be mainly for charging down the mountain.

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1 hour ago, Skahw said:

Right now I have these boards on my radar:

- F2 Eliminator WC TX - Carbon/Kevlar* in 163**
(Flex: 7/10, effective edge: 1440mm, sidecut radius: 13,2m, waist width 254mm)
for 349€ 700€

- F2 Eliminator Carbon* in 166W**
(Flex: 9/10, effective edge: 1240mm, sidecut radius: 13,3m, waist width 257mm)
for 499€ 1000€

- Nidecker Spectre in 168
(Flex: 8/10, effective edge: 1375mm, sidecut radius: 7.9m, waist width 242mm)
for 349€ 600€

- Ride Berzerker in 165
(Flex: 7/10***, effective edge: 1253mm, sidecut radius: 6.2 / 8.4 / 5.76, waist width 253mm)
for 325€ 530€

- Ride MTN Pig in 164W
(Flex: 7/10***, effective edge: 1251mm, sidecut radius: 10.2 / 7.7, waist width 268mm)
for 279€ 580€

- Jones Flagship in 167
(Flex: 8/10*, effective edge: 1246mm, sidecut radius: 9.4, waist width 259mm)
for 480€ 650€

- Burton Custom X in 166W
(Flex: 9/10, effective edge: 1295mm, sidecut radius: 8.4, waist width 266mm)
for 399€ 700€

- Korua Bullet Train in 160
(Flex: 9/10, effective edge: 1324mm, sidecut radius: 9.8, waist width 269mm)
for 699€

- SG SOUL*  in 164
(Flex: hard, effective edge: 1440mm, sidecut radius: 10.75, waist width 260mm)
for 679€


* The topsheet look a bit meh. But performance is more important tho.
** Also available in 163 for same price
*** I think the flex order is more like MTN Pig > Jones Flagship = Berzerker 

I would like to keep it unter 500€ tho.

(Im 195cm (6'5) and weight 175lbs (78kg) with US9 boots)

Non, to be honest. I've just heard some bad stuff. And I also like to save some bucks buysing offseason. But there is no "offseason", when its especially amde for you 😄

taking price into account I'd say

- F2 Eliminator WC TX - Carbon/Kevlar* in 163**
(Flex: 7/10, effective edge: 1440mm, sidecut radius: 13,2m, waist width 254mm)
for 349€ 700€

 

BUT you have to be ready for more aggressive stance angles 

13.2m is not too much, but at the beginning it could be uncomfortable

 

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16 minutes ago, rst said:

taking price into account I'd say

- F2 Eliminator WC TX - Carbon/Kevlar* in 163**
(Flex: 7/10, effective edge: 1440mm, sidecut radius: 13,2m, waist width 254mm)
for 349€ 700€

 

Thanks for your suggestion. 
Do you think 163 will be enough? The 166W version would be more expensive.

 

I am thinking about getting this one. But the topsheet just looks awful. Is using vinyl wrap a legitimat option or will it go of too easy or even change the board feel?

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17 minutes ago, daveo said:

Definitely go the wide version! 

Why exactly? US9 boots arent taht big, are they?
The 166W version would cost 559€. Thats a whole lot more than the 349€.

At that point the 
- F2 Eliminator Carbon* in 166W**
(Flex: 9/10, effective edge: 1240mm, sidecut radius: 13,3m, waist width 257mm)
for 499€ 1000€

would be cheaper.

Im looking into Apex, but I cant find any prices. Might call them tomorrow.
 

Edited by Skahw
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Maybe a silly question, but in your 'bombing' runs, are you making S-shaped turns that leave 1-2 cm wide tracks? i.e. what we define as carving. Not skidding. 

Not meant as an insult in any way. The average snowboarder and skier that talks about bombing down runs makes fast skidded turns, so sidecut radius matters less than you'd think for them. Toe & heel overhang don't matter as much either. 

This was 100% me a while ago. Fast skidded turns; thought I was awesome because I went faster than most. 

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12 minutes ago, Skahw said:

Why exactly? US9 boots arent taht big, are they?

If you are carving, then you definitely want the wide versions of the board with a boot angle of 9 and size US9. Otherwise you'll have overhang and boot out. 

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8 minutes ago, daveo said:

If you are carving, then you definitely want the wide versions of the board with a boot angle of 9 and size US9. Otherwise you'll have overhang and boot out. 

I wouldnt have a problem with going for higher angles than 9 on my backfoot

19 minutes ago, Corey said:

Maybe a silly question, but in your 'bombing' runs, are you making S-shaped turns that leave 1-2 cm wide tracks? i.e. what we define as carving. Not skidding. 

Not meant as an insult in any way. The average snowboarder and skier that talks about bombing down runs makes fast skidded turns, so sidecut radius matters less than you'd think for them. Toe & heel overhang don't matter as much either. 

This was 100% me a while ago. Fast skidded turns; thought I was awesome because I went faster than most. 

