MK and Angry Comparison?

[Corey]

First MK (but not really an MK because it's tweaked) impressions: 

1. Hey, how's your cardio/strength? You're going to make a lot of turns per mile. 

2. It'll turn so tight that I heard puzzled noises from people on the chair a few times. "Whaa?" "Didyousee?" etc. 

3. Hearing protection is recommended if it's icy. Holy crap this thing is loud. 

4. Such a wild ride! Even just simple edge changes on a run in/out are fun. Gives back so much energy that you need a plan for the next turn before you start the current one. 

5. It has an upper speed limit where it's not really carving any more. That speed is not very fast either.  It'll still make big turns, but you can tell it's just skidding/slarving as the G-force drops way down. Slow down and enjoy super aggressive turns at high G's. Use a different board if you want to be the fastest person on the hill. 

6. It's very raw and unbridled. If a metal board is a Corvette, this is a Formula car with a very stiff suspension. I knew exactly what the board was doing at every moment. That feedback can be a bit overwhelming at times. 

7. It's a heavy little bugger. This MK 164x20 is about the same weight as my Coiler EC 175x22. Doesn't really matter, just an observation. 

8. The nose of this 20cm MK is the same width as the nose on my 22cm Coiler EC. LOL! 

I can't tell the difference between the 18 cm wide demo and this 20 cm. The MK changes edges with a thought anyway, so I'd rather have binding angles I'm more comfortable with. Granted, I rode the two boards a month apart and with different conditions, so it's not a good test. I don't feel like I'm missing anything with a wider waist. 

I didn't hop on the Coiler Angry to do a proper back-to-back test. Likely Saturday. I was just having fun bonding with this board today. The MK will stay in my quiver for a long time now. It won't come out every day, but pretty often! 

[barryj]

4 minutes ago, Corey said:

this is a Formula car with a very stiff suspension

Thanks so much Corey! 

Hmm?..... so in car speak, where's would you say  that puts the Angry?  ...and where would, say a Oxess 162 SL  or Kessler 162 SL line up in this drag race??     

Looking forward to  a back to back test!

[daveo]

1 hour ago, Corey said:

It won't come out every day, but pretty often! 

What %age of days would you take it out? 

[Pokolikrat]

Don'take me wrong, I have 160 Angry but the simplest comparison I can come with, Mk exciting , Angry boring  ride.

I ride Angry lot, only terraing I did not like it is on the steep moguls, (climax at Mammoth)I found front of the board be rather soft for me in these conditions, but I did not have chance to ride MK in the same conditions.

[jim_s]

13 hours ago, Corey said:

First MK (but not really an MK because it's tweaked) impressions: 

1. Hey, how's your cardio/strength? You're going to make a lot of turns per mile. 

2. It'll turn so tight that I heard puzzled noises from people on the chair a few times. "Whaa?" "Didyousee?" etc. 

3. Hearing protection is recommended if it's icy. Holy crap this thing is loud. 

4. Such a wild ride! Even just simple edge changes on a run in/out are fun. Gives back so much energy that you need a plan for the next turn before you start the current one. 

5. It has an upper speed limit where it's not really carving any more. That speed is not very fast either.  It'll still make big turns, but you can tell it's just skidding/slarving as the G-force drops way down. Slow down and enjoy super aggressive turns at high G's. Use a different board if you want to be the fastest person on the hill. 

6. It's very raw and unbridled. If a metal board is a Corvette, this is a Formula car with a very stiff suspension. I knew exactly what the board was doing at every moment. That feedback can be a bit overwhelming at times. 

7. It's a heavy little bugger. This MK 164x20 is about the same weight as my Coiler EC 175x22. Doesn't really matter, just an observation. 

8. The nose of this 20cm MK is the same width as the nose on my 22cm Coiler EC. LOL! 

I can't tell the difference between the 18 cm wide demo and this 20 cm. The MK changes edges with a thought anyway, so I'd rather have binding angles I'm more comfortable with. Granted, I rode the two boards a month apart and with different conditions, so it's not a good test. I don't feel like I'm missing anything with a wider waist. 

