Board riding

[energyrail]

These guys rock, like Rob said the heel side is amazing.

But my questions are, How wide are these boards? And what size feet do they have?

any time I try what their doing, I just dig something in and down I go. But I don't ride soft often enough to find the max edge angle I can achieve without booting out.

[softbootsurfer]

Very very very nice riding but all I saw was another confirmation that duck stance (NOT softboots) is the anathema to carving, biomechanically it just isn't natural regardless of all the hand waving, maximum knee flexion, and torso bending, the balance is not there.

BTW, let's see duck stance carving on steep uneven frozen or icy snow and not on empty morning fluffy corduroy. That's where the balance issues will immediately take over.

Having seen really Good duck stance Carving in All kinds of conditions...I just can't agree with this either...I started our Son snowboarding when he was 8 in 1985, after skiing for 4 years. I started him with an alpine stance as I wanted him to surf or carve with me :) We had many days together carving the Grooom, but after 4 years, he converted to a Duck stance, he was raised on a Skateboard as well, and being young he wanted to Jump and try all the Fakie stuff :o his +18 - 6 angles have never hindered his ability to be both powerfully efficient and graceful...He use to sneak up behind me and do beautiful fluid Carves Goofy and then Flip around Fakie and mimmick my regular stance Carves... he has a relaxed, balanced and powerful Style...nor does he Carve like the Style portrayed in the Video that started this thread...so again generalizations are just that and do not apply across the Board. He has Surfing, Skating and Karate influences built into his Style with 25 years of practice at the time of this vid.

I took a run with him at Highlands some years back and did a bad job on the Video...but it shows how he Carves with a much more erect body position...not better, just different :)

Granted, we live in a place with Ideal Snow conditions...Stoked actually he has lived in Nicaragua the last 3 years so heres his latest Surf shot from last week

My Point here is...Style is a personal thing like Dancing...just Smile and Enjoy the Ride

[jtslalom]

Cool video Rob.

Its not very common to see guys carving soft-boots like that in duck stance. If you notice both riders have bent knees through their turns. I think that the stance angles prevent these guys from carving like most hard-booters do. That is driving their turns with their knees and creating angles more like a skier. However they compensate by carving their turns more through ankle flexion and bent knees all the way through the turn. I think this gets lost with some hardboot riders. Some tend to carve with straight legs and therefore lose grip on the snow as soon as the conditions turn icy or the slope gets steep. I have seen this more times than not. I think that being able to carve a soft deck like that helps to understand how to carve well on a hardboard. I ride my softdeck with 63/60 degree angles back/front on medium to hard conditions. I just can not drive my turns as hard as I want to without having steep angles. It is only when conditions are relatively soft that I go back to 20/20 angles. I give a lot of credit to those guys. They aren't plate riding but they sure can carve good lines at very tough angle stances.

JT

[michael.a]

Having seen really Good duck stance Carving in All kinds of conditions...I just can't agree with this either...I started our Son snowboarding when he was 8 in 1985, after skiing for 4 years. I started him with an alpine stance as I wanted him to surf or carve with me :) We had many days together carving the Grooom, but after 4 years, he converted to a Duck stance, he was raised on a Skateboard as well, and being young he wanted to Jump and try all the Fakie stuff :o his +18 - 6 angles have never hindered his ability to be both powerfully efficient and graceful...He use to sneak up behind me and do beautiful fluid Carves Goofy and then Flip around Fakie and mimmick my regular stance Carves... he has a relaxed, balanced and powerful Style...nor does he Carve like the Style portrayed in the Video that started this thread...so again generalizations are just that and do not apply across the Board. He has Surfing, Skating and Karate influences built into his Style with 25 years of practice at the time of this vid.

Style of course. In terms of style I dig Joerg's Pureboarding the most although it's hardboot only. And each style has it's own 'right way' and 'wrong way'. But I was talking about using the right tool for the right job. If I wanted to ride with freestyle or fakie elements then DUCK or at least the standard +15/0 angles are the best way to go.

But like I said, we're talking about solely carving, and carving on something other than perfect conditions, which is what most of us not located in the Alps or Rockies have to ride on. I spent the last 8 days riding on concrete in the morning and the softest slushiest snow (in the sun) and death cookie hardpack (in the shade) at midday to half meter high moguls by late afternoon and was on edge the entire time though with lots of traversing. The most critical aspect was and is balance. I think the slackline video nicely shows at least a static aspect of snowboarding stance and that DUCK does not allow the same balance and suitable posture as a directional stance.