Hmm, at lower speeds I can carve in a S-shape and with rather thin tracks. But when I am going faster it's more skidding tbh. But I think that could also be cause of the tight sidecut radius making the turns to narrow, which makes them wash out with too much speed. That would change with a bigger sidecut radius, I guess.

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2 hours ago, Skahw said:

 I wouldnt have a problem with going for higher angles than 9 on my backfoot

Just some ideas below:

You'd need to go significantly higher to not get boot out.

It's easy to test, just strap your boot into your binding, keep the base plate as loose as possible while still being bolted in to the board but still able to rotate the binding on the baseplate with the boot in it. Then get 2 of your favourite boxes of goon and put them on your heel and toe side edge about your bindings (or cereal boxes, or anything that can be used as a guide to sit up against your edge and go vertically up), then rotate your binding until you are between the two guides.

SG Soul XT 164 or if you fit maybe a Soul Titan 164 might be what you're after I reckon. It's not so stiff that it's in the race snowboard cross realm of boards. Like I said, though, I know a 45kg Japanese girl riding an Eliminator Carbon 159 who will put most guys to shame (including myself), but not everyone has the skill to carve fast and hard at high speeds on a softboot board, I know I can't. Kind of emasculating, but it is what it is. She's better than me, I accept it. 

Soul range also has "powder inserts" so you can shift your bindings riiiiight back if you get a big powder day. The nose is more rockered than a bx race board for more all mountain versatility.

F2 Eliminator boards have a good reputation for a reason, but like what someone else said, maybe getting the titanal version might be the idea you're after.

But Oxess, Kessler will both be better I reckon. Apex, too. Just depends on where your values lie and how much money you want to waste.

Also, as a side note, I don't think there has been a person ever that has been unhappy with their custom Oxess or Kessler as long as they have been truthful with the builder. My last build I went from Medium-Hard to Medium stiffness because my knee is no longer that great. Sometimes it is hard to admit that stuff. Well for someone whose ego is huge, like mine, it is. 

Edited by daveo
brain issue
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6 minutes ago, charliechocolate said:

Must be a 'strayan thing 🤔

Haha was waiting for that. I'm trying to subliminally strayanise the forum mate. Soon every second word will be F's and C's and no one will even have noticed it happened.

Goon:

A_4_Litre_Cask_of_Australian_White_Wine.

He who drinks goon, usually looks like this:

goon-300x225.jpg

 

Edited by daveo
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Between those two boards I would go with the F2 Eliminator.  I have several friends who swear by them and they are some of the best softboot carvers I know.  I would disregard that Nidecker, that sidecut is very short, which typically means not stable at speed.  Ride is another good idea, I have a friend who carves the heck out of his Ride Commissioner.  Other ideas are Kessler Cross or SG Soul Titan.  Get the latter two at i-carve.com.

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image.png.4da6ca84543e6b9e01c367505e306178.png

 

For a size 9 boot (approx 29cm BSL) these will be the widths on 12, 21 and 30 degrees. You can usually accommodate about 1cm per side without much problems unless you're really laying it down.  So subtract 2cm from each to get the MINIMUM board width at the binding position (notice, this is usually the rear position). Subtract another 1cm for the waist width.

Again, this is the absolute minimum width you would need to have a reasonable chance of riding without bootout.  The more you lay it over the more boot drag will be a thing.

 

BTW, I have a Korua Cafe Racer and have tried the Bullet Train. They are awesome boards that are very capable so if that's your direction they are excellent choices which carve well and are a blast in almost any condition.

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32 minutes ago, daveo said:

@Skahw

Found a technical engineering diagram that may be of use to you. Obviously you'd replace the hardboots with your softboots.

fuego.jpg.e31e55f137239d973ab72a5fe66ab2

I will do that tomorrow! 
Never thought about a hardboot setup. I bought my Salomon Malamutes and the Rome Cleaver bindings for carving. I cant return them, so it seems like I will stick with the very stiff softboot setup. 

Maybe I'll get the chance to try out hardboots some day. But also gettting a hardboot setup would be too expensive... and it might overlap too much.

1 hour ago, daveo said:

F2 Eliminator boards have a good reputation for a reason, but like what someone else said, maybe getting the titanal version might be the idea you're after.

But that ouwld be 599€. 250 bucks for more dampening? I dont know 😅

 

 

1 hour ago, daveo said:

There are some Oxess boards in the sale section made for 70kg riders (racers), you may consider those... Board #17035 looks particularly good, maybe a bit short at 159, the rest are a bit narrow until you get to board #16466 but the sidecut is quite big at 16 (but that may not bother you if you want to "bomb" down and not carve). Only EUR513, also.

http://www.oxess.ch/files/51/bx-boards-sale.pdf

Well 16 is huge, maybe too much for my taste. I would try to keep it between 10 and 13 😄

Do you think these prices are fixed or might it be possible to get an even better deal when calling them? 513€ is still a lot of money

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47 minutes ago, JRAZZ said:

 

image.png.4da6ca84543e6b9e01c367505e306178.png

 

For a size 9 boot (approx 29cm BSL) these will be the widths on 12, 21 and 30 degrees. You can usually accommodate about 1cm per side without much problems unless you're really laying it down.  So subtract 2cm from each to get the MINIMUM board width at the binding position (notice, this is usually the rear position). Subtract another 1cm for the waist width.

