Jack M Posted March 2, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2022 2 hours ago, wulf said: Whenever you see a tapered shape (tail width less than nose width) you have a kind of Multi-Radii approach Not necessarily. Single radius boards can have any amount of taper by simply rotating the sidecuts. That said, I do believe F2 is using some kind of VSR or non-radial curve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnasmo Posted March 3, 2022 Report Share Posted March 3, 2022 The amount of taper on an alpine board is often just a byproduct of aligning the waist with the setback. Even a radial sidecut board may have a small amount of taper to move the waist from center back to the setback. Tapers of 10 to 20 mm, however, are compensating for more than just the setback. They are a good indicator that the nose has a smaller radius than the tail. All bets are off with powder shapes though, as they may be going for a pintail shape regardless of setback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted March 4, 2022 Report Share Posted March 4, 2022 On 3/2/2022 at 10:37 AM, Jack M said: Not necessarily. Single radius boards can have any amount of taper by simply rotating the sidecuts. This is true. BV told me that I could have the taper of my choice in a new design he built for me (the Revelation) with a near radial sidecut. Basically he told me taper aids the release from turns, even with a radial sidecut. My 175 Donek Rev with an 11-12 progressive sidecut has 2cm of taper! Still one of my favorite boards. In both cases I left it to the builder/designer to work out the details beyond my choice of waist width and scr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted December 26, 2022 Report Share Posted December 26, 2022 +1 on the new F2 Porto 163 SL Amazing board. took one/two run to get familiar with it (For me that's rare). Given the proper input it does amazingly. with less optimal input - it save my ass many time. For me: in SL size - I don't need to look any further. found my forever board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 1 hour ago, pow4ever said: SL size - I don't need to look any further. found my forever board. I would love to try that board.........but wish they did UPM! Seems like one of the best top 5 mass produced boards out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted December 29, 2022 Report Share Posted December 29, 2022 On 12/26/2022 at 7:15 PM, barryj said: I would love to try that board.........but wish they did UPM! Seems like one of the best top 5 mass produced boards out there! Barry I know you are tempted to put plates on a lot of your boards. I ride my K68 with the the Apex plate but don't want or need one on the the F2 163 SL WC. The board is so nimble and short that I would not want a plate on it. This board feels and rides very similar to a Kessler. It rails on ice and has become one of my fav boards. I just tested it yesterday at the end of the day on scrapped off icy conditions with some Apex Geckos and I am still trying to figure out if I liked the added weight and how it changed the flex of the board. Either way it held strong on the ice when committed to tipping it on edge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted January 3, 2023 Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 Sorely tempted - $540 right now including shipping - but I ride so rarely these days - basically Dec 15-Jan 6 because my job has me in Florida the rest of the winter. My little board is a MADD 158 reissue - is the 163 WC a huge upgrade, would you say? My big board is a Proteus 180/BBP and that setup isn't going anywhere, but I've recently switched my skis from older Head race stock to newer Supershapes, and there have definitely been some improvements baked into the new sticks, so I wonder if the same applies to boards... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 14 hours ago, Jonny said: My little board is a MADD 158 reissue - is the 163 WC a huge upgrade, would you say? Absolutely. Metal construction, decambered nose, a sensible waist width, 5cm longer, probably 10+cm longer edge contact, go for it. That old Madd doesn't owe you anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 3, 2023 Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 5 hours ago, Jack M said: Absolutely. Metal construction, decambered nose, a sensible waist width, 5cm longer, probably 10+cm longer edge contact, go for it. That old Madd doesn't owe you anything. +1. Jonny/Mr Shakespearean Go for it. i think it would be easy to unload if you don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 3, 2023 Report Share Posted January 3, 2023 20 hours ago, Jonny said: $540 right now including shipping Hmm.....f2 163 WC Speedster, Where from? Dollars or Euros?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted January 5, 2023 Report Share Posted January 5, 2023 On 1/3/2023 at 3:50 PM, barryj said: Hmm.....f2 163 WC Speedster, Where from? Dollars or Euros?? I-carve.com will have them, that is where Jack and I got ours. Ivan is great. They are so good I have a backup still in the wrapper I have a MADD as well and it is not even in the same ball park as the F2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 58 minutes ago, GeoffV said: got ours. So $540 (US/Euros?) for the f2 163 Speedster WC. Whats the 163 Proto cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 1 hour ago, barryj said: So $540 (US/Euros?) for the f2 163 Speedster WC. Whats the 163 Proto cost? Ivan at I-carve but Proto not discount is similar to Kessler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 3 hours ago, barryj said: Whats the 163 Proto cost? Why, are you planning on using it with an Allflex mount plate? The Proto has a tighter sidecut to offset the fact that such a plate limits board flex. The WC is the one to get if you’re not going to plate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 6, 2023 Report Share Posted January 6, 2023 45 minutes ago, Jack M said: Allflex mount plate Ha! I got too many (UPM) plates as it is........God forbid I try another plate system! Just curious mostly..