Edited March 24, 2014 by michael.a
brain fart, changed goofy to duck

[softbootsurfer]

Style of course. In terms of style I dig Joerg's Pureboarding the most although it's hardboot only. And each style has it's own 'right way' and 'wrong way'. But I was talking about using the right tool for the right job. If I wanted to ride with freestyle or fakie elements then goofy or at least the standard +15/0 angles are the best way to go.

But like I said, we're talking about solely carving, and carving on something other than perfect conditions, which is what most of us not located in the Alps or Rockies have to ride on. I spent the last 8 days riding on concrete in the morning and the softest slushiest snow (in the sun) and death cookie hardpack (in the shade) at midday to half meter high moguls by late afternoon and was on edge the entire time though with lots of traversing. The most critical aspect was and is balance. I think the slackline video nicely shows at least a static aspect of snowboarding stance and that goofy does not allow the same balance and suitable posture as a directional stance.

sorry, I think you misunderstood the term Goofy, our Son Rob is a Goofy foot which of course is Right foot forward while I am a Regular foot which is Left foot forward...Regular SB bindings in a Duck Stance can be used to go Forward in Both Directions...Rob Carves on the Front of his Board and angulation is achieved by Tilting the Feet rather then leaning laterally with a HB to achieve angulation, and he does this in Both Directions. Riding the Edge is done with weight or pressure moving both in and out and up and down...his Balance is Incredible so I guess we disagree...

As for Hero Snow and great Mountains...Guilty We Are...though that is why I moved here in 68

There are some Great EC SB Carvers out there, but not wanting to use outriggers to Carve is not a faulty carving style is it...to only want the Edge to Touch the Snow is just another way of doing it right ?

as for Carving on Ice...There is no Ice here, maybe you should come to SES next year :)

[Hilux]

as for Carving on Ice...There is no Ice here, maybe you should come to SES next year :)

I can't fathom the idea of no ice. That doesn't exist in my reality :(

Rob's got great style, super smooth.

[Rob Stevens]

Ok... That slackline video just keeps coming up, so I'll tell you why it does a poor job of trying to compare balance vs. stance.

When the demonstrator stands in a low-angle "freestyle" stance, his toes and heels are completely unsupported. This is a pretty glaring problem if you're trying to talk about balance. Let's say, however, that he used webbing that was as wide as his feet... Maybe then we'd have something to talk about... Maybe.

[kieran]

Let's say, however, that he used webbing that was as wide as his feet...

and varied in camber between convex and concave, and was torsionally compliant in effectively only one plane, and didn't limit you to replicating what constitutes a cross-through transition, and .. well, you get the idea.

in terms of physics, there are so so many things going into how we even manage to go in a straight line, let alone complete the variety of turns each individual manages. that slackline video covers only one small part of it.

[michael.a]

sorry, I think you misunderstood the term Goofy,

There are some Great EC SB Carvers out there, but not wanting to use outriggers to Carve is not a faulty carving style is it...to only want the Edge to Touch the Snow is just another way of doing it right ?

as for Carving on Ice...There is no Ice here, maybe you should come to SES next year :)

Brain fart on my part, I meant duck stance the entire time, not goofy. But I will continue arguing that your son's balance in a duck stance may not be all that great on steep icy terrain and obviously using our hands for balance or support is NOT the right way to do it regardless of riding in SB or HB, but they always help :) For me, correct technique (at least in an alpine setting) means you can ride the same way in almost all different conditions. Universality... only then should you branch out into niche techniques that are more terrain and situation specific (Swoard's EC style, Velvet EC, Pureboarding..). But I will take you up on that SES offer, I've already told Michelle/Fin that I plan on being there :) :) :)

Ok... That slackline video just keeps coming up, so I'll tell you why it does a poor job of trying to compare balance vs. stance.

When the demonstrator stands in a low-angle "freestyle" stance, his toes and heels are completely unsupported. This is a pretty glaring problem if you're trying to talk about balance. Let's say, however, that he used webbing that was as wide as his feet... Maybe then we'd have something to talk about... Maybe.

