My first carving: do I improve?

[Perlyshko]

Hallo Everyone,

Last year in the end of winter I went to Soelden to continue learning carving and my gear in general. And finally after 2 year fight I did some carving. Feeling was great, ride itself exceptional, tears are coming out of my eyes when I recall the moment. Christmas is knocking at my door and I prepare my gear for Christmas rides with the hope for great carving.. even if just some imperfect resemblance of it.

Here are photos of my first carvings happened last year. I was told that I left thin line behind myself and it fits description of it.

What do you think about it? I know these are only static pictures, yet I will appreciate your advice, comments, critics as I am looking forward to meet New Year as a carver.

To carving shots I added one more picture where you could check my settings just for the case. But I should mention that settings are a bit over recommended . This was the best adjustment I have ever tried.

And one more issue, lower front side of my shins extremely hurt after one-two days of rides. Sometimes so much that snowboarding, particularly carving, turns to hell. It might be the setting of my UPZ RS10, or I might overpush it in a wrong way in attmpt to get to my lovely carving. Funny it is, but only with this setting I can carve... or it might be my wrong imagination. And before I started to carve, my shins were ok with such setting.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

Cheers and gooooood rides

[Perlyshko]

[newcarver]

Looking good! Keep it up. On your boots. I think those are a pretty stiff race model. Might want to try some softer flexing boots. If those have a softer tongue that you can install, I would do so. Had the same problem with my AF700 and installed a softer tongue. Now no shin pain and I can ride all day.

[queequeg]

And one more issue, lower front side of my shins extremely hurt after one-two days of rides. Sometimes so much that snowboarding, particularly carving, turns to hell. It might be the setting of my UPZ RS10, or I might overpush it in a wrong way in attmpt to get to my lovely carving. Funny it is, but only with this setting I can carve... or it might be my wrong imagination. And before I started to carve, my shins were ok with such setting.

Congrats!

With regards to your shins, it sounds like you are getting shin-bang. Shin bang is caused when the fit of your boots around your shins is not entirely snug such that pressure is not distributed evenly throught your whole foreleg area as you flex your boots (and to some extent, slop in the interface between the boot and your foreleg causing the leg to repeatedly come in and out of contact with the liner).

Are you using the Stock UPZ liners? A lot of people find them very uncomfortable (myself included).

As far as boot stiffness goes: I don't find the RC-10's to be too stiff in the forward lean department, as long as you have your lean adjustment set correctly. (They're a stiff boot, but the forward lean still seems pretty friendly to me). The cuff on your rear boot should be set to lean forward somewhat, whereas the front boot cuff should be more upright. You can adjust this with the little metal lever on the rear of your boots: lift it up, move your boot cuff to where you would like it to be and then return the lever to the locked position. If your rear boot cuff is too upright, it will make it hard to flex forward completely. That said: this does not appear to be your problem.

[Puddy Tat]

I personally found boots with tongues hurt my lower shins. This was true in both some old Raichle 121s and UPZ RTRs. With the RTRs I swapped the stock flo liners for a set of full-wrap thermos and the pain went away. If you have this done you may or may not need to visit a boot fitter as the thermo liners had more volume than the flo liners.

Dave

[BlueB]

Just of the bat, looking at the pics, you need more heel lift shims in the rear binding.

[BobD]

Just of the bat, looking at the pics, you need more heel lift shims in the rear binding.

Yes, it looks like the rear calf is angled beyond the boot cuff. Having the rear boot cuff/boot too upright restricts the range of motion. Try more forward lean on the rear cuff while standing on the carpet at home. You should be able to easily move up, and down within your stance.

Otherwise, you are carving in the pics, and thats' what's important

[Ian M]

This is rather a shot in the dark, but could shin bang be reduced by pressuring the balls and heels of the feet more (inclination) as opposed to steering the board with the shins (angulation)? I remember riding really angulated in the beginning, and it hurt my shins a bit. Perlyshko's photos above show moderate angulation on heel-side, but less on toe-side.

Thoughts anyone? Gilmore bias?

[NateW]

Try rotating your hips and shoulders to face more forward and less sideways. I doubt it will help with shin bang but it will help with everything else. :) Reaching forward with your rear (left) hand will help pull your body into a better position in that respect.

[Bobby Buggs]

I know the snow is good there but the Ice coast style cures allot of ills, with that being said Drop yer butt and try to keep it over the tail of your board. Im no instructor but when I have taught friends early on I always said Nothing good happens with straight legs, keep legs bent not waist and Butt down, watch what happens when you "assume the position":1luvu:

[ursle]

Drop yer butt and try to keep it over the tail of your board.

I wonder what you mean, looking at your avatar, is your but over the tail of your board?, to me it looks like it's three feet off your board, how do you get your board on edge if your tail is over the board?

[Neil Gendzwill]

On your heelside turn, that's a lot of inclination (angle of the board surface to the snow) for how tall you are standing. I would try getting lower by flexing your knees. If you can't flex your knees much maybe your boots need some softening up.

