daveo Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 So my Kessler 168 has had a few days on it and I just got it prepared for its first base grind before the season starts for me. On the base directly under the UPM inserts there is some protrusions from where the plate has been installed. I believe this is called binding suck, but it's not sucked it, it's pushed out. Never really bothered about it but would just like to know if this is this safe to flatten and grind new structure into? The photos suck, you can barely see it with your eye, can kind of feel it slightly with your hand and you cannot see it protruding from side on or anything. As a guess it's probably 0.5mm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 .. would NOT grind that away to flatten it. If this is 0,5mm deep you will loose around 50% of your base thickness in one go (new bases are 1-1,2mm thick only). If your board has seen some grinding in the past that might be the killer for the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Normally it is binding " suck". Something odd going on with the mounting screws for the plate if you have high areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, wulf said: .. would NOT grind that away to flatten it. If this is 0,5mm deep you will loose around 50% of your base thickness in one go (new bases are 1-1,2mm thick only). If your board has seen some grinding in the past that might be the killer for the board. Excellent. That's what I needed to know. It's never been ground before. True bar tells me the base is perfectly flat, strangely enough. Did a brand new SG just then and that wasn't even perfectly flat. I guess I'll just leave it...? 6 minutes ago, SunSurfer said: Normally it is binding " suck". Something odd going on with the mounting screws for the plate if you have high areas. What do you think it is? They can go further in than when mountain the plate, it isn't like they are somehow pushing on them. *shrug* I really don't know. Edited January 6, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 That normally happens when the screws are too long for the insert... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) Suspected that but the bolts don't bottom out without the plate Edited January 11, 2019 by daveo didn't make any sense whatsoever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Snow or ice trapped in the bottom before installing the screws? The hydraulic pressure is intense. I've hammered base dimples flat before with a ball-peen hammer. It wasn't perfect but they were way worse than yours. The Ptex will be marred, but a grind will likely fix that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Corey said: Snow or ice trapped in the bottom before installing the screws? The hydraulic pressure is intense. I've hammered base dimples flat before with a ball-peen hammer. It wasn't perfect but they were way worse than yours. The Ptex will be marred, but a grind will likely fix that. I usually do it up once per season, but now when I think about it, they did come loose once and I had to tighten them on the mountain. I bet that was it! Good thinking. That didn't even occur to me. I'll try hammering them before I take it for a grind. Erm... using the round or flat end of the hammer? Sorry I'm not very handy Is it worth heating the base up a bit before I try that? Edited January 6, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 I used both ends. Flat to get it closer to flush, then rounded to get the last bit. Don't use a framing hammer with the teeth... I didn't do it on a Kessler though! The likelihood of hitting just the right spot with a hammer is inversely tied to the consequences of missing that spot. Hopefully someone can chime in with better advice! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) skip the hammer, small piece of metal on base dimple, wood on top sheet, c-clamp slow and easy, maybe a last little tap to get that last little set. impact more likely to break epoxy bonds Edited January 6, 2019 by b0ardski 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Hey this sounds like a great idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Yeah.....not binding suck. ...and Don't Base Grind or Tune the Base Without Fixing This!! I had the same problem on my K168 and UPM mounts making Hi spots! I took off the Plate and used a couple squares of wood and a C clamp and slowly increased pressure over a 8 hour period to get the base flat again. Then I filed off maybe 1/10 of the miscreant screws length........ Voila! No more Bumps!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 For anyone who has never seen an insert before it is assembled into a board i will try to describe how it should look . Modern inserts are now almost always stainless steel early ones were often brass. Much like a barrel nut . I'm dating myself by saying they are the little nuts that used to hold binders together or racks of parts manuals. Threaded inside they come in various depths with a large flange (umbrella like top ) the bottom of the threaded portion dead ends into this umbrella top. The threads do not go completely through the top When installed in your board it is now the bottom. If you happen to have debris ( ice, dirt etc. in the bottom on the insert or too long of a screw you will push the top of the insert (umbrella) out of shape. It is fairly thin so you should be able to force it back into position. As discussed earlier in this thread. Slow pressure is best if you are unsure about the process. Sharp impact or pressing will still have an effect on the ptex (stretching it ) anything with a ball shape something around 1/2 inch diameter pushing against the protrusion should reduce it . I wouldn't base grind without addressing the bumps first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, barryj said: Yeah.....not binding suck. ...and Don't Base Grind or Tune the Base Without Fixing This!! I had the same problem on my K168 and UPM mounts making Hi spots! I took off the Plate and used a couple squares of wood and a C clamp and slowly increased pressure over a 8 hour period to get the base flat again. Then I filed off maybe 1/10 of the miscreant screws length........ Voila! No more Bumps!! Right, thanks for that, Baz. I'll def get this sorted! I'll do the c clamp method this week! 11 minutes ago, lowrider said: For anyone who has never seen an insert before it is assembled into a board i will try to describe how it should look . Modern inserts are now almost always stainless steel early ones were often brass. Much like a barrel nut . I'm dating myself by saying they are the little nuts that used to hold binders together or racks of parts manuals. Threaded inside they come in various depths with a large flange (umbrella like top ) the bottom of the threaded portion dead ends into this umbrella top. The threads do not go completely through the top When installed in your board it is now the bottom. If you happen to have debris ( ice, dirt etc. in the bottom on the insert or too long of a screw you will push the top of the insert (umbrella) out of shape. It is fairly thin so you should be able to force it back into position. As discussed earlier in this thread. Slow pressure is best if you are unsure about the process. Sharp impact or pressing will still have an effect on the ptex (stretching it ) anything with a ball shape something around 1/2 inch diameter pushing against the protrusion should reduce it . I wouldn't base grind without addressing the bumps first. I see. Thanks for that description. In this case, I guess the culprit might have been ice/water in the insert when tightening the plate on the mountain. Noticed it was loose half way through the day (a couple of times now I think of it) so cranked tight while I was out on the mountain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 4 hours ago, lowrider said: they are the little nuts that used to hold binders together or racks of parts manuals. A.K.A. 'sex bolts'. Cool tips on the slow pressure! I'll try that next time. Need to find a C-clamp that'll span 1/2 a board width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Bessey clamps would work well. Depending on board width and jaw design, a vice might also do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Actually, ignore this message. Didn't clamp for long enough. Edited January 9, 2019 by daveo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2019 Fixed Thanks everyone. Was really easy. Just clamped it up like suggested- piece of wood on underside and piece of metal on the dimple. I measured the height of the dimples and the worst one was actually 0.23mm. Well, if I still remember how to do basic trig, that is. Otherwise it might have been 23km. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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