I have to admit I am biased here as I know Bart and admire his riding style and riding theory. Like I said, he investigates a relatively static aspect of snowboarding but I feel the underlying basis is solid. From my own personal observation, skateboarders, surfers, windersurfers, and non-trick kiteboarders in the majority ride using a directional stance. However, I think that innate riding style preference (let's say a skier crossing over to snowboarding or someone who has a natural inclination to want to do tricks), body build, and actual equipment dictate what kind of stance should be used. But I argue that duck stance is NOT universal nor would I say applicable to a lot of riders, because seriously, how many of them actually spend time on freestyle or riding switch. I'd say 90% of softbooters are just trying to make it down the mountain and only in one direction.

[Beckmann AG]

...And one man's skank is another man's Shatzi.

To some extent, riding style/technique is a bit like art. Valuation is up to the viewer and what they bring to the moment. Some see beauty, some see ugliness, some hold neither conviction but go with the majority view so as to feel a part of something. One way or another, we respond, and our response informs our future endeavours.

Exceptional athletes are almost always marked by their economy, their ease, by their seeming ability to dilate time. Their performance visually inspires others to live kinesthetically.

Awkward also has a particular look about it. Always has, always will.

The riders in question may be riding exactly how they want to, in accord with a particular philosophy of how to move over snow.

For that they may be rightly lauded. Follow your bliss, and all that...

And they may be playing to an audience that favors a particular bearing upon the board. Flashing lights and sirens are impressive to a certain segment of society.

To hold their performance as epitomizing anything other than a particular point of view, to suggest that what they are doing proves the efficacy of a particular equipment configuration is, well, lacking.

I have a problem with that slack-line video. My problem is that I think it's bull****! Everyone should look at it again and tell me why I think that.

The slackline is a perfectly apt analog. Like a snowboard, it will store and return energy, and when 'live', is inherently unstable. Like a snowboard, it has a 'tippy' axis, and a 'stable' axis. Aligning various limb segments such that they work to their best advantage with respect to those characteristics is hardly bull****!.

Bull****! is insisting that a Trabant is suitable for performance driving.

When the demonstrator stands in a low-angle "freestyle" stance, his toes and heels are completely unsupported. This is a pretty glaring problem if you're trying to talk about balance. Let's say, however, that he used webbing that was as wide as his feet... Maybe then we'd have something to talk about... Maybe.

That's nothing more than a convenient red herring. You can make the slackline as wide, or wider than the length of a foot, but until the width of the 'platform' approaches it's length, the short axis is still the 'tippy' axis.

And balance is still compromised by aligning the 'strong' axis of the feet and lower extremities to the 'tippy' axis of the platform.

"You are 'go' at throttle up."

Edited March 25, 2014 by Beckmann AG

[Rob Stevens]

To some extent, riding style/technique is a bit like art. Valuation is up to the viewer and what they bring to the moment.

A reasonable statement...

The riders in question may be riding exactly how they want to, in accord with a particular philosophy of how to move over snow.

Ok...

For that they may be rightly lauded. Follow your bliss, and all that...

Here we go...

And they may be playing to an audience that favors a particular bearing upon the board. Flashing lights and sirens are impressive to a certain segment of society.

Oh yes, Beckman! The "Duck stance accolyte" is not far removed from the VLT addict! Props Bud... You almost made it four whole sentences before you pulled the "D" card!

To hold their performance as epitomizing anything other than a particular point of view, to suggest that what they are doing proves the efficacy of a particular equipment configuration is, well, lacking.

I looked up "efficacy" and your use of the word is, well, lacking.

The slackline is a perfectly apt analog. Like a snowboard, it will store and return energy, and when 'live', is inherently unstable. Like a snowboard, it has a 'tippy' axis, and a 'stable' axis. Aligning various limb segments such that they work to their best advantage with respect to those characteristics is hardly bull****!.

Well, the demontrator sure has aligned his "segments" to work on a slackline, as have generations of Wallenda's, but if this is supposed to prove the superiority of balance of the slalom waterski stance over that of being squared to the edge, why are beginner classes and parks everywhere so devoid of skwal'ers?

Bull****! is insisting that a Trabant is suitable for performance driving.

Have you been to a gathering of Trabants? You might not make it out alive. To your credit, I'm sure none of the attendees would be to defensive about your disdain for their parrafin heaters.

That's nothing more than a convenient red herring. You can make the slackline as wide, or wider than the length of a foot, but until the width of the 'platform' approaches it's length, the short axis is still the 'tippy' axis.

And balance is still compromised by aligning the 'strong' axis of the feet and lower extremities to the 'tippy' axis of the platform.

