Where is Carving Headed?

[rjnakata]

When Jack Michaud released that amazing review, “The New Hotness, a freecarver's PGS snowboard review,” I was of course extremely interested in and appreciative of the article. One part that I found interesting was the “look-back” context that Jack put on the development of the modern metal alpine board.

<O:p

It got me thinking: since I’m going to be in this for a while, what is alpine carving going to look like in the next 5-10 years?

Now knowing where it’s been, I haven’t a clue where it’s going!<O:p

I have not been on BOL half as long as most, but in my short year or so, I’ve come to recognize its members are incredibly passionate and extremely knowledgeable about every aspect of the sport in ways that go far beyond me.

What's going to be the NEW "New Hotness?" Would you share your thoughts about the future of alpine carving in some possible areas:

• Technology
  
• Riding Technique
  
• Sport Popularity
  
• Equipment manufacturing
  
• (others?)

There’s a couple of facets to this: what it will PROBABLY will look like, vs. what would I LIKE IT to look like. The “I would LIKE IT to look like” ideas, however far-fetched might some day become fuel for reality.

<O:p</O:p<O:p

Thank you for your thoughts!

[sxybst90]

well according to a source world ends at 2012 soooooo i think we are at our finest! hahah:biggthump:biggthump

[Sultan Guy]

I won't speculate on where I would like to see alpine snowboarding go as a sport.

Where do I think it will be in 5-10 years?

Ours is a technical type sport and the equipment will continue to evolve incrementally as ideas get tested and then commercialized. The racing plates may eventually offer something that has slightly broader appeal. Boots and bindings will also continue a slow and steady march.

As someone who is a composite engineer I still question why wood cores are so prevalent in modern snowboard construction of all types. Wood by its nature is inherently variable and inconsistent. I use specialized foam cores that have much higher physical properties to weight ratios and have a highly consistent density. The right foam core/laminate design should have camber that lasts much longer then a wood core.

Kind of reminds me of baseball. They use wooden bats as per rules and do not obsolete all the record books. But they break a LOT of bats during each season and the bat manufacturer's will tell you that it is becoming increasingly more difficult to source high quality consistent wood. Of course it does not help the wood when the batter is juiced. :)

As small as alpine snowboarding is it will not receive a big investment in R & D $$ to further advance the equipment. That is part of the appeal to all of us.

[scrapster]

Read an article this morning on how the northeast's maple sugaring season is crashing with one of the warmest springs on record. I just hope there's enough snow and cold around in ten years to keep the winter sports industry viable. (Industry consultants I've heard from regarding future conditions in New England have been pessimistic :(--shorter seasons, less natural snow, and more mid-season melts.)

[softbootsurfer]

Pintails

Exoskeletal combi of SB and HB

More Lateral Flex influence...

Uh, Pow outside! Bye...:)

[valsam]

I can definitely say that the alpine race riding technique for recreational riding is going to vanish (it just doesn't look good anymore to me and allot of people i know)and the extremecarving full laid down body dragging technique is going to be the way to ride in the future,it might even cause a big boom of bringing allot of people to hardboots !

Also i think that PGS and all forms of alpine racing is going to lose even more popularity because it is not attracting anymore,i could barely watch the Olympic finals,i found them very boring especially compared to the other snowboard events , the ski events and even bobsledding!

[Call me jack]

I honestly think that in the next 10 years, as long as manufactures are will to comply, and produce actual entry level gear at a entry level price, this tiny little nitch sport could consume up to 10% of the snowboarding market. I think this sport can only go up from here. Not because we're at a all time low, but because there is so much or a resurgence in carving, and people trying to make their own mark in the snowboarding world.

Last year, at my small local hill i met 3 alpine guys, who showed up there regularly. This year i've met at least 7 guy, maybe more, who ride alpine.

I'm just going to sit back and watch this sport grow

[valsam]

The sport wont grow with these outrageous prices they have for alpine gear!

Why the hell is alpine gear so expensive?

I was thinking of changing to softboots just because buying new alpine gear would have cost me 3 times the money!

A couple of years ago my board broke boots cracked and heal bail also all in the same season and for a g-force blade s i needed over 1000$(here in Greece!?!?!?) over 500$ for boots and another 300$ for bindings that makes us 1800$ and for a good freeride all mountain set (very good discounts because of the quantity of offerings!)i would have spent 600-700!

Luckily i discovered e-bay that saved me!

[Transistor Rhythm]

I think poppy, lower SCR semi bi-directional boards could become a trend for hardboot riders. If you watch the playful styles of PureBoarding or CasperCarver it seems like wild fun to everybody. I think it closes the gap between hardboot equipment and freestyle mindset. Let's make fun in the first place

[spil]

What will it probably look like?

I can't predict the future, but my guess is that in the next 5-10 years the sport will continue to grow slowly, but it won't break into the mainstream. New plates such as the vist/hangl will probably gain in popularity with the non-race recreational freecarve crowd. Whenever someone talks about PGS in the Olympics, it will still be followed with "snowboarding's least popular event."

What would I like it to look like?

I would love to see PGS gain in popularity, which would need a good story for "the media" to sell. Some sort of charismatic breakout new rider, a unique story/background, or even a controversy to get the media's attention. Along the lines of any publicity is good publicity, I guess.

I think it would be cool to see alpine riding catch on with more "traditional" park/pipe riders. If they already have a rail board, pipe board, and pow board, they could also have a carving board for days when they want to mix it up. It would still be a niche, but be much more recognised than it is now, maybe even being featured in some films or magazines.

