SunSurfer Posted July 15, 2013 Report Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) I smashed a finger in my right hand in February 2013 while racing NASTAR at Highlands. A fall forward onto outstretchedhands at some speed. I was wearing wrist braces at the time, and looking at the injury it seemed likely that the bone had shattered against the front edge of the wristguard. There are xrays in the Alpine Injured List thread if you're inclined. My hands are crucial to me earning my living and so up until now I'd ridden with a deliberate "no hand to snow contact" style to try to protect them. Anyway, I'm sitting at home contemplating my hand in its' splint and decide that what I really want is better way of protecting my hands when I ride. Something that will absorb shocks, race gate impacts and falls, slide across the snow in a hard turn rather than puttting my gloved fingers at risk, still allow me to pull out of a racecourse start gate, and possibly even allow me to self arrest if I fall on a steep and icy slope. The starting idea was the punch guards that ski racers use in slalom racers have on their poles. Some of the more recent versions, like the Komperdell Wide World Cup are designed to slide across the snow "if you ski angles like Ligety" to quote their promotional material. The first photo shows the prototype pair of hand armour - gauntlets if you like. The one on the right has been lightly sanded to remove the markings which show what the original object was, a 1.5 litre garden spray pressure vessel, made from high density polyethylene. Learning as I went along about the heat welding and shaping properties of the material, I made a tidier job of the second one on the left. The photo just above shows the left handed armour. An old Leki ski pole has been cut to length to just not quite protrude from the open end of the pressure vessel. Then the tip has been riveted in place inside to protrude as shown. A stainless steel wood screw holds the top of the ski pole handle in place and polyethylene scap has been welded/melted around both top and bottom ends to firmly hold the shortened pole in place. The pressure vessel has been cut as shown, with the direction of the fore/aft axis of the pole indicated by the middle of the three line drawn on top the pressure vessel. The aim being to provide a sliding surface instead of the riders hand actually contacting the snow, even in the most laid out extreme carve. The assymetric opening/pole relationship makes them Right and Left handed. The flattened surface, oriented at right angles to the fore/aft axis of the pole, allows the user to firmly pull off from a starting gate. In an ideal world I would have a minimal gap between the bottom of the rubber pole handle and the beginning of the flattened surface, although I may find the extra leverage from the extra length is an advantage for people with very strong wrists in gaining starting speed. The pole tips are there primarily to allow self arrest, having slid out of control down an icy slope after a fall in the past I would have loved to have been able to slow, control or stop my descent. These have not yet been tested at all. I have just torn an Achilles tendon playing another sport, and will not get to try them out this year. Obviously a concern is going to be how unwieldy they may be in actual use. Happy for anyone to take the idea and run with it, develop it, modify it, whatever. Edited July 18, 2013 by SunSurfer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 very similar to the sliders you can see on the handles of ski poles in use by the late Dick Spector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarve Posted July 16, 2013 Report Share Posted July 16, 2013 Interesting idea! I'm wondering if the round surface of the garden spray vessel might create wrist instability (and possible injury), when in contact with uneven snow surface at speed? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Interesting idea! I'm wondering if the round surface of the garden spray vessel might create wrist instability (and possible injury), when in contact with uneven snow surface at speed? Just a thought. Hopefully not as much wrist/finger strain as a gloved hand contacting an uneven snow surface at speed. The rounded surfaces of the vessel have minimal edge to catch and grab on surface irregularities. The device may well tempt/allow people to put more pressure onto their outstretched hand though, especially as the polyethylene should slide better and have less braking effect than a gloved hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 Is it instinctive for you to put out your hands when you fall? I don't do it and usually fall relaxed but that is likely due to my judo background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I don't do that either. I learnt on Dendix, where to do so would result in broken fingers, so maybe that's why, but I'm not convinced it's instinctive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted July 17, 2013 Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 I don't do that either. I learnt on Dendix, where to do so would result in broken fingers, so maybe that's why, but I'm not convinced it's instinctive. Ha, forget about when you're falling, what about those of us who have developed the very bad habit of "patting the dog" all the time? I pulled my glove off to take some photos this season, and then rode down to catch