Binding Question

[Allee]

So does that mean that the board is badly designed (at least for that particular rider?)

[xy9ine]

lonbordin - yes, 8 screws each binding, just on the blue board. Two years ago it started to show damage around the 4 inserts I use on each binding, so I added screws to try to stop the progress of that damage.

a couple inserts on my kessler started pulling and hansjuerg suggested the same; seems sketchy, but hoping to get more life out of the thing, so... he also mentioned that bombers tend to pull inserts; looking at the design (as opposed to something like an f2 i suppose i could see some merit to this hypothesis.

[Jack M]

What Allee said - I would love to try some Sidewinders (Rocket Man, I'll be in touch!) but I think it is the metal base on the binding that interferes with the board flex.

Actually the TD3 interferes with board flex the least of any binding that I would want to rely on, due to the E-ring and floating cant disc design. The center disc is the only metal part rigidly mounted to the board, and its diameter is minimized. Only way to get more board flex than that is to use a binding with a plastic center disc, and I just don't trust those.

I think the answer is right in front of you. TD3 Sidewinder. (the e-ring is the same as the regular TD3) Yeah, you can save $190 by going with Ibex, but divide that by the life of the Bombers (10+ years??) and I think that's being penny wise and pound foolish.

[xy9ine]

I think that's being penny wise and pound foolish.

*quizzical expression*. are you from the olden days? i kid, i kid... that said, the canadian penny has just been discontinued, so said phrases are on their way to becoming anachronistic here.

[Beckmann AG]

...The problem I have run into though is that I cannot move my front boot forward enough with other bindings to avoid boot out on heelside turns at my usual 62 degree angle. I have the Nideckers on the board now, and at 72 degrees I only boot out once in awhile...

I am riding Deeluxe mondo 23 boots, sole length 261mm. The TD2s are standard. The board is 18.2 wide...

Kinda wondering how it is you're 'booting out' with such a small boot at a relatively steep angle?

Seems odd.

the Ibex project sounds like fun, but the bindings I tried were just borrowed.... If I owned a pair right now I would cut them up in a heartbeat. Hate to buy them just to butcher them though.

Ok, then: Simply remove the plastic shim, flip the heel block, and take a few easy runs to verify the effect. Check the screw length so as not to punch holes in the rubber underlayer.

The other thing I did to get this board to behave was move my bindings all the way forward.

With the TD2s, the board feels like it just refuses to bend. It's just a 12 meter board that does a 12 meter turn no matter what I do and no matter what speed. With the Nideckers, the board feels like it bends easily with little effort, even at slow speeds. The blue board is also a 12 meter board, but with a very flexible nose and with a little pressure on the nose it can do almost any turn radius that I ask of it. With the Nideckers on, the red board will match it exactly in all but the tightest turns.

The 'flexy' bindings allow you to move around just a bit more above the deck, such that you can find a 'sweeter' spot from which to operate.

Since this thread is delving into quotes of pecuniary wisdom from bygone generations, your binding quest is akin to 'running past dollars to pick up pennies'.

Either ride with a few rolls of quarters in your pockets, or replace the red board with one more suitable for your mass. Or lack thereof.

Both options are cheaper than a new set of clamps on the wrong board.

[teach]

The OP likes TD2s but wanted more board flex, so maybe just needs the thicker TD3 e-ring to allow the board to flex under it more than the TD2 e-ring allows. A pair of TD3 center disks plus yellow TD3 e-rings and longer screws should do it. SWs would allow moving over the board more, so may help according to Beckmann AG's diagnosis. Finally, a plate sounds like the ultimate solution here: unimpeded board flex, bindings of your choice.

[yyzcanuck]

$489 / 10years / 30 days on snow = $1.63 per riding day.

$299 / 5 years / 30 days on snow = $1.99 per riding day.

Even with a life expectancy of 5 years (compared to 10), I'm not sure the cost of bindings should really equate into this at all.

[two_ravens]

Kinda wondering how it is you're 'booting out' with such a small boot at a relatively steep angle?

Seems odd.

Are you not paying attention? The binding does not allow enough bias adjustment - that is what this thread is about. At my usual angles I have a mile of room ahead of my toe, and overhang at the heel. At 72 deg, I have a tiny bit of underhang at the heel, but not enough. Try reading before posting.

Ok, then: Simply remove the plastic shim, flip the heel block, and take a few easy runs to verify the effect. Check the screw length so as not to punch holes in the rubber underlayer.

The Ibex bindings that I borrowed are not available to me anymore.

or replace the red board with one more suitable for your mass. Or lack thereof.

Both options are cheaper than a new set of clamps on the wrong board.

This is a custom board. I fought with the board builder for two years, as he thought he knew what I needed better than I did. I asked for my money back but couldn't get it. I did not get the board I requested. So I'll make this work as well as I can. If/when I have money for another board I'll be going to a different builder, but that will be awhile...

[two_ravens]

The OP likes TD2s but wanted more board flex, so maybe just needs the thicker TD3 e-ring to allow the board to flex under it more than the TD2 e-ring allows. A pair of TD3 center disks plus yellow TD3 e-rings and longer screws should do it. SWs would allow moving over the board more, so may help according to Beckmann AG's diagnosis. Finally, a plate sounds like the ultimate solution here: unimpeded board flex, bindings of your choice.

