Style or Technique?

[Chouinard]

After three seasons in hard boots I am at a fork in the road. I am drawn toward the second clip. Is it a straight shot there or is it the maturation of the first?

https://youtu.be/VNOwTgOP8Rs

Credits go to Cory Dyck, Larry Castruita and Mike Doyle and of course Donek for the 1st video clip.

[BlueB]

All 3 riders use very similar technique. Every one of them has own style. Even when you look at Lary and Mike, who are basically matching each other's turns and are of the same "school", you'll notice stylistic differences. 

Learn all techniques and don't worry about style. It's the personal touch we (mostly) unintentionally add to the technique. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by BlueB

[Corey]

I'm definitely more abrupt! I spend a fair amount of mental energy towards minimizing unnecessary movement in the turn, but I'm also very eager to get into the next turn. 

I think they were filming/producing carving videos before I was even snowboarding! They're very smooth! 

I'm with BlueB - learn it all and eventually your style will come out. Of course, you can steer it one way or another with your efforts, but it's super hard to ride exactly like someone else. 

[1xsculler]

So there is my new most inspirational video.

Hard to see much on the second half but my goal is to board like Corey does in the 1st half.

I'll view it often every time I start out for the morning and at my 10:15 am wine break.

Thanks for sharing the vid.

[softbootsurfer]

Style is Technique, yes that's True for some 

[BlueB]

3 hours ago, softbootsurfer said:

Style is Technique, yes that's True for some 

Care to share? 

[softbootsurfer]

IMO and I am entitled to have one...Technique is turn left or turn right

Style is Technique with ones personal expression added, nothing more to say...we all are reflections of what we perceive the "Style" is, of what WE think it should be...after 33 years I can say I have seen many come and emulate the crew here at Milkland and the Style that predominated here...is it the "Style" yes to those who use it...here is some more of Mike and Joey and Larry with different views than above...thanks Cliff for the use of your Vid. here

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by softbootsurfer

[Neil Gendzwill]

Style is definitely a personal thing. I could never look like Corey does in that video, largely because I could not force myself to wear that jacket. 

[Corey]

55 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

I could never look like Corey does in that video, largely because I could not force myself to wear that jacket. 

:p

LOL!

[BlueB]

On 4/5/2017 at 3:55 PM, softbootsurfer said:

Style is Technique with ones personal expression added, nothing more to say...

 

On 4/4/2017 at 7:14 PM, BlueB said:

It's the personal touch we (mostly) unintentionally add to the technique. 

So, we basically agree that style is not technique. 

 

On 4/5/2017 at 3:55 PM, softbootsurfer said:

Technique is turn left or turn right

Ummm... no. Turning is the goal and outcome. We get to turn by using techniques. While technique is a sequence and/or combination of moves required to manipulate the board. 

Style on the other hand, can be either, or combination of: 

1) The amount and prominence of various technical components we use to perform a technique; 

2) Our preference for a specific technique in general, or in specific situations; 

3) The superficial components (the add-ons) we use. 

...and then, of course, Corey's jacket ;) 

Edited April 7, 2017 by BlueB

[ursle]

The only thing that matters is exactly how much the board is turned on edge(ignoring extreme carving), differing body types, injuries will give style...and technique depends upon conditions and terrain. But the ability to tip the board higher, skill

Edited April 6, 2017 by ursle

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

Style is, a form of derivative Technique. Use correct, but 'Pure' "Technique', and you look a bit 'robotic', or staid in overall body poise. I've seen "PSIA" Skiers do this to themselves again and again trying to conform to the "Ideal" form that was in SUE's HEAD... Yeah, luck with THAT! Steve Sherman probably was the best victim of that mental abuse. Bullying, done by prescription on Skis against good skiers.And, that bullying came from a smallish women who couldn't ski 3/4's of what she advocated?!  Not a FAN!

So, I decided in '92 to not quite ride as demanded by the ELITE. Why? Well, Hell, by THEN, I had been on Snowboard 14 Years. Frack Them!! 

Riders like Graham, Kelly, Bauer, Nerva, Jose, Karol, Heingartner, the Coghlans, Kidwell, Sanders, Seaone, Dowd, Zellers (x2),Burt, and Barfoot himself had made MY MIND UP as to just what 'STYLE' was, and how it intersected with "technique"...

Draw your own conclusions , but, know that this fight is very old. If you're 'stylish' while getting your specific move done right, then, you Nailed the Technique! If you managed to run a race course fast with great form and Technique, Great, You STYLED IT! 

It is NOT more COMPLICATED than that, despite SUE's Protestations...

Short, chubby chicks, should NOT be in charge of all of Ski-thought-instruction [this is not a sexist, racist, nor weight-compared comment!], unless they have also surfed powder on a snowboard... My Backhill is sitting, ready-to-go, as it has been since '80.

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Eric Brammer aka PSR

[Neil Gendzwill]

Who is Sue and what does her height and weight have to do with anything? And yeah, when you make a statement like that you are being sexist despite your protestations. 