I didn't hop on the Coiler Angry to do a proper back-to-back test. Likely Saturday. I was just having fun bonding with this board today. The MK will stay in my quiver for a long time now. It won't come out every day, but pretty often! 

@Corey - your 'big brother' MK sounds pretty much exactly like the stock MK! (I like #3 - I call it the 'MK Growl' - it almost sounds like your skidding, but there's no skidding involved, just a razor line left behind! :-)

You didn't mention edge hold (aside from the standard tooth-pullingly-tight turns) - does Big Bro rail on ice like the regular MK does? How about torsion - did you notice any different and/or good/bad effects of torsion due to the width increase?

It really seems that Sean has nailed it, in terms of the MK construction, and the effects thereof.

Thanks a bunch for posting the info!

[barryj]

13 minutes ago, jim_s said:

It won't come out every day, but pretty often! 

Corey....... is this comment a reference to the physical and mental strain/drain this beast takes to stay on top of it?   Do you think you could/would  last all day on it...or  half  day and you'd be ready for a change?

Jim's Comment about #3 edge hold on ice got me thinking................  the only place you see ice in CA is what ya get in your apres-ski cocktail!   How would a MK react in hero snow??  Seems like bringing a Bazooka to a gun fight!

[jim_s]

I haven't yet had the chance to ride my MK in full-on hero snow, but my experience has been that in softer stuff, you have to take it a little bit easier on the nose, otherwise it can wash out, if you overpower it. (Whereas on harder snow, you can load up the nose a fair bit, you just gotta be prepared to deal with the consequences of being bold. :-)

Local hill got 53" of snow this week, and heading up there tonight, so will hopefully get more opportunity to try it out in nicer conditions!

The funny thing is, the MK growls in all conditions that I've tried it in thus far. Even in softer snow, it sounds like you're grinding ice while you're on edge.

Edited March 16, 2018 by jim_s

[Corey]

10 hours ago, barryj said:

Corey....... is this comment a reference to the physical and mental strain/drain this beast takes to stay on top of it?   Do you think you could/would  last all day on it...or  half  day and you'd be ready for a change?

A little bit of that, a little bit of not wanting to turn that tight all day. I had a good day on the bigger boards at Indianhead today, but I started the day more tired than I was on the 7th day in Aspen. I need to throttle it back when on the MK. 

10 hours ago, jim_s said:

(Whereas on harder snow, you can load up the nose a fair bit, you just gotta be prepared to deal with the consequences of being bold. :-)

Haha, well stated! 

[Corey]

Regarding how much I'll use the MK: when conditions are right (mellow runs, feeling like going slower, etc.) I'll take this one out first. Though I'm renaming it the Muscle Killer as I was feeling rough since spending 3/4 of a day on it. I'm going to dial back the intensity a bit today. 

I didn't get to ride the demo MK on ice in Aspen, so no comparison from me. My 12cm-wide Skwal USA is pretty fun on icy snow, but is that the width or the board design?

Torsion differences? I have no idea. I lean the board over and it turns. I push on it and it turns even tighter. LOL! 

[Corey]

The conditions: Spirit Mountain near Duluth. It was well above freezing the day before and then froze hard overnight after grooming. This let me ride ice in the early runs and mashed potato slush the rest of the day. 

Set up: Identical angles and stance width, both centered on the insert pattern. Both with TD3 SW SI bindings yellow E-rings, blue/yellow SW pads. 

Angry: This board is a little over 4 years old so I don't know if Bruce has improved or changed things since but it's still an awesome ride. A more relaxed ride than the MK. Takes less energy to make the same turn, but also gives less energy back at the end of the turn. Feels very stable and predictable, but still turns insanely tight if you ask it. Like hanging out with a good friend. 

MK: Turns slightly tighter than Angry when pushed hard. Takes more energy for a given turn shape. Requires dramatically more effort for the same turn as the Angry on hard ice surfaces. Transmits a lot of energy back into the rider from the snow surface. Exciting ride because of that energy needed/received. It makes my Bomber Sidewinder bindings feel like rigidly-mounted Catek bindings. Frankly it makes my knees hurt in ways I haven't felt in many years from all the vibrations on ice. No such problems on transition snow and slush. Like hanging out with that friend that's a little too crazy but is still fun to be with. 