up with my friend carrying the camera bare-handed. I found out that I can't really carve at all -- at least toeside -- without putting a hand down. It feels like a cheat, and I'll be working on breaking myself of the habit next season. In the meantime, Sunsurfer's invention would definitely save me some money on gloves :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted July 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) Is it instinctive for you to put out your hands when you fall? I broke the finger when I caught an edge during transition from one edge to the other in a NASTAR course and fell forwards over the nose of the board. If I hadn't put my hands out I would have planted my face into the packed snow of the course. When I'm free carving the vast majority of my falls are to one side or other when I lose the edge grip from poor technique. Edited July 19, 2013 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floBoot Posted July 18, 2013 Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 Will you be adding any aerodynamic bits, every 100th of a second counts when your racing;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted July 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2013 (edited) Will you be adding any aerodynamic bits, every 100th of a second counts when your racing;) Floboot, you're so clever. You clearly spotted the "bulbous bow", just like ocean going ships have, on the very top which has the effect of smoothing out the airflow over the rest of the armour, reducing turbulence and creating an overall "lift" effect that actually drags me faster down the course! :) LOL Edited July 18, 2013 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Boone Lennon is the inventor of the sliders, these are the product many place on poles, or just hand carried for years. I am sure nastar doesn't,t give a fuc$ but in all other sanctioned series (usasa,ussa, FIS) you are not allowed to use any "devise" in your hands. 15 years ago lots of product to hold and slide on were out there. I have used a bunch, I would be scared of your pole tips, the idea of self arresting seems, unjust. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboarderdude Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I broke the finger when I caught an edge during transition from one edge to the other in a NASTAR course and fell forwards over the nose of the board. If I hadn't put my hands out I would have planted my face into the packed snow of the course. When I'm free carving the vast majority of my falls are to one side or other when I lose the edge grip from poor technique. Consider yourself lucky! that's exactly how I broke my leg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted August 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 Boone Lennon is the inventor of the sliders, these are the product many place on poles, or just hand carried for years. I am sure nastar doesn't,t give a fuc$ but in all other sanctioned series (usasa,ussa, FIS) you are not allowed to use any "devise" in your hands. 15 years ago lots of product to hold and slide on were out there. I have used a bunch, I would be scared of your pole tips, the idea of self arresting seems, unjust. Good luck. Bordy, thanks for the info. That's all stuff I didn't know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted August 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) https://usasa.org/images/stories/rulebook/2013_USASA_Rulebook.pdf Rule 151 covers equipment: Hand held devices to aid with propulsion or balance are not allowed except for adaptive riders. 151.04 Forbidden Equipment Equipment that is worn or used for the purpose of balance, increased weight, or other improper physically enhancing purposes, is strictly forbidden. This rule may be waived for the Adaptive Class. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The way it's written to my reading leaves the admissibility of hand armour open to interpretation. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/sb_fis_icr-12-snowboard-final_edited.pdf FIS much clearer and unambiguous. 2090.4 Balance and Speed control The competitors are not allowed to wear anything on the hands besides gloves or to use any kind of devices to additionally support their balance, reduce or accelerate their speed, like poles or sticks etc. Edited August 3, 2013 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Your design could be used as a slider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 So, just over a year on from making them, my hand armour got put to the test over the last few days. Typical North Island New Zealand conditions, small amount of loose snow over hardpack. I ride with a "no touch" technique. I've never tried to touch the snow. The aim of the armour for me is to protect my hands if they meet the snow, not to intentionally slide my hands across the snow during each carve. It's 18 months since I last carved, with a hand injury and a ruptured Achilles tendon causing the prolonged layoff. Despite that the very first day I was back on the snow I was carving lower and more confidently than I have ever done before. It was as though somehow 18 months off the snow had allowed my brain to create the neuromuscular connections to carve my downhill edge into each turn, just like Corey taught in the Intermediate Clinic at SES 2013. I had a conversation on the chair with a ski racer in his 20's who was amazed at