skier_turn_boarder Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 Accidentally discovered this forum and hardboot snowboarding. Looks really cool and fun! I have been skiing for around 10 years now, in my mid-40's (I know, pretty late to the snow sport scene). I can ski reasonably well now, can handle black runs, not too afraid of icy conditions, but still cannot get the hang of skiing mogul what not. When I started about 10 years ago, I decided to go with skiing and not snowboarding because (don't laugh) facing square to downhill and not sideways just feel so much more natural too me. If I am not mistaken, alpine snowboarding, with stance angle as high as 60 agree, the facing square to downhill part is similar to skiing, plus all the carving fun. My question is, is starting in mid 40s too late to learn hard-boot snowboarding? I don't see resorts offering hard-boot classes, so should I start with softboots classes? But then I have to face sideways...and have to see my stuff and get new set of hardboot equipment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 I know a number of Excellent HB Carvers that started in their mid 60's...so Yea, You Can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 Softboots can be turned up to ~30 degrees forward without a huge loss... Typically only takes a screwdriver. (Yeah, yeah rotate the highbacks. Google it before the SB crowd kills me.) It's not easy to get in to Hardbooting... But you never know who might be near you and be willing to help. It's really down to your desire. Good luck and welcome to ASB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, skier_turn_boarder said: Accidentally discovered this forum and hardboot snowboarding. Looks really cool and fun! I have been skiing for around 10 years now, in my mid-40's (I know, pretty late to the snow sport scene). I can ski reasonably well now, can handle black runs, not too afraid of icy conditions, but still cannot get the hang of skiing mogul what not. When I started about 10 years ago, I decided to go with skiing and not snowboarding because (don't laugh) facing square to downhill and not sideways just feel so much more natural too me. If I am not mistaken, alpine snowboarding, with stance angle as high as 60 agree, the facing square to downhill part is similar to skiing, plus all the carving fun. My question is, is starting in mid 40s too late to learn hard-boot snowboarding? I don't see resorts offering hard-boot classes, so should I start with softboots classes? But then I have to face sideways...and have to see my stuff and get new set of hardboot equipment... Your route to here matches mine, except I took the softies lesson, but not before I'd rotated my soft bindings to somewhere in the mid 40's. That earned me some comments from my first lesson instructor. But I'd already decided I wanted to carve my turns rather than kick the tail of my board around. There weren't any more. I started hard booting in New Zealand at age 49, having been on slalom skateboards from my teens and skis from my twenties. Took myself to the top of the beginners slope and learned how to basically manoeuvre esp. braking and skidded turns, principles not really that different from skiing. Fell over a lot, laughed a lot, had a heap of fun enjoying the challenge of learning and progressing. Ten years on I'm still learning, though I can now make cleanly carved turns that cause truckloads of dopamine release in the pleasure centres of my brain. I've had the apparently compulsory arm/hand injury that nearly all 40+ first time snowboarders get. I've met in person a whole lot of really nice people through this website and travelled to some amazing places in search of my "fix". As an ex-skier you will probably feel more comfortable setting your bindings to somewhere between 55-65 degrees. It will likely seem more natural to tilt your board similarly to how you tilted your skis, rather than as the ex-softboot boarders do out of their heels and toes. Don't buy new gear until you've been bitten by the bug. If it bites, it will bite very deep. This forum is testament to the carving obsession/madness. Study up on boots, bindings and boards, then use the For Sale section here for generally very reliable sellers. Stay away from race boards until you've found your feet. Something freecarve'ish in the 165-175 cm range and with moderate sidecut radius, certainly not more than 14 metres. Check out the Ride Board for your area to try and find a local carver(s). You will make far faster progress with a buddy. I have one who made some crucial suggestions early on. Check out YouTube for an enormous range of carving snowboard, Alpine, hardboot videos. Look for smooth fluid style. You could do far worse than look out for Johnasmo's videos. "Carving the Black" is a standout amongst many great ones. Bottom line: To start carving snowboarding straight off from skiing in your late 40s without softboot lessons is possible. As long as you protect your hands/wrists/forearms from the inevitable falls you should have a lot of fun trying. People here are generous with their time and gear. Find and ride with your local carvers. PS: If I was able to reach back 10 years and tell myself 1 thing it would be this. When you, as an ex skier, are ready to start making your first attempts at carved snowboard turns, perhaps doing some of the exercises in the Tech section of the