scrutton Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi - wondered if anyone had any real world data on the performance improvements one might achieve when using a plate on a board in a race course. I've been racing a couple of years (amateur weekend racing), and have not used a plate. We race on a slipped course, so mostly conditions are not too chopped up, although occasionally it can get bad. How much time improvement can I count on by using a plate? I've read that the turning radius increases with using a plate. Is this something that you get used to, and does it help or hinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi - wondered if anyone had any real world data on the performance improvements one might achieve when using a plate on a board in a race course.I've been racing a couple of years (amateur weekend racing), and have not used a plate. We race on a slipped course, so mostly conditions are not too chopped up, although occasionally it can get bad. How much time improvement can I count on by using a plate? I've read that the turning radius increases with using a plate. Is this something that you get used to, and does it help or hinder? Your axle location can affect your radius to some degree but I really have not noticed it on any of the plates I have tried (BBP, Virus, Hangl). If you know how to change the radius of a turn on a board without plate you will still be able to do it with a plate. I don't have any data to provide as far as how much improvement you will see. Some thoughts for you, if you are very comfortable on a plate then you should see improvement. If you aren't very comfortable on a plate then you will probably have slower times. It comes down to the individual using the plate. I think it was evnewsphoto who tested the Donek plate and really didn't like the feel in a course. He is riding board only and is having good results in USASA. You will be fastest running what you are most comfortable with. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks Ink. I think I'll hold off for now. I was hoping someone was going to justify the purchase for me :-). Maybe add one to the quiver in the next year or two depending on how I feel about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think it was evnewsphoto who tested the Donek plate and really didn't like the feel in a course. He is riding board only and is having good results in USASA. I am thinking he said it was his slalom board he didn't care for it on?? Not a racer but I think that is good advice for anyone. Use what you are comfortable with. I have watched a number of riders actually go backwards in their developement on a plate. It is my belief that they are not comfortable and it erodes their confidence. Confidence on an alpine board is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utahdeafcarver Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 This is my second year racing with a Donek plate on my GS board (Prior WCRM 177 Wide). Granted, I'm just a weekend warrior now (used to train more often) but I've noticed the plate does absorb a lot of crap that I would otherwise adapt to without (this ain't no joke, I was uncomfortable on my SL board after riding my GS board soo many days; it took awhile to adapt). It IS harder to get the board back on course if you need to correct your line, but you figure that out quickly (or the more you ride it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrutton Posted March 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thanks for the info Jeff. Did you see any discernible time improvement using the plate? I added a speed-suit for this season (allowed within our rules). I think that it shaves off hundreds of seconds, but I'm not seeing much beyond that, and I'm at the point where I need to shave off seconds rather than hundredths :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Shortly after the original Derbyflex popularized the use of binding risers on alpine skis, a lot of the kids had difficulty whereby they would get stuck 'back and inside' at the end of a turn. Much of this was due to the effect of additional stack height and the attendant leverage and time delay on their extant movement patterns. Not to suggest that this same situation will arise with an isocline, but worth considering nonetheless. The primary benefit of a plate is that it will isolate your unintentional torsional inputs from the working edge. This in turn, will allow the board to track more 'true' to it's arc, which provides enhanced grip, more predictable behavior; thus a reduction in lower body muscle tension. If you are out of contention by a matter of seconds, you may want to reevaluate your approach. Quite often attempts to go fast result in going slower. Perhaps consider simply trying not to go slow? Also, the use of a speed suit can have an adverse effect if you do not also train with it, as you will be going faster than you are accustomed, and will have to adjust your response time accordingly. Sometimes this is feasible, other times, not so much, depending on how you reflexively manipulate your board. What you gain in one part of the course may very well be negated by what you have to do in another part. The easy way out is to spend money on gear. The hard way is to develop a better sense of touch and enhanced feel for glide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Only because of timing, but just finished some video analysis testing of our Boiler Plate today at Arapahoe Basin. Link to thread/video: http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?37126-BOMBER-Video-testing-of-plate-systems-at-Arapahoe-Basin-March-15th-2012 To completely over simplify, plates are an isolater. And second, they allow the board to flex in a more "true" arc, especially under the feet. This can have huge gains in course or freecarving on a not-so-perfect day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 .........The hard way is to develop a better sense of touch and enhanced feel for glide. If you read widely in the threads on Bomber the overall impression of those who like plates is clear. They soak up bumps, give you better edge hold, you can comfortably go faster over rough snow without being thrown around as much, and there is less thigh muscle fatigue. But as I found out on my recent trip to SES, familiarity with your equipment, having it respond as your brain & muscles expect, when you react by reflex not thought, is a key to success in a racecourse. A cautionary tale, at my own expense.:o I scarcely ever get to run gates and I'm in the 50-54 NASTAR age group. On my first day in Snowmass, after 6 months without being on a board, I ran their NASTAR course on my old favourite, a 180cm Riot Supercarve, must be at least 10 years old, equipped with a home made isocline plate. I've been riding this board with a plate now for about 20 days total spread over two winters. Four successful runs, all bronze/silver, with a best handicap of 43.94. I was now the top ranked rider for the season in my age group at Snowmass (out of 4 riders). Forgive me, but I was really pleased, couldn't wipe the smile off my face. During SES I proudly take delivery of a custom 180cm Coiler NSR, equipped with a 4mm Boiler plate. After riding this beauty for about 3-4 hours I take it through the NASTAR course at Snowmass expecting a great improvement in my times. Instead, I blow out of the course 3 times, catching edges, carving towards the trees, etc, etc. Not even one completed course, though the site credits me with a time for one run. I'm gutted, confidence shattered! I spend the rest of the day riding that Coiler/Boiler all over the mountain, trying to learn its' idiosyncracies, and for almost all (see below) of the remainder of SES. The following day the medical conference I'm also attending has a private NASTAR event on the same course at Snowmass. I want to take part, to show a little of what a carving board can actually do. Do I run with the brand new, brightest and best board? No, I ride the old familiar Riot and the more flexible home made plate, that my brain & muscles know how to work without thinking, all day until the race is over. Result, four completed runs, getting steadily faster as I regain my shattered confidence, and a matching best handicap of 43.94. I think a plate will make you faster. I'm a "believer" in the isocline plate concept. But a plate will only make you faster, compared with what you're currently used to, when you have ridden that plate/board combination long enough that you can make it do your bidding without conscious thought. SunSurfer http://skiracing.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=results&page=comp&compid=830957&year=2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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