DiveBomber Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 For those of you that might be interested; In an effort to eliminate softboots all together. and race BX in "hardboots" Ive come up with this setup that works quite well. BOOTS: I started with a pair of Burton Winds, and Put the liners from my malamutes in(though id like to use some other brand, but its what i had) I trimmed the lower section of the cuff so it wouldn't run into the forefoot buckle, to allow maximum flex. On the cant adjuster, I used a dremmel and removed the "teeth" and expanded the slot so now there is free movement( I saw this on a pair of early Raichle 123's, they were made this way) On the lean adjuster: I put softer springs in, and then I figured out what ever position id normally use, then pulled out the sliding plate and expanded the hole. Lastly on the boots, I found the soft heels from my heads and put them on the Winds. NORMALLY you wouldnt be able to do this because of the (re)movable heelblock, (I found this out the hard way when the rearmost screws pulled right through the soft rubber) SO I found short screw and basically screwed the heel/ledge block to the boot then glued the heel to the block(but the front heel screws are still screwed through the rubber heel) BINDINGS Here im using Burton Race plates, with palmer risers (on a 225 wide board) BUT what ive done on the front binding, on the front bale/plate I have a 1/8" rubber sheet I glued to the top of the plate, and under it I have a 1/4" rubber piece. SO it gives me more flex and damping, along with just the right amount of toe lift (which is critical in BX so I can get as low as softbooter on the rollers, because with out that toe lift I'd be pulling up on the toe and twist the board, and pressure the heelside) ALSO what ive done under the binding is take the Bumpers from the late model stepins/rentals/physics and put them under the bindings so they binding is now suspended about 6mm. Giving me more flex and absorption. Oh and I am using the 7deg wedge in rear SO this coupled with the boots gived me tons of mobility, infact I mosly ride with the lean adjuster open, except for groom. I can rail pretty hard with the set up, more than I expected, Im using more lower foot here but I still have the support and input of the hardboots, but flex of softboots, but my calves and instep dont get killed after an hour. Im riding at 48deg Front and 33deg Rear with a 23.5" stance I could get more side lean if I wanted but wanted to keep it more performance, than freestyle, again this whole thing was aimed for BX Will post pics below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiveBomber Posted January 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 more pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 ummmmmmm why don't you just get a set of softboots. bet you'd not even have to modify anything with softies....... I don't see the point in trying to emulate softboots when you could just get some..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Yea, somebody else gets it. I love my old Raichle 123-4-5 for that reason. There is no reason we can't get a softboot type of flex and still keep some of the response & power of hard shells. using the dremel to thin the tongue plastic and trimming down the higher portions of lower shell cuff ( like the oft discussed head mods)can really transform a pair of boots into a true all mountain tool. Buell has made some Great mods on AT boots for split boarding and there's a couple good threads at http://splitboard.com/talk/viewforum.php?f=16&st=0&sk=t&sd=d&start=245 http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9040&hilit=hardboot+mods about it. That cuff hinge mod does wonders. I've thought a lot about some kind of elastomer bushing at the cuff hinge to dampen/adjust the lateral flex. It's much better response than the shell deformation of softboots. thinner thermoflex liners help to soften the flex too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 ummmmmmmwhy don't you just get a set of softboots. bet you'd not even have to modify anything with softies....... I don't see the point in trying to emulate softboots when you could just get some..... Nice to agree on something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 ummmmmmmwhy don't you just get a set of softboots. bet you'd not even have to modify anything with softies....... I don't see the point in trying to emulate softboots when you could just get some..... For me, straps & laces suck to deal with, breakdown faster and require bulkier bindings. I love my bombproof stepin plates and can get all the flex I'll ever need out of long lasting plastic shells. Why not build a soft boot with a toe/heel ledge for plates? Cause laces suck. PS K2 T1s blow drivers doors off. Did I mention that I think laces & straps are an un-necessary hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Buell has made some Great mods on AT boots for split boarding and there's a couple good threads at http://splitboard.com/talk/viewforum.php?f=16&st=0&sk=t&sd=d&start=245 http://splitboard.com/talk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9040&hilit=hardboot+mods about it. Yes but my mods are because I want to climb in AT boots and then have them ride like softboots going down. Hardboots can be made to ride more like softboots, but I need an actual reason to do it. When I am not carving or splitting, I use softboots. If I raced BX, I would use softboots since that seems to be what the courses are designed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I guess I just have weak ankles & need the support and straps crushing my feet doesn't do it for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 you are cyclically loading the toe pad screws with all that rubber in there. screws aren't meant to handle that. this setup will fail eventually. this also seems like taking the long way around the barn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I guess I don't "get it" either...... How long has it been since you guys have ridden a soft boot set-up? They have gotten pretty good you know. Add to that the boa lace system and you pretty much don't have laces as we know it. Gone are the days of having to crank the straps down. My last pair of softies lasted two years of patroling and didn't pack out. The only reason I replaced them is to get a smaller boot..... Oh well, to each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtanner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I've got to agree with Jack, this is a blown-knee waiting to happen. Those screws on the front toe-block will snap coming off an off-fall-line roller as you extend on a heel-side and you'll be done. I love the idea of tinkering and trying things. Working boots is great, but playing with the stresses of bindings...be careful. -Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