website, and start to slide down the beginners slope - Balance front to back, side to side, over the balls of both feet. Gently lean in the direction you want to go, remaining balanced over that side of the balls of your feet. Look to where you want to go. FEEL your edge bite, feel it with the incredibly densely innervated soles of your feet. Let your board do what it was designed to do. At the beginning this will be enough. ------- A carved turn, on board or skis, is actually a very simple thing. The rider tilts the tool, stays balanced over its' edge, and lets the sidecut and edge bend do exactly what they were designed to do. You don't know me. This is a short video of my riding from 2015. My buddy says I've got better since then. https://vimeo.com/128358242 Edited January 5, 2019 by SunSurfer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuxdiesel Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 I spent more than a decade teaching skiers how to snowboard in their ski boots on moderate angle boards (22-24ish waists, so 45 degree bindings). Some picked it up quite well, but most had a much longer learning curve due to the lack of ability to skid turns with any fluidity. Obviously skidding turns is not the ultimate goal on an alpine board, but it is an invaluable skill. I'm not sure what the modern school of thought is, but taking a few lessons or spending a few days on an all-mountain direction board with moderate angles (30-35?) might be worth it. Boards like this can be picked up used cheaply, whereas hardboot stuff not so much. I'm in my mid-50's now, and 4 decades of alpine skiing, hard boot snowboarding, telemark skiing and even tele-boarding has me in a place where a soft boot style carving board is my go to ride. Too bad most of them are so expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAlexander Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) In 2000 , I did my first year of approx. 35 days on soft boots, and was carving with softs at the end of the season. All of the following years have been on hardboots/alpineboard. After that first year on soft, there still was a learn curve for me, to go to hardboots/alpineboard. Am glad I did it this way, and am not sure I would want to start day one boarding on hardboots. In the very least, try some rental or borrow softboot gear for your first day on a board, to get a better idea of what you are in for. It is never too late, Know a guy who skied a lot and started hardboots/alpineboard at 64 and still rips at 84. Edited January 5, 2019 by RobertAlexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 I think it'd be detrimental for a skier to go to softboots before hardboots. Skiing is more akin to hardbooting that softbooting is, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 Welcome! We are all just a little bit biased here As Warren Miller said "If you don't do it this year; you will be one year old when you do". It's not an easy journey for me... but total worth it. I started with softbooting and it still took some time to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, pow4ever said: We are all just a little bit biased here We are not! It is mere fact that hardboots are better than everything for everything. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skier_turn_boarder Posted January 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 10 hours ago, SunSurfer said: Your route to here matches mine, except I took the softies lesson, but not before I'd rotated my soft bindings to somewhere in the mid 40's. That earned me some comments from my first lesson instructor. But I'd already decided I wanted to carve my turns rather than kick the tail of my board around. There weren't any more. I started hard booting in New Zealand at age 49, having been on slalom skateboards from my teens and skis from my twenties. Took myself to the top of the beginners slope and learned how to basically manoeuvre esp. braking and skidded turns, principles not really that different from skiing. Fell over a lot, laughed a lot, had a heap of fun enjoying the challenge of learning and progressing. Ten years on I'm still learning, though I can now make cleanly carved turns that cause truckloads of dopamine release in the pleasure centres of my brain. I've had the apparently compulsory arm/hand injury that nearly all 40+ first time snowboarders get. I've met in person a whole lot of really nice people through this website and travelled to some amazing places in search of my "fix". As an ex-skier you will probably feel more comfortable setting your bindings to somewhere between 55-65 degrees. It will likely seem more natural to tilt your board similarly to how you tilted your skis, rather than as the ex-softboot boarders do out of their heels and toes. Don't buy new gear until you've been bitten by the bug. If it bites, it will bite very deep. This forum is testament to the carving obsession/madness. Study up on boots, bindings and boards, then use the For Sale section here for generally very reliable sellers. Stay away from race boards until you've found your feet. Something freecarve'ish in the 165-175 cm range and with moderate sidecut radius, certainly not more than 14 metres. Check out the Ride Board for your area to try and find a local carver(s). You will make far faster progress with a buddy. I have one who made some crucial suggestions early on. Check out