how my hands seemed just only just above the snow in the turns. He wanted to know how to try carving because I was making it look so much fun! That was when I was sure something was seriously different from the last time I rode. I suspect the improvement is in major part due to a number of changes made to my equipment that I'll post about separately. That first day I was riding with my old wrist guards and gloves. I caught the snow at one stage in a deep heelside turn and gave my left ring finger a nasty bruise. When I rode the following day with the armour on, I very rapidly stopped worrying about the snow coming up to meet me. If I touched the snow, the guards slid as designed and my hands and gloves were completely unscathed. Easy enough to grab the handles at the beginning of each run, and to pop out to pull the Intec cable release at the end. I just need to learn to relax my hands a little inside and not grip the handles so tightly when I ride. They attracted lots of comments, mostly "What are those things?" (Answer: like slalom punch guards but for a snowboarder) and a long conversation on the chairlift with a guy who had spent many years in the snow sports business who immediately saw the utility of the guards and the self-arrest tips. Overall, I'll keep on using them in place of my wristguards, and they'll come to SES 2015 with me if anyone wants to try them out. Total construction costs were about NZ$45 for two 1.5 litre high density polyethylene garden spray pots and a pair of old ski poles. Tools were a soldering iron with a blade tip and some sandpaper to cut and shape the pots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimcheen Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Great story!! Coming back from injury to be better than before is very inspiring. Be careful out there and I hope to see you at SES '15. Edited August 13, 2014 by jimcheen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatSn1perGuy Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hey I know I am a bit late here but have you tried combat/ tactical gloves. They are padded so it is extremely hard to over extend or break your fingers. It also has knuckle pads, palm and top hand protection, water proofed, ect. Just look into them, they are used by the us millitary so they must me good for something and plus you still have a functional hand; not one trapped in a case. I use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaRtharsis Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 Hey I know I am a bit late here but have you tried combat/ tactical gloves. They are padded so it is extremely hard to over extend or break your fingers. It also has knuckle pads, palm and top hand protection, water proofed, ect. Just look into them, they are used by the us millitary so they must me good for something and plus you still have a functional hand; not one trapped in a case. I use them. Do you have a link you could share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatSn1perGuy Posted August 20, 2014 Report Share Posted August 20, 2014 Yea I will attach it when I get home and sorry about the delay I don't check this forum often. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatSn1perGuy Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 Very high end - http://www.mechanix.com/safety/armorcore-extrication High end - http://www.lapolicegear.com/mx-mp3-f55-mpact3-taa.html Middle end - http://www.mechanix.com/tactical/m-pact-covert Low end - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Finger-Gloves-Military-Tactical-Airsoft-Hunting-Assault-Combat-Cycling-M-/301128281889?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item461ca4ef21 Mechanix is a great brand and you want to look for the hard plastic "joints" on the finger. These gloves (at least the good ones) are nearly indestructible. Hope this helps. P.S. If you want to find ok priced used ones look at MILSIM, airsoft, millitary, ect forums in the sales section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Donnelly Posted August 21, 2014 Report Share Posted August 21, 2014 (edited) WWW.vimeo.com/7628238 From 1994 Boone Lennon "Portrait Of A Snowboarder" Edited August 21, 2014 by Pat Donnelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Used the armour on my recent trip to the South Island. Found I was happiest when I had the straps connected to my gloves. Meant I could just pop out of the armour at the end of a run and activate my Intec cable without any chance of losing the armour. The armour was the subject of an almost endless run of questions from my chairlift companions, and pretty much everyone got the idea quickly. I had both hard boot and soft boot snowboarders admiring them, and was able to film an experienced Japanese snowboard school principal trying the armour out. The video of his trial run is uploading to YouTube as I write this, and I'll post the link as soon as it's finished processing. In this cropped screen capture from the video you can clearly see the track the armour leaves as Sam's hand touches down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 The little protrusions look ideal for knocking ice off botton of boots ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) The ski pole tips are useful for chipping ice build up off boots or bindings. Edited June 14, 2016 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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