So you get it! The "tippy" axis of this simulated snowboard is nothing like standing on an actual snowboard (unless, again, you're a skwal'er). Put constant pressure under tha arches, take away any ability to balance on the toes or heels, as you would on firm snow, and you're well on your way to making it look like Mike from the video should barely be able to stand up, let alone ride.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Rob, would you advocate duck for someone who doesn't care if he goes backwards and doesn't want to hit the park?

[Rob Stevens]

That's not much to go on... Probably have to ask a few other questions first, and maybe look at a hip x-ray or two,

http://themovementfix.com/the-best-kept-secret-why-people-have-to-squat-differently/

Edited March 26, 2014 by Rob Stevens

[BobD]

Rob, would you advocate duck for someone who doesn't care if he goes backwards and doesn't want to hit the park?

[/font]Well, the demontrator sure has aligned his "segments" to work on a slackline, as have generations of Wallenda's, but if this is supposed to prove the superiority of balance of the slalom waterski stance over that of being squared to the edge, why are beginner classes and parks everywhere so devoid of skwal'ers?

Nobody gets a choice. Beginners are given a rental board set up slightly duck, and their instructor is set up duck. I'm sure most mature beginners would be much happier + +, but it's not an option. Just as most mature people at smaller hills would much prefer step in bindings if they had the choice.

In terms of instruction, visual models are immensely important. Seems to me that the alignment of the torso with the feet to control rotational tension in the body would get complicated in a beginner lesson with mixed +-, and ++. With duck, it's easy.... align your shoulders with the board. But because this doesn't come naturally to many students, seeing an instructor separately modeling for the ++s, would be confusing. I know it can be done by a well rounded instructor, but it isn't ideal.

In the original video, it's interesting to see the riders try to maintain rotational body tension on toe side turns. They often seem to rotate to where their shoulders are turned toward the tail of the board. Which means at those inclinations, they are no longer looking along their shoulder, but behind their shoulder just to see ahead. It looks like riding fakie with ++ angles.

[Beckmann AG]

And they may be playing to an audience that favors a particular bearing upon the board. Flashing lights and sirens are impressive to a certain segment of society.

Oh yes, Beckman! The "Duck stance accolyte" is not far removed from the VLT addict! Props Bud... You almost made it four whole sentences before you pulled the "D" card!

Um, nope. I was referring to the look often associated with a 'dynamic, athletic posture'.

Rapid, assertive, muscular movements attract the eye, and some find appeal in that. Others prefer more fluid movement.

Some are stirred by the passing of a squad car, lit up and loud, while others apprehend the possibility of a

posture-crime

in progress.

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?42057-Trouble-with-Heelside Post #27

I looked up "efficacy" and your use of the word is, well, lacking.

Did your reference source come with crayons, by chance?

Efficacy refers to the capacity of a particular mechanism to provide a given effect. The riders are certainly effective. That they appear awkward suggests they could do better, and this calls into question the efficacy of the interface geometry.

Well, the demontrator sure has aligned his "segments" to work on a slackline, as have generations of Wallenda's, but if this is supposed to prove the superiority of balance of the slalom waterski stance over that of being squared to the edge, why are beginner classes and parks everywhere so devoid of skwal'ers?

Beginners don't use a Skwal stance because they are learning to ride a snowboard, not a Skwal. Besides, their stance is dictated, not chosen.

Park activities favor the duck stance, and Skwalleurs are smart enough to recognize that theirs is not the appropriate tool for the job.

But you already know that.

High wires are so heavily tensioned and guyed that they might as well be a balance beam. That particular 'floor' isn't moving. The slack line, on the other hand, is reactive to the presence/contact of the user.

Kinda like a snowboard.

A savvy user, (E.G., a Wallenda), will optimize their relationship to the platform based on the activity they intend to perform.

Have you been to a gathering of Trabants? You might not make it out alive. To your credit, I'm sure none of the attendees would be to defensive about your disdain for their parrafin heaters.

"No worries". I understand the particular myopia associated with niche enthusiasts. And I heat with paraffin, so i've got that going for me.

So you get it! The "tippy" axis of this simulated snowboard is nothing like standing on an actual snowboard (unless, again, you're a skwal'er). Put constant pressure under tha arches, take away any ability to balance on the toes or heels, as you would on firm snow, and you're well on your way to making it look like Mike from the video should barely be able to stand up, let alone ride.

Try again. You're not that mechanically ignorant.

The slackline is an analog, which means it has relevant similarities.

