dano Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 My go-to board for years has been my Tanker 192 with f2 or B plates. It's so easy and surfy to carve on and freeride it's ridiculous. On long cat tracks I just point the board, relax and ride flat...no issues no effort. I picked up a F2 Eliminator 165 WC BX. I find it damp and fun to carve with no stability issues and great edge hold on the slopes... but going fast on cat tracks or other areas where you ride flat ( that you end up on at most resorts ) it's SUPER squirrelly. It doesn't pull to the left or right or feel like I'm too far forward or back it just feels sketchy and doesn't seem to have a sweet spot where you can just relax and not worry about catching an edge. Like a boat without a rudder. Right now I just don't use it unless it's to icy for the Tanker. Is it just the shorter running length I need to adapt to? Maybe screw with my bias? I run the same stance width on both...Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Don't know the specs on the F2 is it dacambered ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn Poop Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 If I recall correctly, taper and sidecut depth play major roles in causing or preventing what you describe. More taper and/or less sidecut depth = more stable on the flats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 @27 cm shorter i'd be more concerned if you didn't notice a difference. You went from a scalpel to a jack knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Maybe you ruled this out already, but check base flatness all along the length of the board. A convex or concave base can result in various kinds of squirrelliness. Base edge bevel is also important -- is it consistent along the length? Is it more than say 2 degrees? If so you almost certainly want a base grind. Is it 0 degrees? If so, you probably want 1/2 to 1 degree to avoid the grabbiness you're suggesting. Second, are you using the same heel lift on both boards? I find that riding with no heel lift causes squirrelliness riding flat (much worse on shorter boards) -- I guess I'm twisting the board when I'm relaxed. Carving is fine, though. Finally, playing with bias can help, but the above are bigger culprits in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I'm a softy carver. I go between my 164 burton custom x 2008 model and a 165 custom Donek FC wide(23.5 waist and designed with hardboots in mind I bought a couple summers ago from Big Canuck) My custom x is a jitterbug compared to my Donek. 8.5 SCR on burton to 9.5 SCR on the Donek. Also eff edge goes from 131-150 between the two boards. BIG difference. I love them both dearly I'm scared to go to a different freestyle board when my custom x does and she is fading fast with delam. Here is a snipet I posted a few weeks ago on the Donek in softies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) What teach said, when was the last time you had the base done. Edited January 21, 2014 by Bobby Buggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Heavy base structure and variable concavity on sharp snow make for some nasty handling characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the replies. The base has a Ski MD tune done by the racer I got it from. (He had like 10 of them) and the board looks brand new. I've only ridden it a few times. Here are the specs. Metal, Vario Camber ( wth is THAT?)..I'm not sure if this is a lot of taper....but if it's normal sketchyness at least I know. I sort of figured the 12m sidecut would make it feel longer. It feels pretty hooked in carving..really slices. I was going to bring this board to Breck in a few weeks and enjoy the benefits of traveling/hiking with a small board, but there is so much flat there...no way. Edited January 23, 2014 by dano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 taper is 303-286=17mm, which is pretty big, I think. This board was build to ride on the edge, and I see no reason to go flat on this. You will be way stable when riding on edge, with very wide turns. Just swinging from edge to edge when riding almost straing line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think the issue is the vario camber (perhaps a fancy new word to say it's not decambered much but it has some decamber) There is no description in detail from F2 as to what it really is. The issue that you have identified (like a boat without a rudder) is nothing more than getting used to different designs than your tanker. Edge to edge is exactly how to stay out of trouble till you get used to the beast. Other option put a plate on the Tanker and Carve that ice ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Weight your back foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Other option put a plate on the Tanker and Carve that ice !I don't think putting a plate on anything is a solution to cat-track stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) I don't think putting a plate on anything is a solution to cat-track stability. Quote from original post "Right now I don't use it unless it's too icy for the Tanker" Quote (myself) "Put a plate on the Tanker and carve that ice" Edited January 24, 2014 by lowrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Quote from original post "Right now I don't use it unless it's too icy for the Tanker"Quote (myself) "Put a plate on the Tanker and carve that ice" Yes, but now you've added a plate to the Tanker and it will likely be hard to control subtly at slow speeds, ie on cat tracks. Caveat: haven't tried this myself, this is just what I hear from plate owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano Posted January 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks for the input. I'll see if I can put it to use. Once again I certainly don't WANT to ride flat. Most ski resorts have snowboard-unfriendly flat places...where you have to get as much speed as possible by riding flat (sometimes closely surrounded by idiots) to get past a section to avoid having to unclip and walk. It also sucks that it's all that I can do to keep up with my wife on the flats...:) It feels like I'm balancing on a loose railing and she just glides along at warp speed like I normally do on the Tanker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 A 1/2-degree base bevel made all my boards much easier to control while flat with no noticeable effect while turning. Every board has a little different feel when riding flat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 1/2 degree base bevel, plus de-tune about 1 inch at tip and tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Yes, but now you've added a plate to the Tanker and it will likely be hard to control subtly at slow speeds, ie on cat tracks. Caveat: haven't tried this myself, this is just what I hear from plate owners. I think this is an excellent opportunity to clarify for anyone who hasn't experienced what it is that a plate actually does in real world conditions. If you ride perfect groom a plate will do nothing for you. If you ride all day and half way through the day the groom gets chopped up a plate will allow you to navigate that crud without getting beat up you can literally ride longer (less fatigue) I will repeat what I think should be remembered by anyone thinking about a plate and that is a plate will enhance the performance of any board in less than ideal conditions. If your tanker is not carving well on ice a plate will help in that situation. Given it's we'll tuned (edges sharp etc.) A plate allows your board to perform closer to how it is designed because of the plates ability to decouple and eliminating the flat spot your footprint(bindings) create. The riding flat issue associated to a plate (scares the hell out of you because you feel locked in) is reduced with experience on the plate. It has a lot to do with the type of board you have the plate mounted to. Old school glass vs. decambered metal. To analyse Dano's riding flat issue I think we would agree there can be many factors board, rider, tune, conditions, fall line etc. I mention fall line because I remember at Nakiska on my PR coiler with a plate I experienced many runs where running flat was impossible because of the way the runs were cut across the fall line. Those same runs on a metal board wouldn't be as noticeable. I would encourage anyone who rides in less than perfect conditions as I must most of the year to try a Plate if you ever get the chance. It adds one more tool to your Quiver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.T. Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 +1 on the issue being taper related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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