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted January 11, 2023 Report Share Posted January 11, 2023 Phew! That was close! I was all set to send Ivan my money when I realized that the board I was looking at was the Eliminator (BX) not the Speedster slalom board. He has the 22/23 Speedster in stock, also at a very good price (700 euro) but with my season over that's probably not the best use of available cash right now. Ivan was very understanding of course - my own idiocy - there is a WC Titanal 163 in both styles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hug Masso Posted May 10 Report Share Posted May 10 On 9/20/2021 at 10:31 PM, Jack M said: As far as I can tell the retail price of new F2 boards is right up there with Kessler, SG, etc. Maybe the situation is different in Europe. Indeed! I just picked a F2 Speedster Wc Sl 163 for 455€ and 25€ shipped to Spain coming from Germany. It is a “new” old stock from 2018, but really new. It is a bargain. Hope it doesnt delaminate as the other WC I bought (only bad F2 so far I have seen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 10 Author Report Share Posted May 10 6 hours ago, Hug Masso said: Indeed! I just picked a F2 Speedster Wc Sl 163 for 455€ and 25€ shipped to Spain coming from Germany. It is a “new” old stock from 2018, but really new. It is a bargain. Hope it doesnt delaminate as the other WC I bought (only bad F2 so far I have seen) No I mean a new current model. We can get cheaper NOS boards too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hug Masso Posted May 10 Report Share Posted May 10 7 hours ago, Jack M said: No I mean a new current model. We can get cheaper NOS boards too. Sorry Jack I don’t understand the answer. I was answering to the remark F2 boards can be bought at very good prices. NOS=Not Of the Season? Are you saying current season boards can be had cheap also? The Wc Sl series is quite hard to find cheap on ebay, and normally would be more up to 7-800€ for a current season one. Icarve.com has them at around 900€ for the titanal models. I still find it bargain price, don’t you? As I said, the last WC SL from 2021/22 season has delaminated a bit… I want to think it has been an exception being a faulty one… all my F2 boards (5 in total) are helding very nicely, fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 10 Author Report Share Posted May 10 No, NOS = new old stock. check yyzcanuck.com for prices on new current boards (in Canadian dollars) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted May 11 Report Share Posted May 11 18 hours ago, Hug Masso said: The Wc Sl series is quite hard to find cheap on ebay, and normally would be more up to 7-800€ for a current season one. Icarve.com has them at around 900€ for the titanal models. I still find it bargain price, don’t you? I don’t find 900€ for a stock board to be much of a bargain. Personally if I wanted to spend that much I’d buck up another 100€ and get a Kessler. Here in Canada we can get a custom titanal Coiler built for about 645€. That’s a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hug Masso Posted May 11 Report Share Posted May 11 12 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said: Here in Canada we can get a custom titanal Coiler built for about 645€. Looks like a bargain indeed. I only have heard very good things about Coiler. I’ve also heard it is now impossible to get a board and the man who builds them will stop sometime soon. Regarding the f2, I would say they are good value, since a Kessler The Alpine is more on the 1200-1300€ here in Europe, but maybe you can get them cheaper in North America, although it would seem strange since there are import fees etc. However a F2 new old stock for a titanal board around 600€ seems a very good buy. That is, if they don’t delaminate. I would add I am now 2 months in since I did a reclamation to F2 and they still havent provided a solution. It is a strange company. A volatile company if that makes sense. The slalom and race boards that are not titanal from F2 can be bought at 300-400€ at the right time. 16 hours ago, Jack M said: yyzcanuck.com Oh didnt know them, it is nice they have the price put, as Icarve has NOT prices shown, which is disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 11 Author Report Share Posted May 11 4 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said: I don’t find 900€ for a stock board to be much of a bargain. Personally if I wanted to spend that much I’d buck up another 100€ and get a Kessler. Here in Canada we can get a custom titanal Coiler built for about 645€. That’s a bargain. Coiler is awesome but frankly they undercut the market by hundreds of dollars. It’s not realistic or sustainable. Companies like Donek, Winterstick and Prior have to pay employees and all the overhead that brings. Plus Bruce has been threatening retirement for a decade. I believe he is only taking orders from repeat customers. When he retires, say goodbye to sub-$1000 customs. I consider F2 on par with Kessler for performance, although they have no answer for the 168. Kessler is more of a microbrew company though, which feels good. 3 hours ago, Hug Masso said: Oh didnt know them, it is nice they have the price put, as Icarve has NOT prices shown, which is disappointing. If you have an ad blocker I’d appreciate you turning it off for this site. YYZ is a supporter here and a small mom-n-pop operation near Toronto. They are the F2 source for North America. i-carve can’t publish prices because he sells at a discount at higher volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted May 11 Report Share Posted May 11 For anybody interested Ivan just quoted me a 23/24 F2 Speedster PROTO SL 163 for 1150.00 EUR (reg. price 1500.00 EUR) - board has 20 + Allflex Inserts. $1500 Euros for an F2! Even at 20% off that's $1240US ....and too rich for my blood! Hard to quantify that amount of money for an F2! That's Kessler, Oxess money imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted May 11 Author Report Share Posted May 11 1 hour ago, barryj said: For anybody interested Ivan just quoted me a 23/24 F2 Speedster PROTO SL 163 for 1150.00 EUR (reg. price 1500.00 EUR) - board has 20 + Allflex Inserts. $1500 Euros for an F2! Even at 20% off that's $1240US ....and too rich for my blood! Hard to quantify that amount of money for an F2! That's Kessler, Oxess money imo They’re worth it, but only if you need Allflex inserts. Several F2s on World Cup podiums, including with Ledecká and more men now. If you don’t use a plate the Proto 163 turns tighter than the WC. Too tight, IMO. The Proto also has some more exotic laminates, but the WC is great board. It wowed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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