Again, this is the absolute minimum width you would need to have a reasonable chance of riding without bootout.  The more you lay it over the more boot drag will be a thing.

 

BTW, I have a Korua Cafe Racer and have tried the Bullet Train. They are awesome boards that are very capable so if that's your direction they are excellent choices which carve well and are a blast in almost any condition.

Thanks for those numbers!

I already own a Korua Stealth. A Cafe Racer would overlap too much, I guess.

38 minutes ago, daveo said:

He's riding 9deg rear at the moment. Can you calc it?

I have tried 12deg rear and I liked it equally as much. So that shouldnt be a problem at all. 
I didnt try more, but I guess I wouldnt have a problem with even more.

50 minutes ago, JRAZZ said:

image.png.4da6ca84543e6b9e01c367505e306178.png

I guess I have to take the lower angle of both right?
 

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38 minutes ago, Skahw said:

But that ouwld be 599€. 250 bucks for more dampening? I dont know 😅

Worth imo.

38 minutes ago, Skahw said:

and it might overlap too much.

Don't think this is true. But it might very well be unecessary. As your angles increase above say 21degrees-ish you start to lose leverage over your edge in softboots. In saying that, the last time I rode softboots, I was at 33 front I think. Many people stiffen their softboot laterally to run higher angles. But as you go higher, you also lose the advantage softboots have.

38 minutes ago, Skahw said:

I will stick with the very stiff softboot setup. 

It's a good idea.

38 minutes ago, Skahw said:

Do you think these prices are fixed or might it be possible to get an even better deal when calling them? 513€ is still a lot of money

You'll need to talk to Marcel to discuss that. A new Oxess is EUR1600, so even though EUR513 seems like a lot of money, it wouldn't even cover the raw material cost, let alone labour or depreciation on equipment involved to manufacture the board. Off the shelf options like the F2 Elim will always be cheaper and are great, though.

#210185 looks particularly nice, but at EUR948, it may well be out of your budget.

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5 minutes ago, daveo said:

Don't think this is true. But it might very well be unecessary. As your angles increase above say 21degrees-ish you start to lose leverage over your edge in softboots. In saying that, the last time I rode softboots, I was at 33 front I think. Many people stiffen their softboot laterally to run higher angles. But as you go higher, you also lose the advantage softboots have.

Well I already ride 27+ on front foot. Thats more than 21 degree. And I might try more next time...
But yeah, I think softboots are fine.

 

7 minutes ago, daveo said:

You'll need to talk to Marcel to discuss that. A new Oxess is EUR1600, so even though 513 seems like a lot of money, it wouldn't even cover the raw material cost, let alone labour or depreciation on equipment involved to manufacture the board. Off the shelf options like the F2 Elim will always be cheaper and are great, though.

1600€? Jesus! Thats a lot. Then they truely have to be better than F2 Elim boards.
From the new list I was looking at #17338. But its waist width will be too narrow, when looking at the table above.

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Maybe the #17508?
169 length is even better. 
17m sidecut radius might be a little too much for my taste tho.
What do the Characters in "Mat." (Material I guess) stand for?
C = Carbon?
T = Titanal?
G = Goon???
 269 waist width might even be too much... but the ones with 259 have 19m sidecut radius.

Which one would you go for?

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1 minute ago, Skahw said:

1600€? Jesus! Thats a lot. Then they truely have to be better than F2 Elim boards.
From the new list I was looking at #17338. But its waist width will be too narrow, when looking at the table above.

Well, maybe for world cup athletes, but for scrubs like me it probably wouldn't make a difference haha.

Elim is a great board man, rest assured! Plus, it is German! (assuming you're German, this may be appealing)

3 minutes ago, Skahw said:

Well I already ride 27+ on front foot. Thats more than 21 degree. And I might try more next time...
But yeah, I think softboots are fine.

I think a splay of about 15 degrees between your front and rear boot is nice at softboot angles. Depends on what works for you. I don't think 27/21 would feel comfortable, though. I think I rode at 33/21 and it was really pushing the limits of what my boots could handle in terms of lateral stiffness (burton driver x).

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3 minutes ago, daveo said:

Well, maybe for world cup athletes, but for scrubs like me it probably wouldn't make a difference haha.

Elim is a great board man, rest assured! Plus, it is German! (assuming you're German, this may be appealing)

Yeah well I do not really care where its from. If any it would be a contra, because it woudnt be as rare here! 😄 And I wanna be a special boy 
Also the topsheet of the F2 boards look awful, I dont know what my german fellas smoked while design that

The #20426 looks like the perfect board. But why is it so much more expensive? Not cool

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