Rob Stevens Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 And go. :o:nono::(:):lol::rolleyes:;):smashfrea:p:argue::D<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XBYdtZ8R19g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Soft boots are funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Well, the style certainly showcases one's rear-end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 It was interesting to watch them struggle for balance, having just watched the video titled "Balance and Snowboard Stance - illustrated with a slackline." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger jr Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Those guys would rock on a hard boot setup. I'd last about 1/2 a run trying to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Actually, no, I don't want to carve like that, I prefer to carve frontwards and backwards rather than sideways, proof that you CAN carve in soft boots, not that I'd want to ps the slack-line reference is sooooo fitting Edited March 22, 2014 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 The guys ARE carving. It's about as graceful as someone doing slopestyle on a full hardboot GS setup would be. There are a few locals that carve as well or better on their soft setups, with a lot less hand waving. Maybe it's choppy where they're riding in that video? They're quite proud of what's in the video; what's the back-story Rob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Indeed they are carving. It appears the imbalance is maybe related to their speed?...yup just watched it again and it looks like their boards are wavering quite a bit. They are going too fast for their smaller sidecuts...that and the boards might be too soft (compared to our purpose built rigs) and simply might not have been designed to perform such a task with grace. And they are charging hard! All criticism aside, kudos to them for focusing on a carving program rather than just the park/jibbing elements of soft boot riding (or whatever else is involved in soft boot lessons...how to create push piles and moguls etc ;)) Perhaps they will gather more interest from soft booters this way and for those who really catch on and love it, well, the next step is hardboots :D Oh, and love the tune selection. As a banjo player it's nice to hear some appalachian folk albeit being paired with a sport usually known for other genres of music. Edited March 22, 2014 by Hilux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapster Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'd have to look again, but it seemed like they were running pretty common softboot angles-maybe even duck. Crank them both up to even a modest, forward stance and their body positioning would likely be much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Rob, is that the same Mike Bray who is a high ranking CASI member/leader? It seems indeed that they are riding at duck and speeds above board design. I like their heel sides better. What excersizes would Mike try to employ to counter breaking at the waist on toeside? ;) Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Beckmann... I can just hear you, like an old Swiss guide, telling your client "Your riding hurts my eyes". I'd really like to meet you sometime... I think you'd be a funny bastard! Two Ravens... I have a problem with that slack-line video. My problem is that I think it's bull****! Everyone should look at it again and tell me why I think that. In no way do I say that with any meanness towards you! You seem like an awesome lady who shreds hard!!! Digger... The second guy is an old friend of mine. As a bigshot CASI type, he's got some real skills on hardboots, too. Like him, I really reach for as much carve as I can get in sb's because I know what hb's can do! Corey... That comment is gold, and pretty true when you think about it. I'm remebering a few top hb guys go through a park and pipe, making it look good. They were so comfortable on their gear. Backstory? The toe turn looks like it does, because these guys are serious surfers as well. In my mind, this is the real "surf-style" carving. Hilux... Tom's board looks overpowered for sure. It seems that everytime he waves his arms, it's right after the board flexes and hooks uphill. Mike, on the other hand, is not wavering much at all, to my eye. BTW... I wish HiLux's were available in NA. A diesel one at that. Scrapster... Yes. Duck. This to me is the amazing part and why I think that Mike's heelside is about the most amazing thing I've seen, carving-wise, on sb's in that stance. He's open to the nose, front hand down, hip-ass on the snow in a way I've never seen before. Sure... There are softbooters on this forum, the guy in Russia and others who can EC on sb's, but they universally run high angles front and rear. Mike's turn, to me anyway, is like the Holy Grail of sb carving, where the stance is (arguably) maximized for freeride, with the bonus of an unheard of ability to generate edge angle and ang-clination heelside. Blue... A word or two on the toeside... I wouldn't try and correct it at all!! People are not used to seeing this kind of body position, out of the water, anyway. What you're looking at is their effort to drive the front knee down in a way not many do. If you watch closely, though, they're not "locked" in this position. In fact, Tom (I don't know him) has an incredible amount of quickness in his hip mobility. Look how fast he goes from hips back to hips forward (a more traditional "arched" sb toeside)! This range of motion is something to strive for, I think. I was so intrigued by this toeside position and its relativity to surfing that I tried it over and over at my cat skiing joint the other evening, running sled laps on the noboard. If I get lazy and start a toeturn too open, my front foot will lift off the board and I'll be off the back. Starting with a more deliberate move to flex the front knee, with strong rotation cures that. Of course, the problem them becomes going OTB, so the balance between fore and aft is pretty critical! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilux Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Hilux... Tom's board looks overpowered for sure. It seems that everytime he waves his arms, it's right after the board flexes and hooks uphill. Mike, on the other hand, is not wavering much at all, to my eye. BTW... I wish HiLux's were available in NA. A diesel one at that. For sure, Mike and his setup seems smoother and better able to absorb the irregularities in the terrain. It also seems like he's extending a little more through the turns. Get these guys on HBs and something with more than 8m sidecut for sure...but I can still appreciate they are carving on a SB setup and duck on top of that. Just curious, have they tried HBs? edit: just saw post above, yes they have. Diesel HiLux...my dream:1luvu: Lucky for Canadians we can still import diesel right-hand drive vehicles of a certain vintage. Looked into importing one from Japan but the prices they're asking for 15yr old truck are ridonculous...you can buy a 4th gen tacoma for same price, but it's not a HiLux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 That guy on the slackline should put a bicycle on it. He could finally prove that it's impossible to ride a bicycle! ;) My point is that a slackline doesn't prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icebiker Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 ....with a lot less hand waving. Maybe it was a signal? :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Blue... A word or two on the toeside... I wouldn't try and correct it at all!! People are not used to seeing this kind of body position, out of the water, anyway. What you're looking at is their effort to drive the front knee down in a way not many do. If you watch closely, though, they're not "locked" in this position. In fact, Tom (I don't know him) has an incredible amount of quickness in his hip mobility. Look how fast he goes from hips back to hips forward (a more traditional "arched" sb toeside)! This range of motion is something to strive for, I think. I was so intrigued by this toeside position and its relativity to surfing that I tried it over and over at my cat skiing joint the other evening, running sled laps on the noboard. If I get lazy and start a toeturn too open, my front foot will lift off the board and I'll be off the back. Starting with a more deliberate move to flex the front knee, with strong rotation cures that. Of course, the problem them becomes going OTB, so the balance between fore and aft is pretty critical! I also think they are doing just fine. Proof that there is more then one way to skin a cat... My comment was more tongue in cheek (smiley somwhere there). However, Mike would be obliged to fail a candidate, on CASI exam, riding toe side like that. Thus, what to do to increase the front foot pressure and knee drive, while maintaining more upright body? Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Amazing or not, it still just looks awkward to my eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 They're not doing anything that the boards aren't capable of doing. Duck stance and biomechanics are what's making it hard to do, and, unintuitively, what's making them have to drive the boards beyond their limits (resulting in hokups and the associated armwaving ugliness) to be able to get the board on edge like that. A forward stance, even in softies, would mean being able to carve the same angles at lower speeds, with more control and less "hooking". My $0.02, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 What does the Carving ? The Board or the Rider ? Technique ? or Style ? Man of Words says ... The Track is not the Whole Truth ! yet it is, what we ALL leave behind, Proof so to speak :) Snowboard Profession says Duck is King The Real Surf Style :rolleyes: Style is the Word, and yes everyone here, thinks theirs is Da Kine I noticed years ago from Surfing, Skating and Skiing that each of us adopts the the Style we Feel Fits Us ...No Matter who we are, we observe and infuse that Style we find the most pleasing, what matches our Vision of What is Correct... Carving is done by the Edges of our Boards...not the Boots my .03 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I've been surfing since the early 80's all over the world. Duck is NOT the predominant stance. Feet forward is... just sayin' ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Amazing or not, it still just looks awkward to my eye. me too Regardless of weather the boots buckle up or lace up one foot pointing backwards does not lend itself to an efficient carving position(hurts my knees just to think about it). all of the best soft boot carvers I've seen aren't duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Very very very nice riding but all I saw was another confirmation that duck stance (NOT softboots) is the anathema to carving, biomechanically it just isn't natural regardless of all the hand waving, maximum knee flexion, and torso bending, the balance is not there. BTW, let's see duck stance carving on steep uneven frozen or icy snow and not on empty morning fluffy corduroy. That's where the balance issues will immediately take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 I have a bud in Vail who can school those guys in softie carves.He and I like riding together because we each like to do the same things but look like the odd couple with our equipment choices.He also does weird things like riding the whole mountain on a 180 Canyon with only his front foot attached-just because he can(Rob Stevens,you might get a kick out of just how well he does it).I agree with softbootsailer that people do what feels comfortable to them,and ride in the style that appeals to them.I have loved riding park and pipe at a reasonable intensity even though I rarely do these days due to family and work obligations.When I do get the chance to work back up to a certain level of willingness, I always do it in my hard boots,knowing full well that it's not considered optimum,but always with the feeling that I'm having a blast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Tat Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Is is carving? Yes. Do they appear to be pretty much at the limit of performance for their equipment/stance choices? Also Yes. As much as I appreciate people who can carve the snot out of a softboot set-up I'm also a "right tool for the job" kind of a guy. OT. I'd like to try a noboard sometime. That looks like a hoot. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Regarding the slackline vid - three thoughts. First, the guy in the video is not especially skilled at slacklining, so don't know what authority he feels he has on the sport. Second, back in my wayward youth when I did a bit of slacklining (waaaay back when there was still slack in the lines! What were we thinking???? ) and looking at what very talented slackliners do now, the stance seems most often to be similar to foot position on a skwal. Third, not sure slackline proves anything in particular about snowboarding (just a bit of handwaving similarity - of course I've waved my hands at times in an alpine stance too), though the specific kind of balance required on a slackline DOES translate directly to paddling/balancing a squirt boat.(but I digress :rolleyes:) Regarding the softboot carvers - they are certainly throwing down some big carves on gear and stance that is rather poorly suited to the task. Reminds me of Mountain Unicyclists - deliberately choosing gear that will make reaching the desired goal exponentially more difficult! So, props to them for having the skill and athleticism to make it work. But to my eye it does look a bit awkward. When I carve, I have only two goals: to 'feed the rat' (satisfy my crave for the carve) and - though I mostly fall far short - to make carving look as cool as it feels. I have no doubt that what these guys are doing feels really cool. But I'm not so sure the casual observer will find it very appealing........ p.s. funny to note that this duck in NOT using a duck stance! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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