The video demonstrates the relative value of three different stances on a directionally unstable platform. The better compromise for movement and stability is not Skwal, nor Duck, but somewhere in between. 'Balancing' on a moving snowboard involves both strength and dexterity, not one to the detriment of the other.

For greatest efficacy, one should take into account all the variables involved, as well as the desired outcome, and configure their gear appropriately.

Or they can do as they're told, and just deal with it.

Bart is suggesting that 'we' question the near-universal application of the duck stance. That as riders and educators, we take some time to think about it a bit.

Rightly so.

And that's hardly

bull****!

Edited March 27, 2014 by Beckmann AG

[philw]

I'm always pleased to see people ride on edge. I'd guess they are trying to emulate what many "carvers" do using gear and a stance developed for different purposes.

Perhaps it's a little like me using race boots in powder. Kiddies sometimes post my videos on their forums. The reaction is always extremely hostile - their world is hugely threatened by one old guy in boots. I don't feel much threatened by people who can carve in soft boots - I ride with them all the time.

Duck stance... the analogies all seem to be more complicated and flawed than just trying to hold an edge on a snowboard is.

That you can carve on soft gear is not news. If you lot all turn up at Carving Masters riding duck and kick my arse, that would be news, I'd not worry too much about why or how before joining you.

[BigBump]

The biggest thing I take away from the video riding is all about technique and not so much about equipement and stances. These guys are making ripping heelside carves in softboots and a duckstance that alot of people in hardboots can't.

It's easy to blame your equipement or lack there of(if only I hard that plate/custom Coiler/Sidewinder/BTS spring) and ignore improving technique. How often on here is the advice given to someone who has riding issues something like "you need more toelift and some inward cant" or "those issues are why I bought a plate"? That's the easy answer, the hard answer is to figure out how to make adjustments to your riding technique and style. And those equipement suggestions may help, but unless you adjust your riding technique, I bet they will keep making apearences.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Kiddies sometimes post my videos on their forums. The reaction is always extremely hostile - their world is hugely threatened by one old guy in boots.

Do you have a link to one of those? I would be curious to read their reactions.

[Rob Stevens]

Um, nope. I was referring to the look often associated with a 'dynamic, athletic posture'.

Rapid, assertive, muscular movements attract the eye, and some find appeal in that. Others prefer more fluid movement.

Uhhh... Yeah... If you say so.

Some are stirred by the passing of a squad car, lit up and loud, while others apprehend the possibility of a POSTURE CRIME in progress.

http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?42057-Trouble-with-Heelside Post #27

Did that come off as hurtful? Yeah... It was a hurtful comment, but I meant it out of love. I don't write if there's no love! I will say, though that we're all "guilty" of using body movements that aren't needed. It's those little extras where you see flaws with Mike. He's doing things that aren't needed (toeside). The big difference is that what he's doing doesn't have a negative knock-on to his ability to carve the board. The rider in the post you bring up displays the opposite. He's doing things he's seen done by others that he can't effectively control. His "style" has a negative result. He should try being less stylish. But, we digress.

Did your reference source come with crayons, by chance?

Efficacy refers to the capacity of a particular mechanism to provide a given effect. The riders are certainly effective. That they appear awkward suggests they could do better, and this calls into question the efficacy of the interface geometry.

There's that funny Bastard again! It's too bad I can't put a face to a name with you. Interweb anonimity is great like that.

Anyway, my issue with what you wrote lies with you saying that what Mike is doing is efficient, but lacking, on the heels of starting your commentary with an allowance for the act as a whole being largely in the eye of the beholder. The general statement that he's "lacking" could probably be amended to say that this is your opinion. I look at it in absolute awe (heelside, anyway).

It's difficult to come on a website where the majority of users find the techniques of low-angle carving to be funny looking. This is why I posted this video. What I'd like to know is where the holes are in Mikes heelside turn? He seems able to ride in that stance, which is so good for many other applications, as is evidenced by its near universal use, and adopt a posture remarkably identical to a forward angle rider. Please point out his "lacking" style.

Beginners don't use a Skwal stance because they are learning to ride a snowboard, not a Skwal. Besides, their stance is dictated, not chosen.

Park activities favor the duck stance, and Skwalleurs are smart enough to recognize that theirs is not the appropriate tool for the job.