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

Sorry, Neil, so much went on right Over your head, in the day... Sue, she CONTROLLED PSIA, thus, any Rider who wished to excel, and, thus, be legally able to teach the Rest Of You of how IT'S DONE... Gordon Robbins even had to deal with this, as did , much later, even Neville Burt, Brian Spear, so, we all came to the realization that this one (and a few collabberators) Individual had grasped control of the Progression for RIDING, based on her best PSIA Ski-Model for turning performance! Sorry, but, even YOU had exceeded that (albeit, in 'turtle mode?)by a decent good bit! So,, I gave up trying to fix this. Carve on, limply, please, as not to excite the AASI/PSIA with stuff like gettin' low, nor "hands-on-the-snow: style.. It's just NOT KOSHER, So, Stop It!!! Already!! Stoppit!!!  Sue did NOT APPROVE of this ADVANCE in Ideals, I'm Sure of it!! STOPPP!!!!!

 

[Neil Gendzwill]

Not sure how this turned into a critique of my riding, which you have never seen.  

[pow4ever]

IMHO:

Technique are fundamental building block of what we do.
angulation, rotation, toe/heel side turn, balance and etc.

Style is executing series of techniques in a dynamic fashion.

In my observation:  
competent carver vs "jaw dropping good" carver
Is the mastery of putting techniques to work in a fluid, rhythmic and dynamic(sometime explosive and powerful) style.
static vs dynamic:
I lift: push, pull, twist, squat, dead lift, lunges are the 6 major "movement/technique" that is relative easy to master.
Style:   Olympic lift put everything together and it's difficult to do/master.  The transition minutia are key.

see Fin's take on style:  FWIW

 

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

12 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

Not sure how this turned into a critique of my riding, which you have never seen.

I actually wasn't trying to 'aim' this at You... I have only seen snippets of your riding, which is where the 'turtle' comment came from. But, in any case, you're Canadian, so, AASI's riding model has no bearing. You definitely EXCEED the progression for carved turns, as do most who post here. As for style, most also do not ride using the techniques expounded by AASI, and thus, most have a level of "style" that's simply unacknowledged by the Instructors own institution.

So, my apologies, Neil.

[Neil Gendzwill]

My style comes from being largely self-taught and my other experiences as skater and skier. I have a ways to go before I carve as well as the best here. But nobody has ever accused me of riding slow before... my wife would be thrilled, I tend to worry her. 

[slopestar]

My 2¢.

Dynamic vs Fluid

I love dynamic riding styles. Moving with the terrain and charging a bit is my favorite. Fluid styles seem more patient and rehearsed. If you can do both and keep it smooth... then you have style. And fortunately, ours are all a bit different??

 

[QReuCk]

Ah the endless style vs technique debate... I am of the already expressed opinion that technique is a set of basic moves we put together to achieve a goal, which can be for instance transitionning from one edge to the other and running the turn without skidding. Style would be IMVHO a mix of the choices we make in what order and how much we apply these components, and a set of not strictly necessary moves or postures we add to the basic technique. In that sense style can interfere with technique by requiring or allowing to slightly modify the choice, order and amplitude of technique components to achieve a same goal. And thats fine if you seek maximum enjoyment instead of maximum efficiency or performance.

About the teaching governing body, it was even worst in France I believe. Even having the write to teach professionally until very recently required you do "technical test"... on skis.

[1xsculler]

Board on edge, i. e. 45*? Is my goal and where it's at for me with no sitting on the toilet or knees pointing up on heelside. 

Just my $0.02 and it's worth even less.

I'm committed, come hell or high water!

[MikeC]

Since when does one guy dictate how alpine riding should look?

 

Bit of a ridiculous statement if you ask me.  The day I care what you think of my riding style is the day I dry my boots for good.

[1xsculler]

I  doubt anybody pays any attention but I want to be clear that I am in no position to criticise anybody's  riding style, technique or anything else. I have my hands full trying to figure this sport out for myself.  It will be a bit sad but also like getting out of jail after April 23rd when my season ends and what a fun and great one it has been. I haven't had this much Mt. fun since I  was skiing 50 days a year during and after college.

Thanks to ALL of you Bombers for indulging many of my stupid questions and comments.  I'll be back next year and will throw out a little more BS before thus year is over.

[SunSurfer]

9 hours ago, 1xsculler said:

 I have my hands full trying to figure this sport out for myself.  It will be a bit sad but also like getting out of jail after April 23rd when my season ends and what a fun and great one it has been. I haven't had this much Mt. fun since I  was skiing 50 days a year during and after college.

Thanks to ALL of you Bombers for indulging many of my stupid questions and comments.  I'll be back next year and will throw out a little more BS before thus year is over.

Technique will get you onto your edge, and as technique improves you will stay on edge on steeper and steeper slopes. As technique improves so one's riding becomes more efficient, less forced and awkward, and more graceful. And  YOUR style will emerge. 

But all along the way, it should be fun.