[Bobby Buggs]

I wonder what you mean, looking at your avatar, is your but over the tail of your board?, to me it looks like it's three feet off your board, how do you get your board on edge if your tail is over the board?

umm I dont know how I do it:confused:

[sabestian]

That's rotation (Bobby) vs counter rotation (you). Look at where your hands/arms/shoulders/hips are.

BTW I don't think it Bobby Buggs personally in his avatar. :)

[Bobby Buggs]

Look at where your hands/arms/shoulders/hips are.

I did:) where are they?

[sabestian]

Exactly where they should be, unlike mine most of the time...

[two_ravens]

Perlyshko, so cool that you are feeling that awesome carve sensation!!! Good for you, sticking with it until it has started to come together for you!

I have only a little advice - as I too am a new carver just starting to make it work. What these guys said about getting your hips more over the board (especially on heelside) and turning your hips more to face the front of the board should help.

What I found worked best for me was to focus on one turn at a time - so I would get everything lined up - hips forward, hands forward, uphill shoulder up a little, downhill shoulder down a little (so shoulder line is close to parallel with slope angle), then do just one turn and stop. Then I check to see if everything stayed in place, re-adjust as needed, and do one more turn. This slowed it all down enough for me to feel what I was doing and be able to put things together better. This is all I did for the month of January last year! Worked really well for me, but maybe I'm just slow?!? :rolleyes:

Have fun out there - your pics look great!!! :biggthump:biggthump

[Bobby Buggs]

looking at the pics it made me think of something I read here that stuck with me, ride from your feet upward, not from your shoulders down. The rotation thing seems to start at the top not at the bottom.

[carvedog]

That's rotation (Bobby) vs counter rotation (you). Look at where your hands/arms/shoulders/hips are.

BTW I don't think it Bobby Buggs personally in his avatar. :)

counter rotation is a movement not a position. Unless you have seen her ride I don't know how you could possibly infer counter rotation from these pics.

Bobby - I guess it's good to be low if it works for you. For me it takes a range of motion from tall and fully extended to very low and compressed at times. If I were to ride low all the time without extending, I think I would be very tired.

[Bobby Buggs]

No way I can stay in that position the whole day.... well not until early March;) Then its just about time to go soft.

[Perlyshko]

WOW! When I saw all your comments I had to go up and check if it was really my thread. :)))))) It was only few there for a while. Anyway, I AM thankful for all advices and comments of yours. Seems I will have to print this out and take it to the slope.

As I have problems to use numerous quotes in the message, I will try to summarize my replies.

So, boots. I am using black tongue that is supposed to be softer, may be the softest one between 2 I possess. Grey one looks thicker and I firmly believe that I saw somewhere specification for it to be harder – 150. than black one Although my shins hurt, I find UPZs friendly in forward lean too. Actually, once I pondered to change black tongue to grey(150) on rear boot. I have not done it yet because I did not find my reasons to be sober enough for the beginner.

As for Liners. I use FLO. If it is STOCK or not, have no clue. Did not find any feedback either on liner or on/in the box with boots. Well, I decided to try other liners if I can rent some around Stubai. If anyone knows good rental shop, I will appreciate a contact. On the other hand, I heard that only liners providing perfect fit are the ones delivered with the boot. Others might not fit the boot. Any idea about it?

Before I comment my riding style I should refer to binding setting. These were 45 front and 30+something rear. It is comfortable for me to kneel myself on the slope. Otherwise, 45 front 40 rear is recommended angle for the board.

At the same time 30+ degree on rear disturbs my curve. If I keep rear knee inside(it takes some exertions to do that), I go through curve nicely(I judge based on my personal feeling during curving and thin trace left behind). But, most of the time, probably because of rear angle, my rear knee tends to go back(out) and carve is ruined.

So, I took advices in this topic and spent an evening adjusting rears and trying carpet carving. Eventually, front angle went up to 50, rear up to 40-45(do not remember. The fact is it is over recommended). It felt very great to go down and up and see my knee being inside all the time. Also, I used pad to increase heel angle on rear boot... Rear leg bent became visually more with the last position of lock(cuff angle) on the boot. But one thing is carpet, another is actual riding.

In the past I used to challenge such setting but it was very uncomfortable to ride. Yet this time it was justified by “you could not carve at that time” and that was trueth. Moreover, last year on Belpiano I caught a carver on board of about the same scale as mine(all-round hard-boot oriented board by some german company). Yet he DID carved. And I had a feeling that his settings had been far beyond recommended for such boards. May be this time I will be successful with new ones?!

So here I would like to ask, could anyone upload a picture for carpet carving or refer to some in forum so that I could copy it slightly at home?

In carpet carving thread I saw slalom or carving boards. Mine does belong to alpine group but it is kind of all round and far away from being that slim...

There was actually an idea passing my ears by - that my shins might hurt because UPZs RS10 are produced for slalom and carving boards, not for alpine all rounds(wide boards). What do you think?