YouTube for an enormous range of carving snowboard, Alpine, hardboot videos. Look for smooth fluid style. You could do far worse than look out for Johnasmo's videos. "Carving the Black" is a standout amongst many great ones. Bottom line: To start carving snowboarding straight off from skiing in your late 40s without softboot lessons is possible. As long as you protect your hands/wrists/forearms from the inevitable falls you should have a lot of fun trying. People here are generous with their time and gear. Find and ride with your local carvers. PS: If I was able to reach back 10 years and tell myself 1 thing it would be this. When you, as an ex skier, are ready to start making your first attempts at carved snowboard turns, perhaps doing some of the exercises in the Tech section of the website, and start to slide down the beginners slope - Balance front to back, side to side, over the balls of both feet. Gently lean in the direction you want to go, remaining balanced over that side of the balls of your feet. Look to where you want to go. FEEL your edge bite, feel it with the incredibly densely innervated soles of your feet. Let your board do what it was designed to do. At the beginning this will be enough. ------- A carved turn, on board or skis, is actually a very simple thing. The rider tilts the tool, stays balanced over its' edge, and lets the sidecut and edge bend do exactly what they were designed to do. You don't know me. This is a short video of my riding from 2015. My buddy says I've got better since then. https://vimeo.com/128358242 Wow, heaps of great advice and glad to find someone having so much fun doing skiing first and then mid-way started trying hardboot snowboarding. After reading through the replies, my plan right now is to start with softboot snowboard classes first, then ride with my friends in softboot setup, in a somewhat high angle set up (30 degree-ish?). I feel this could be a sweet middle ground, rather than jumping right into hardbooting. Simply because there are so much more softboot resources around (classes, buddies already know how to snowboard, rentals). The mention of compulsory arm/hand injury gives me giggles, figure I'd better stock up butt pads, wrist-guards whatever necessary to get prepared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 Find the Video thread "Softboot carving worth watching". Hard boots are not essential for carving well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, SunSurfer said: Find the Video thread "Softboot carving worth watching". Hard boots are not essential for carving well. And duck foot soft boots are not essential to surf pow Edited January 5, 2019 by b0ardski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertAlexander Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Best way to fall is tuck and roll. Best way to get the feel of boards for a first timer, get some one in boots/shoes, down hill from you and that person stands facing you, you are facing them, hold hands and they pull you down hill as you apply braking edge and get used to it. Go left and right, after a short time, that person stands to your side and only holds one hand. You will get the feel of this quickly, then practice this alone, a lot. It is called falling leaf drill. After some time, you will be doing a left turn , then a right, then eventually link a turn. There is your lesson. This all starts on the bunny hill. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 12 hours ago, daveo said: I think it'd be detrimental for a skier to go to softboots before hardboots. Skiing is more akin to hardbooting that softbooting is, in my opinion. Good skiing is akin to good hardbooting, both of which can be a little hard to come by sometimes. Good softbooting is very similar to hardbooting, unless you're doing one or both incorrectly. Too many skiers have been convinced to constantly lean on the boot plastic. That's not a good plan if one would like to succeed on the hardboots, particularly at the entry level. ->On account of hardboots being rather reactive, novices being somewhat klutzy; and gravity, momentum, et al refusing to take a lunch break. Softboots, generally being less supportive/obstructive, can help develop 'sole of the foot' sensitivity, thereby serving as a palate cleanser between the skiing appetizer, and the hardbooting entrée. E.g., a number of years ago, we held a staff cross training exercise, whereby volunteers from the ski teaching staff would engage in an introductory XC skate session. In low-cut boots, most were about as agile as a hog on ice. And that was without actually trying to go anywhere. Gradually they began to find their feet, and I no longer had to avert my gaze in horror. Days later, some allowed that the exercise had brought a little more awareness to their usual activities, and insight into how they might better stand on the skis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 8 hours ago, b0ardski said: And duck foot soft boots are not essential to surf pow I surf pow in hardboots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 I'm a bit late to the party... If you ended up starting on hard boots, just imagine your front boot as the toes of your ski boot, rear boot as the heel of the same ski boot, and ski your new single ski(board). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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