I have some sidewinders on loan headed my way, and enough hardware to try several configurations. :) The plate would absolutely be the solution of choice - except for the added weight. Add 3 or 4 lbs to the feet of a 200 lb guy who is fit and strong for his size, the added weight is not an issue. Add that weight to the feet of a 120 lb woman who is not particularly strong for her size or gender, and it's a deal breaker. When our wonderful gear manufacturers get those plates down to about 1 lb I'll try them again.

[Beckmann AG]

Are you not paying attention? The binding does not allow enough bias adjustment - that is what this thread is about.

Paying enough attention to realize that this thread is about several problems. Chief among them your intent to pound a square peg through a round hole with a fist full of cash and aluminium.

Try reading before posting.

Likewise. It really does seem odd that one can't sufficiently locate a small boot in a quality binding enough to avoid heel overhang at a relatively steep angle.

Regardless, condolences on your situation.

[leeho730]

Perhaps another option is to mount TD base plate directly to the board...?

Steve on Alpine plate system thread managed to mount TD base plate directly onto the plate.

You might also need thin silicone sheet, which can be bought cheaply from eBay, some sellers sell silicone mouse pads. I bought some and am going to line the board.

That way you also save money and you can loosen the TD2 binding a bit for more flex.

[kieran]

It really does seem odd that one can't sufficiently locate a small boot in a quality binding enough to avoid heel overhang at a relatively steep angle.

it may be that i am mistaken, but i suspect the OP rides with toeside bias on the front foot.

[trailertrash]

I am confused as well, I ride a larger boot on a narrower board with lesser angles.

Weird.

[D.T.]

two_ravens - I, too, am perplexed by the problem that you are encountering... Is part of the cause of you boot-out due to softer snow conditions?

Here are a couple photos of my wife's set-up that may provide some insight about the F2 Ti binding. Here are the details: the binding is a Kessler-badged F2; this is the smaller-sized binding with the heel and toe pads moved to the closest-spaced set of holes; front binding angle is 52deg; the bindings are set with 0 bias; boots are MP23 Raichles with sole length 261mm; board is 18cm wide. My wife weight about the same as you, but she is 5'2" on a good day - meaning she has less leverage on the board than you.

Feel free to hit me up with any questions you may have. It might be helpful if you posted photos of your set-up, with similar views, so that the rest of us could better visualize your configuration.

Photo 1 - overhead view of the front boot. Yes, it does appear as though there may be some overhang...

Photo 2 - rear view of front binding. On firm snow, boot-out starts to occur when the board is making a ~70deg angle with the snow. If the snow is soft, she either rides a wider alpine board (with F2 Carve RS bindings) or rides softies.

Photo 3 - binding without boot. The toe and heel pads can be moved approximately 1/4" towards the center of the center disk; this is some of the bias that you could dial in once you account for the the difference in sole length.

Edited March 9, 2013 by D.T.

[D.T.]

PS - the F2 Titanflex could also be an option as the built-in riser would require greater board-to-snow angle to get boot-out. I have two sets of these on "play" boards for days when I feel like screwing around.

Edited March 9, 2013 by D.T.

[two_ravens]

Hmm... thread drift. So I've gotten the information I need out of this thread, but there seems to be a few people who are concerned about how I prefer to set up my bindings. Here is the thing - there is nothing there that needs fixing. I have spent quite a lot of time turning screws to come up with a stance that works for me, and I have a board/binding/boot combination on my old board that works great and brings me a great deal of happiness. If folks want me to post some pics so they can see what works (and doesn't work) for one carver, I can spend some time taking & posting those photos. If people want to see them just so they can tell me I'm wrong because I don't set my bindings up like they do, then I won't bother.

But the photos won't tell you WHY my set up works for me and why your set up wouldn't. I can tell you that right now - it's because I'm not you. I don't weigh what you do, I'm not your height, likely not the same gender or age. I am weak in ways that you are not. I am strong in ways that you are not. I have disabilities that you don't have and I have abilities that you don't have. I see and approach the mountain differently. What that adds up to is this: you have found a set up that works for you and I've found one that works for me. I have no patience at all for people who don't even remotely resemble me or how and where I ride telling me that I'm wrong because I don't do it their way. I have engaged in a number of male-dominated sports and have always found that I do things quite differently from the guys...

D.T. thanks for posting pics of your wife's set up. If she is a happy carver on that gear and grinning ear to ear at the end of the day - that's super!!! But I wouldn't last 2 turns on that set up. That doesn't make either of us wrong, just different.....

[two_ravens]

And back to our regular programming: a very kind person with the interest and means set up some F2 Race titanium bindings in both medium and small to see what the bias adjustment range would be with a Deeluxe mondo 23 boot. It comes out to about 25mm total range of adjustment for both sizes. If I remember right, that is about the same as the SnowPro Race and the unmodified Ibex. The Nidecker Carbon Comps give a little more, but to measure exactly I will have to take them off the board.

I haven't taken my TD2s completely apart to see what the full range is, but at a glance I can see that it is at least double that. With 3 different holes in the base plate, slots in the toe and heel blocks, and flipping the toe and heel blocks the right way, you can get a crazy amount of adjustment with these.