There have been more than a few comments like this. As if somehow the neutral stance for beginners is some kind of sinister plot by the instructional bodies to turn everyone duck. I'll address that in two ways: Riglet and NoBoarding. In both cases, bindings fixed to a board aren't forcing the rider into a stance. In Riglet parks, the child is simply moved around on a sliding platform and will always inherently choose to stand on it in a way that gives them the best balance. If you watch them, they stand like they would normally... A bit toes out. Its the same with surfing or noboarding... A bit toes out. An earlier comment suggested that surfers do not stand this way, but everything I've seen (in shortboard, performance surfing) and done (the bindingless snow variety) suggests otherwise.

High wires are so heavily tensioned and guyed that they might as well be a balance beam. That particular 'floor' isn't moving. The slack line, on the other hand, is reactive to the presence/contact of the user.

Kinda like a snowboard.

A savvy user, (E.G., a Wallenda), will optimize their relationship to the platform based on the activity they intend to perform.

A highwire is designed to throw you to your death. To suggest that it isn't moving is insane. It has to be wired up like that because of the distance of the span. If it weren't wired, not only would it roll uncontrollably, but it would have waaaay more side-to-side movement than the body could compensate for. It's basically set up so that it behaves in a way that still visibly nuts, but not suicidally so. A big part of the fun is that it's as narrow as possible, so you would line up your feet on it to best to deal with that platform... Facing forward. You can use your toes and heels to control fore and aft movement in the direction of the wire and side to side, across your foot, for lateral balance. If you then try and navigate that insanely narrow platform without being able to use your toes and heels in any way, you're at a serious disadvantage. The arch of the foot can't do it alone.

I would say that if the slackline were made wider and guyed to at least keep it from wanting to flip upside-down, we'd be closer to a real comparative experiment, as a flat board inherently wants to sit flat.

Try again. You're not that mechanically ignorant.

The slackline is an analog, which means it has relevant similarities.

The video demonstrates the relative value of three different stances on a directionally unstable platform. The better compromise for movement and stability is not Skwal, nor Duck, but somewhere in between. 'Balancing' on a moving snowboard involves both strength and dexterity, not one to the detriment of the other.

For greatest efficacy, one should take into account all the variables involved, as well as the desired outcome, and configure their gear appropriately.

You're hung up on the similarities... That's the problem! Slacklining does replicate a number of skills you need to snowboard and does act like one, to a point. My issue is that the demonstrator is distilling his point down to comparative balance, without having the necessary controls in place. If you want to stricly look at balance, you have to even out the playing field. If the more forward stance is supported, the opposite stance must be provided for in a similar way. That would likely require using something other than a true slackline and that would be addressing all the variables. I'd also like to see a demonstrator who has equal time in the saddle of each stance. I have never squalled, so I do not volunteer.

Or they can do as they're told, and just deal with it.

Bart is suggesting that 'we' question the near-universal application of the duck stance. That as riders and educators, we take some time to think about it a bit.

Rightly so.

Are you suggesting that educators arrived where we are today, some decades later, setting up beginners and novices as we do, via not thinking about it?

[Neil Gendzwill]

That's not much to go on... Probably have to ask a few other questions first, and maybe look at a hip x-ray or two,

http://themovementfix.com/the-best-kept-secret-why-people-have-to-squat-differently/

What does doing squats have to do with it? A rider doing a heelside in duck stance looks somewhat like a squat, but in a forward stance not. What is the reasoning for duck if going backwards is not a consideration?

[philw]

Do you have a link to one of those? I would be curious to read their reactions.

I spotted them leeching my bandwidth - stealing some of my images, then found they were working through my video. The one I'm thinking is of the Burton Stella from a few years ago. The kids (who I appreciate are probably fat and over thirty), were here http://easyloungin.com Maybe a search there for the Stella will dig it out.

From memory I think I blocked the leeching and then left them to it; I didn't want to get sucked into the whole troll thing.

[two_ravens]

SBS, thanks for posting up the video of your son - nice lines, nice style! He might almost be as cool as that duck.... :D

[charliechocolate]

Do you have a link to one of those? I would be curious to read their reactions.

For the curious: http://easyloungin.com/forum/topic.php?id=3307

[Neil Gendzwill]

For the curious: http://easyloungin.com/forum/topic.php?id=3307

Thanks. Of course now I can't see the pics or video to see what got them all in a tizzy. They'd probably all poop bricks if they saw some of the pics and video that appear here on the regular.

[lonbordin]

Thanks. Of course now I can't see the pics or video to see what got them all in a tizzy. They'd probably all poop bricks if they saw some of the pics and video that appear here on the regular.

Here's the video:

http://vimeo.com/18776312#at=0