These two boards are very similar in function but yet have very different personalities. I'm pretty privileged to have two boards that are so similar. Neither one will come out unless I want to (have to) play on mellow or narrow runs. 

If I'm feeling very energetic I'll take out the MK, but if I'm feeling mellow I'll take out the Angry. The Coiler Angry wins for me on hard ice just because it is much easier on your body while taking less effort from the rider. 

[Corey]

The contestants resting between runs:

[daveo]

Sounds you like really like that Angrry. Lucky you!

[bigwavedave]

I got to ride Cory's MK on Thursday. I took maybe 4 runs. There was a rough ice base under a slushy groom, so it was a rough ride when carving hard. The MK rode like everyone says (tight turns, edge hold etc), including the noisy ride─but I think that's what you should expect from an all glass (no metal) board. I still have a couple of glass boards and I'm always surprised at the noise when I get on one of them.

The one thing I couldn't understand was why my quads felt so worked at the end of a 2 min run. So, Muscle Killer is apropo. I wasn't aware that I was working harder, but I was happy to get back on my Coiler 165 SL and make similar turns with less effort.  The qualification here is that the conditions were not ideal for a fair evaluation of this or any board's overall performance, it's just my 2 cents. 

I also got to ride Cory's 163 Donek Rev (ptex topped) yesterday in similar conditions. So, so smooth and not as much work. I would love one of these with a narrower range scr, like 8½-10 to make it easier to complete turns.

Never got around to trying Cory's Angrry, but It sounds liket it might be similar to my above mentioned SL 165.

[Erik J]

Update.

I don't like the Angry for pond crossing. The rounded tail doesn't track through the water well and washes out when turning hard over water.

The MK's square tail tracks nice and clean through the water and allows "carved" turns which in turn dump a crapton of water on anyone within 20'. Which is really fun, especially when their phone is in their hand. 

[Corey]

Haha, now that's a surprisingly specific review! 

[Corey]

I spent a bunch more time on the MK over the last two days. The hype is real. 

The snow was very firm, but not ice. While the MK was pretty hard on the knees on ice, it ate these conditions up! So much fun! The upper speed limit went up considerably, but it definitely was happier at lower speeds. 

The MK has a small sweet spot for weight. If you get too far forward the nose washes into a sliding carve with a 3"-wide trench. Too far back and the tail washes and scrubs a lot of speed. But if you get it right and feed the board nicely through the turn - it's glorious. I haven't been on any other board that is as rewarding (or punishing) of correct timing of weight shifts as well. I got put into the back seat a few times with windmill arms flailing about when I fed the board forward too early. 

At low speeds, you can feel the tail moving opposite the turn direction. Rather like a skateboard where the rear truck swings the wheels out. Neat! 

I played around with switch carving (the Norm exercise) on green runs. The tight sidecut meant you could do this at much lower speeds than my bigger boards. Slower = less scary. 

You can build up lots of energy with what some call the "Bomber" style of turns; where you are tall in transitions and compressed at the apex. Accidental air in transitions is often on the menu with that riding style! It was less pleased with push-pull style unless going slow. That's probably a user problem, admittedly. 

I rode the MK for most of the day today. It's a real cardio test, but is so engaging that it's worth it. I was breathing hard at the bottom of every run. 

When wouldn't I ride the MK?

- When riding with others.  I like to slow down and cover a lot more ground than usual just with the sheer number of turns. 

- True ice. It really beat up my knees on ice. I'd rather be on my damp metal Coiler Angry or the Donek Rev 163 in those conditions. 

I thought a bunch about when you'd pick a short vs. long board. If you have boring terrain, a short board like the MK or Angry brings some excitement. 

Disclaimer: I'm a G-force junkie that likes to finish turns. I like to turn as tight as possible for the conditions/speed/etc. 