110/220V Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 you ask Graham about the hardboot and the BX...but you also adjust to the type of course.. Olympic and larger FIS =good for hard as they tend to be wide and flat XGame = you are asking for trouble with hardboot SPIA was fine with hard or soft but best if you had sheer willpower to go fast ASA= the courses change with division, OPEN class will have steeper pitch for the sake of steep rather than flow besides...you introduce too much failure point with all your gadget...with any boot you keep in mind you only have about 18 inch suspension if you are fit...if you constrict the foot from extension (ankle), you are asking for trouble when you buck off a silly transition that is not designed for speed your choice to crush your knee or ankle or a55, sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Nice to agree on something... hey! it's the other way for you! but, yeah, we concur here. BTW, I saw a guy rocking a booster strap like I have on my boots on his highbacks the other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Olympic and larger FIS =good for hard as they tend to be wide and flat I saw no HB's in the 2010 Olympic BX. Those bizarre whoop-de-doo obstacles (for lack of a better term) at the start would be murder on HB's. HB's are also worse for recovery after a collision or bobble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Yea, somebody else gets it. Says the guy with ski poles. divebomber, you know you're doing it wrong when the only guy cheering you on snowboards with skipoles. Let's hear it again for the 150 billionth time how he doesn't like softboots. Yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Why not build a soft boot with a toe/heel ledge for plates? Cause laces suck. these pop up every couple years. gimmicky if you ask me but softboots are awesome to do what they are designed to. every system has trade offs but do some things really well. the thing is at some point adding more and more weaknesses to one set of equipment to make it perform similar to something that already exists is kinda pointless and can turn out to be very dangerous. even some STOCK un modified ski boots can have issues in plates. there were some rossi boots that I was breaking buckles on daily when I was using them. is that a argument against all buckles? hardboots at this point suck at low angles........ period. I'd LOVE a hardboot that works great for 26 cm or 27 cm wide boards and associated low angles but just location of the ledges interferes with that being a even close to sane idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Says the guy with ski poles. divebomber, you know you're doing it wrong when the only guy cheering you on snowboards with skipoles. Let's hear it again for the 150 billionth time how he doesn't like softboots. Yay! LOL! ski poles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I guess I just have weak ankles & need the support and straps crushing my feet doesn't do it for me. I used to think that way, but soft boots have REALLY come a long way in the past few years. The ankle straps are far better designed. When I started snowboarding in 1998 I was always having "crushed feet syndrome" even with what was at the time high end gear. Burton boots and bindings from 08/09, lots of response and no issues. Having said that, my old, beat up white Track 700's with yellow BTS springs feel closer to my softie setup than my red/white Track 700's with red BTS springs do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 hardboots at this point suck at low angles........ period. Dont tell this to my orange Indy's with soft springs, otherwise they might stop working with my powder board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtanner Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I saw no HB's in the 2010 Olympic BX. Those bizarre whoop-de-doo obstacles (for lack of a better term) at the start would be murder on HB's.HB's are also worse for recovery after a collision or bobble. "Wu-tangs" I was working on the course doing shaping. Those things are HUGE and would be murder on HB's. And there were no HB's on either the mens or ladies side at the 2010 SBX Olympics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Now that you have gone Soft... This is really amazing, innovation at the core, making HB into SB which by the way needs to be moved to Off Topic...However since they are really HB according to Wikipedia you are still an Alpine Snowboarder Here are some mentors for you to study and learn from all sorts of new things to do now! http://www.whiteout.tv/brands-companies/m/dw6f1080/p/1/#video No one here at the X-Games uses hard shells foe BX since the ones that tried years ago gave up using them ;) By the Way... I make SB into HB so I know your urges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 http://www.whiteout.tv/brands-companies/m/dw6f1080/p/1/#video Makes me wanna get a park board.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Dont tell this to my orange Indy's with soft springs, otherwise they might stop working with my powder board they already know, you just don't yet! lol... just giving you a hard time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I've gone from my AF700's to SB323s. Added yellow top and blue bottom BTS springs. Very comfy. I can ride my SG Cult about anywhere. Do tight trees, steep bumps, launch off stuff, ride powder, and carve groomers. All but the later were doable in the AF's but a lot less comfortable. I love softer flex in boots for AM/FC type riding. Use standard SnowPro Race and Nidecker FC bindings. Might be a better route than totally cutting up a stiff race boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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