Emdee406 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Of course it's possible to do all those things really well in hards, (and I'm sure you do)... remember Damian Sanders? All I'm talking about is what works for ME in my everyday riding, be that teaching, racing (softs and hards), riding pow, steeps, bumps, running courses/clinics etc. For the record, when asked I don't count myself as either a hard or soft booter but as a snowboarder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronG Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Btw, I know a certain hardboot carver that ditches snowboards altogether and hops on skis when it's powder out there :lol::lol: . Hey, I was just sitting here reading this and I take a shot across my bow. Unless this comment was directed at someone else. it's all good :):):) Wait till you see my new Rossi Avengers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omskates Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 .....2. I love riding pow in my hardboot set up. And I'm a GIRL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Also, if a Tanker 192 doesn't qualify as a worthy powder board, i don't know what does... APO, 4807, Undertaker 195, Winterstick? It's not worth shelling out for conditions that i only see around 3-5 days a year (if i'm lucky). And, an ATV in 8"-12" on hardboots, why not? Prior markets it as "a popular choice for advanced alpine riders looking for a high-performance powder board." http://www.priorsnowboards.com/boards_atv.php#profile High performance pow boards are those designed specifically for powder, not a do-everything board. I'm sure it rides adequately in the pow, but the tanker and the 3800 are the only two pow-ish boards you listed, and they each have vintage variations that make certain years better than others. Glad you found softboots to your liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Precisely. boards I've only ever met one person who rode a Tanker reasonably well in trees, and he could ride anything well in trees/ deep powder. Most people have as much trouble on those as they do on other big boards, probably for the same reasons. Still, my mate didn't ride the Tanker two days in a row: he knew that there were better tools. If you're talking real powder, you'll have most fun on a real powder board. Big boards have float, but that's only one aspect of a board's performance in powder. As well demonstrated by the Fish, it's a lot less important than many of us used to think. The board's flex pattern and tail/ nose stiffness are hugely more important, and they need to be different from a piste board. Try using the tail through trees on any "all mountain" board and you'll find it pushing you out of the powder... the tail's too stiff, see? Picking a shorter size may help, but you want some resistance on the tail... board size is as critical in powder as on the piste. There's no such thing as an "all mountain" board, unless your mountain is very restricted in what it provides. boots A second hand Fish mounted with existing race gear is about $90, is easier to lug around than a second set of boots, and it'll eat anything out there in mixed back country powder. Assuming you use the right vintage, as pointed out already. Hmm, some people here really do ride snowboards as well as type ;-) rationale As you're pushing the point on a hard boot forum, I guess you want a discussion, so there's more. I originally chose hard because I have to fly to ride, it was easier to stick with one set up, and I rode mostly piste. Later things moved on. I tried soft boots and didn't find I liked them much. I started to ride nearly all bottomless powder. I found that I was simply much faster in powder than the soft boot chaps, especially in trees. I have ridden with some good people, and I'm impressed by what the very best can achieve in soft boots. Interestingly the good guys never question my gear: they know what I know. Others often sneer before they learn the hard way (pun intended). I'm happy to ride both soft boots and hard boots in powder, but I ride hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flywalker Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Btw, I know a certain hardboot carver that ditches snowboards altogether and hops on skis when it's powder out there :lol::lol:Anyway, if the conditions present itself again, I'll try out some Burton raceplates on the 3800 with my Track 325s (I already have the gear). I figure it'll be the final comparison until I pick up another board. LOL! l often ditch my boards and ski instead of ride powder. l also have just recently bought a 3800 and mounted Burton race plates. Boots are RC10's with red tongues and ridden unlocked. Maiden voyage was last Sunday and it was AWESOME! Superb powder board that can still carve a decent turn on the groomed. 30B(7*cant)/45F and a little back of center. Loved it! Still packing my skis, though... for when the legs need a rest (^_-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Bullwings, glad you found a powder setup that rocks your world! Enjoy!!! :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 The guy in the euro one-piece and green helmet is me;having a 'terrible' :) time on a GForce 171 Blade and skiboots w/bts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I agree softies are better in powder, but hb's can be very fun if you know what you're doing. I love my 21cm wide Stubby 171 in powder and trees. +1 I'll ride powder on anything I can get into it on but if I have the choice it's gonna be softboots if all I have in mind for the day is pow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Let's check that footage again... At risk of getting caught in the