[jim_s]

23 minutes ago, Corey said:

The MK has a small sweet spot for weight. If you get too far forward the nose washes into a sliding carve with a 3"-wide trench. Too far back and the tail washes and scrubs a lot of speed. But if you get it right and feed the board nicely through the turn - it's glorious. I haven't been on any other board that is as rewarding (or punishing) of correct timing of weight shifts as well. I got put into the back seat a few times with windmill arms flailing about when I fed the board forward too early.

...

I rode the MK for most of the day today. It's a real cardio test, but is so engaging that it's worth it. I was breathing hard at the bottom of every run. 

...

Disclaimer: I'm a G-force junkie that likes to finish turns. I like to turn as tight as possible for the conditions/speed/etc. 

*SPOT ON* assessment!!

Its a demanding little beast - in terms of technique, balance, subtlety and energy expenditure, but SO DAMN WORTH IT!!  

[jburk]

25 minutes ago, jim_s said:

Its a demanding little beast - in terms of technique, balance, subtlety and energy expenditure, but SO DAMN WORTH IT

Funny.  I bought a Kessler 162 for these very same reasons; I wanted a board that would let me know in no uncertain terms when I wasn't spot-on, so I could speed up the learning curve.  Turns out, the Kessler will let me do just about anything (haven't gotten back-seated yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time) and not only get away with it, it makes me look 5x better than I am.  Granted, it takes more exertion than my other board, but it's like the thing watches out for me and hides my mistakes and poor technique.  Until I get tired...

Now I'm dying to get hold of an MK for a day and see if anything I've learned on the Kessler transfers over.  Probably in for a rude awakening.

 

 

 

[jim_s]

11 hours ago, jburk said:

Now I'm dying to get hold of an MK for a day and see if anything I've learned on the Kessler transfers over.  Probably in for a rude awakening.

 

 

 

Nah, you'd have no problems. Anyone with carving experience can do it, its just a narrower range of balance than many are used to. It takes a little exploration to find those bounds, and then its just like normal riding, just a little more sensitive, and at a bit of a more frantic pace.  

Anyone can ride it, but it seems that not everyone appreciates its finer points!

Edited April 1, 2018 by jim_s

[Corey]

Yeah, the MK is pretty much the opposite of a race board. Lively and unforgiving, but a wild ride when you treat it right. It took me a while to speak it's language. 

Even though you're going slow, everything happens real fast. I'm not certain that I'm the one picking the time to change directions every time. 

Hmm, sounds like a college dating experience...

[Jack M]

A number of times over the years, I will demo a board at the ECES at Stratton and fall in love with it.  I'll order one for myself, get it to my home resort (Sugarloaf) and just think "huh... I don't love this".  This happened to me with my Angrry-derived Coiler 163, and the MK.  It even happened to me with an original Madd 158. I borrowed Shaggy's at Stratton and it was a dream.  I then bought Fin's original 158 and just didn't love it at Sugarloaf.  I just like a bit longer radius I guess.  Two runs on the MK and I've done a thousand turns and I'm cooked.  I loved my Proteus 163 (10.5m) and my current "short" board is a Kessler 168 (8-12m they say) which I'm loving.  I think the forthcoming MK 170-something will be a great board.  I rode workshop7's custom MK-derived 172 and it seemed like a great preview.

[Corey]

Sadly, that's been my Donek story so far. Three different boards that I loved in Aspen and then didn't like at home. But the Rev 163 and the MK have bucked that trend completely! 

I've learned that I like a softer flex in Donek than suggested for my weight, and about standard flex for Coiler. Expensive lesson, but I've caught on now. 

[workshop7]

3 hours ago, Corey said:

Sadly, that's been my Donek story so far. Three different boards that I loved in Aspen and then didn't like at home.

Corey,

Are you keeping your Secret?

Dave

[Corey]

2 hours ago, workshop7 said:

Corey,

Are you keeping your Secret?

Dave

No, already gone. 

I'd totally try another but built for someone about 20 lbs lighter than me. 

[workshop7]

^ Would you keep the same SCR?

Edited April 1, 2018 by workshop7