I think I had my butt over the tail of the board when I carved. I went, from my point of view, very low then... But as I was surprised by things happening(I finally started to carve) it did not last long. Then it took me while to get to carve resemblence again. Well, it is difficult to state how my position looked like as I was accompanied by skier, and I do not take seriously comments of skiers. Nothing against skiers, just it is easier to listen to someone on the same snow gear(snowboarder) doing what I am learning.

Otherwise I am learning by chasing alpine boarders. Copying their traces or styles... Then I surely over push to reach the same result and my shins go to hell. :))))) SO, if you see green helmet spying after you on the slope, It might be my head in it.

Please, keep commenting if you will have other ideas. I will gladly take them into account. And I promise to post some results after new year for another bunch of advices and comments.

WOW, thanks to you I am more excited about Christmas riding than few days before.

[Perlyshko]

umm I dont know how I do it:confused:

God, that looks divine. I wish to reach such aerodynamic position. I have to print it out.

[Bobby Buggs]

Thank you but there are far better pics out there worthy of ink. Keep in mind that is just a fleeting moment in time. I like many others struggle to be in that position consistently on all types of terrain.

I do remember being exactly where you are right now. I can tell you if you work hard on 1 or 2 things each day HUGE rewards are just around the corner.

Remember hard work beats talent because talent doesn't work hard.

[Puddy Tat]

As for Liners. I use FLO. If it is STOCK or not, have no clue. Did not find any feedback either on liner or on/in the box with boots. Well, I decided to try other liners if I can rent some around Stubai. If anyone knows good rental shop, I will appreciate a contact. On the other hand, I heard that only liners providing perfect fit are the ones delivered with the boot. Others might not fit the boot. Any idea about it?

The FLO liner you have is the liner that comes standard or "stock" with the boot. Hence it is refered to as the "stock flo liner". :)

I originally decided to switch from the FLO liners to the full-wrap Deeluxe 141s because I was getting the same pain from two different boots (UPZ RTRs currently and Raichle 121s in the early 90s) and riding the UPZ RTRs on different boards with different angles (65/60 and 50/45) and cant and lift set-ups. With the variation in the set-up and still being caused shin pain I felt it had to be with my boots not my binding set-up. When I thought about it more the pain was located mid to lower shin directly on the vertical line of the tongue. I felt changing to a full-wrap liner and eliminating the tongue might remove this pain.

I purchased the Deeluxe 141s from YYZCanuck in Toronto (you can get them in Europe) and I wanted to write to them to give them some feedback on how the Deeluxe 141 liner worked with the UPZ RTR boot. Here's the body of the email I wrote. Keep in mind I weigh 215lbs so take the comments on softness for what its worth.

Seeing as you didn't have this kind of info on putting this liner in a UPZ RTR boot, I thought I'd send back my opinions on it to you. This is after one day of riding. Sorry if these are in point form.

• I have a mondo 28 UPZ RTR boot. The Deeluxe 141 mondo 28 fit nicely in the boot (more on this later). Height wise the Deeluxe 141s are the same or slightly taller than the stock flow liners that come with the UPZ RTRs.
  
• Wow the boot is so easy to put on with the Deeluxe 141 full wrap liner. Putting on the boot with the stock flow liners installed was always quite a struggle.
  
• Changing to the full-wrap liner did eliminate the painful pressure point near the top outside of my shins I was getting from the tongue of the UPZ flow liners.
  
• Replacing the UPZ stock flow liner with the Deeluxe 141 made the boot substantially softer. In hindsight this is unsuprising as the flow liner has a reinforced plastic tongue. To stiffen up the boot I replaced the black 120 MPI tongues with the grey 150 MPI tongues (both tongues are avialiable from UPZ). The end result was that the boot with the 141s and stiff tongue has about the same stifness as the UPZ boot with stock flow liners and soft tongue.
  
• The Deeluxe 141 line has substanially more volume than the FLO liner, but not to the point where it wouldn't fit into the boot. I've got pretty screwed up feet, so I had previously had some areas of the UPZs blown out to accomodate various issues. Pain and pressure returned to these places after installing and molding the 141s so I've had these areas blown out again. I haven't ridden the boots since blowing these out, but I suspect this will solve the problem.
  
• The Deeluxe 141s seem to be much warmer than the stock flow liners.

That's my experience. Personally since switching to full-wraps I haven't had any pain in my shins. This includes buying a set of Track 225s this year for AM riding (also with a full-wrap). That being said new liners aren't necessarily cheap so I'd recommend trying the other ideas presented here first. Somebody noticed that it didn't look like the cuffs of your boots were tight enough. They could be on the right track as well.

Cheers,

Dave

[queequeg]

Somebody noticed that it didn't look like the cuffs of your boots were tight enough. They could be on the right track as well.

If the cuff is not snug all the way around your foreleg, then a (properly) heat-molded liner should resolve that as well. There are a number of different options as far as liners go, I really love the Dalbello Gold ID liner, but it's a bit on the expensive side.

http://www.dalbello.it/en-GB/technology/id_thermo/