cross fire, that is very much resort powder. You're riding on the pisted base. It's harder to ride with narrow boards when there's nothing beneath you, and you're not really in steep or deep enough to find the limitations of a stiff tail. But those are arguments for powder boards in bottomless powder, nuthin' to do with the boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Prokopiw Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Agree with the on piste pow.I had a 172 Santa Cruz with me at SES but didn't break it out that day because it didn't seem to be deep enough to need it.It use the same bindings and boots on it,but it's a comparatively lousy hardpack/packed pow board compared to other two boards I had there.It's awesome in bottomless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pusbag Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I ride plates and hardboots exclusively. I do not like soft boots. I prefer riding a ferrarri not a vw bus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 At risk of getting caught in the cross fire, that is very much resort powder. You're riding on the pisted base. It's harder to ride with narrow boards when there's nothing beneath you, and you're not really in steep or deep enough to find the limitations of a stiff tail.But those are arguments for powder boards in bottomless powder, nuthin' to do with the boots. Post withdrawn. My bad - thought it was a discussion about having fun on hard vs soft boots in powder, not a 'my powder is better than yours' contest. FYI, I do know what bottomless untracked pow is like - spent my entire first year of snowboarding hiking the Teton backcountry every day with a beat to heck Burton Safari that I got for $25 and Sorrel boots. Best year of snowboarding I've ever had. No problems at all with the stiff tail..... Bullwings, I'll say it again - glad you found a fun ride! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I'm 140-145 lbs and I find the RC-10 (size 24.5) to be crazy stiff even with loose cuff buckles and the spring in walk mode. Maybe it's just me and my (lack of) weight? I've ordered the red 100 flex tongues to hopefully soften things up a little more. I weigh 185 - 195. I find them to be quite loose witout the spring mechanism engaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Post withdrawn. My bad - thought it was a discussion about having fun on hard vs soft boots in powder, not a 'my powder is better than yours' contest. Why would you withdraw the post?!? Evryone has the right of opinion and we value yours. Discussion had nothing to do about type of pow, but rather the interface. Bullwings, good for you - ride what pleases you the most. Jim, 3800 is very much a powder board that can do the other things well too, not the other way round. As for me, it's hard boots all the way. While I have a bit more mobillity on softies, I got my h/boot setup to be close (floopy plates, bts, appropriate boards...). What I gain is comfort, ankle protection, power to bust through chop when I want to, higher front foot angle prefered by me for heel sides, better carvabillity when I get back to groomers. Front angle always in 45-47 range, rear angle 25-35: Tanker, 4807, 3800, Kesler BX, Proto, Steep... Proflex or Snowpro. Pics of pow quiver, maybe later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think perhaps it is you that has a poorly fitting boot! The fact you have to crank down your soft boot may be a clue? Also given that no one has made a soft step-in system for many years (with good reason) maybe an upgrade to some modern/ contemporary equipment may be needed... Particularly for effective demos while teaching. I say this as an Examiner in two countries. I try to ride the most functional equipment for what I am doing, hard boots for racing, high speed carving, soft boots for teaching/powder/racing SBX...and with a heat moulded inner and custom footbed, mine don't slop around and actually allow me to carve....and not at station wagon speeds, clocked on my SBX set up at 61.5mph. Martin - Yes I would have to say that in the last ten years I have not been able to find a good fitting soft boot. That would be true. I have tried lots and more modern binding setups and found them to be lacking in many different respects. I have tried the kind that use the heat molded liner and it does not give me the support that I desire. My Hbs have conformable liners and custom footbeds and are the bomb diggity. I don't have to crush my foot to get the response I want. Just gently clip and away you go. After first run tighten one click or when really warm tighten two clicks. Done. Part of the hb/sb dilemma seems to be a size issue as well. Small light riders seem to get the support they need from softies. I am none of that. I have personally seen heavier riders rip their softies in two twice in lesson situations. Clinic over. BTW - I am speaking as a former DCL and Examiner but only in one country. My demos were just fine though, thanks for the concern, as was my switch, switch carving and switch bumps. Happy that Bullwings found something that works for him. Great. I don't see why he feels the need to run denigrate those who don't feel the same and I don't. Square peg in round hole??? Really? I know I can 'ride the board' instead of the bindings just as well on soft compared to hard. Where a hb will shine is in the afternoon chopped chowder of a "groomed" run on a pow day when going from one untracked stash to another and you have to ride a run on the mank. How does that toe side feel there? Also in bumps, especially soft powder bumps, making GS turns through the explodabumps is awesome in hbs, not so much in the softies. It's all what you want to do and how. I don't go on a predominately soft boot site ( is there one?) and say "hey guys, I do both and you're doing it wrong". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwings Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Part of the hb/sb dilemma seems to be a size issue as well. Small light riders seem to get the support they need from softies. I am none of that. I have personally seen heavier riders rip their softies in two twice in lesson situations. Clinic over.... Happy that Bullwings found something that works for him. Great. I don't see why he feels the need to run denigrate those who don't feel the same and I don't. Square peg in round hole??? Really? Heh, my bad, I guess a little too much pot stirring... But yes, after all my time experimenting and trying out the different pow setups with HBs, it really did feel that way for me. FYI - it might also be because i'm a lighter rider at 5'9" and 140 lbs. In anycase, i found what works for me. I will give the burton raceplates and the 3800 a shot, though the next tiem i see powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Heh, my bad, I guess a little too much pot stirring...But yes, after all my time experimenting and trying out the different pow setups with HBs, it really did feel that way for me. FYI - it might also be because i'm a lighter rider at 5'9" and 140 lbs. In anycase, i found what works for me. I will give the burton raceplates and the 3800 a shot, though the next tiem i see powder. I'm a big dude, I go for softboots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 ... thought it was a discussion about having fun on hard vs soft boots in powder, not a 'my powder is better than yours' contest. FYI, I do know what bottomless untracked pow is like - ...No problems at all with the stiff tail..... The thread title may suggest that, but if you check the original post, you'll realise that there's more too it. I was concerned that the original poster may be confusing the vastly superior performance of powder boards in powder with the switch from hard to soft boots. Hence the suggestion (which he noted) to try a powder board with hard boots. Competition? I think you may have brought that with you - it's not in my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Everything performs in powder, if you can ride well. Again, I won't get sucked into the boots debate, because if you're looking for a certain flex and a certain type of riding style, either would work. I like the "horses for courses" comment. Multiple boards, with ideal setups for particular conditions is one accurate measure of a rider, too. If you have all sorts and ride them all well, you are at an elite level. The truth is, you can't say what is best. Well... Sorry... You can, but only as an external judgement. We could all gather at the top of the hill in our various gear and the ghost of Craig Kelly could sit at the bottom and tell us who rules. Ironically, I'd probably win, with no bindings and Sorels. There would, however, be a protest, because Snowman would say he's better and he's probably right, because to him, he is and this is the real point: You'll always have more fun, even sucking, committing wanton powder crimes, in your own body, than you possibly can watching someone else shred in theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arneburner Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Everything performs in powder, I strongly disagree. I rode a Virus Gladiator (17.1 wide) and it dove straight into the bottom of a foot of pow. Maybe you could ride it if you mounted the bindings all the way back, which isn't they way the board was designed to be ridden. Do you really think a 12 wide skwal would work in pow, I think not. I am not saying that this is the best, but this is what I ride in pow and wind slab at Loveland, where there is a bit of wind. I like the surfy feel that you get when you can turn with slight ankle movements. I don't feel as locked in on my turns and can hit a heelside quickly if a tree suddenly appears. Board: Nitro 178 Swallowtail- old and soft Boots: Vans Matlock with velcro ankle strap Bindings: Burton Custom-the softest binding I could find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowest Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Whatever works for you... Ironically, I just ditched my softboots for plates on my o-sin 4807... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 . There would, however, be a protest, because Snowman would say he's better and he's probably right, . Rob, it's good to see that your following along and paying attention. I for one appreciate your keen grasp of the obvious. Thanks! Pretty sure that you wouldn't take your silly noboard to the places that I go, just saying thats all, don't get mad.;) Think Snow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcaple Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 By far the best board I've ridden in powder is the Dupraz D++...... Awesome day out !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharples Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 funny this thread came up.....went on a 2 day trip over the weekend, brought the alpine board, since I was expecting hardpack and ice conditions over the weekend. (Poconos in Pennsylvania). Sat. conditions were exactly what I expected, and my old Rossi VAS performed well, however I did not expect the place to get a half foot dumping of snow overnight into Sunday. I was kicking myself for not bringing my freestyle board with soft bindings. So the only thing to do was suck it up, loosen the clips on the hard boots, shift the weight back, and somehow I made it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.