[lowrider]

If people embrace the idea to try a plate the results will be enjoyable. The trend from longer 180 + boards to boards around 160 may slow as people haul out their favorite "long board" and discover a new beast that has been unleashed with the use of a plate. The flat spot under your feet has prevented the board from carving it's true src unless its loaded. A plate will free that loaded area allowing more flex .

[philw]

Who knows?

Snowboarder numbers seem to be down this year and it's been sliding for a few seasons I think.

Skiers can go higher in park and pipe, and "tricks" are ok for 13 year olds but not hugely interesting once you discover girls.

Hard gear... I can't see that getting a lot worse - duck stance and wellies and wearing fluro are is bout as bad as I can imagine it. I guess they could go to skis if they're fed up of being overtaken on the piste.

I'd say that the opportunity is there, waiting to be taken.

[carvedog]

Pintails

Exoskeletal combi of SB and HB

More Lateral Flex influence...

Uh, Pow outside! Bye...:)

First thought I had. It's all downhill from here.

[carvedog]

I can definitely say that the alpine race riding technique for recreational riding is going to vanish (it just doesn't look good anymore to me and allot of people i know)and the extremecarving full laid down body dragging technique is going to be the way to ride in the future.......

Huh?????

We have about 20 or so part time carvers here and only one or two ride EC style. The rest are all carvers for the most part leaving varying degree of trench. They still catch a lot of attention.

Skiers here seem to be more tuned in to and turned on by a clean fast race carve. All angulated, fast, and minimal contact ( but very close to ) the snow garners the most attention when I am riding.

You said some weird things about racers before. Not sure where you get that, but not the case universally. Every top level racer that I have ridden with could carve circles around your average carver if they wanted to.

[Call me jack]

The sport wont grow with these outrageous prices they have for alpine gear!

Why the hell is alpine gear so expensive?

yeah i should've been more clear in my original post; If, and only if, the major alpine companies can get to get on the same page, and create a more inviting beginner market, will we really get to see this sport grow.

first however we're going to need to see hard boots that sell at a smiler price to softies, and bindings that are also comparable...

Boards. we really do already have boards that can handle plates, though it's a issue that could still be addressed.

I think the one big thing that could really help our sport grow is if Burton came back into the sport. But i dont see that happening until we gain popularity on our own. (Although can you imagine how cool a FP-M would be? i can see it now; Factory Prime Metal.... i'll go back to dreaming now..)

[pokkis]

I understand that snowboard racing for some people can be as exating to watch as under water rugby, both are great sports but not necessary open for all folks

But seriously sb racing is exating as long races are built properly and weather does not suck.

What comes to Ec-style, i see that properly done EC-carves will turn more heads than normal carve, seen that so many times. But certainly normal fast cutting turn is more skier like turn and it is much easier to learn,, and it will not kill your gloves and jacket :rolleyes:

[skategoat]

Burton ain't coming back unless Jake himself mandates it for purely altruistic reasons. Burton is, first and foremost, a fashion company. They sell a lot more clothing than gear. And alpine riders aren't exactly driving the trends in snow sports fashion.

I've been doing this for 10 years and our niche hasn't really grown or shrunk in that time. What I do see is a lot of kids with interest but totally lacking the access to equipment or instruction. If the gear isn't available, they just won't take it up.

I'd like to see all the alpine equipment mfgs participate and contribute to an advocacy group that will promote the sport. Loaner gear, lessons, etc. I see it in telemark. There's a group that does that rounds of all the ski hills with a van full of equipment. They advertise well in advance and then loan out the gear and give basic instruction. I think they do a lot to promote the sport. Don't know who would do this in alpine. Any volunteers?

[JakeW.]

As far as the growth of the sport, I can only speak for myself. I know that what got me into hard booting was riding with Will Garrow! Anyone who sees Will ride in person is bound to be interested in the sport. Not only does he COMPLETELY tear it up on the groomers, but he also bridges the gap between alpine and freestyle. I think a lot of people who watch someone carve on a race board find it very intriguing, but view it as a very limited discipline. Seeing someone arc amazing turns, arc amazing turns switch, throw 720's in the pipe, bust huge grabs in the park, et cetera, opens people's eyes to the limitlessness that is possible on a carving board. Since not everyone will be able to ride with Will in person, the best growth for our sport (in my opinion) is people tearing it up on their local hills!

[Call me jack]

Burton ain't coming back unless Jake himself mandates it for purely altruistic reasons. Burton is, first and foremost, a fashion company. They sell a lot more clothing than gear. And alpine riders aren't exactly driving the trends in snow sports fashion.

Oh yeah, i know. I'm just saying, the only way this sport is really going to take off is if a major player (burton, K2, Rome, GNU, ect...) get into it and we're going to have to help our selves until then. But i really do think we're doing a decent job of helping our selves.

And as for the Factory Prime metal... like is said, just a dream.

[valsam]

Huh?????

We have about 20 or so part time carvers here and only one or two ride EC style. The rest are all carvers for the most part leaving varying degree of trench. They still catch a lot of attention.

Skiers here seem to be more tuned in to and turned on by a clean fast race carve. All angulated, fast, and minimal contact ( but very close to ) the snow garners the most attention when I am riding.

You said some weird things about racers before. Not sure where you get that, but not the case universally. Every top level racer that I have ridden with could carve circles around your average carver if they wanted to.

Exactly what sounded weird to you ?

Extreme carving leaves trench there is no skidding, just carving and is much more head turning cause it may lack a little bit in speed than race technique style riding but it does the trench digging with the body much closer (exactly ON!)to the snow as possible!

Let me give you an example ,if you have ever riden a motorcycle its like someone taking a fast leaning turn and someone else that takes the same turn a little bit slower but much lower at the point he is scraping his knee and exhaust pipe with sparkles blasting away ,now tell me witch of the bikers do you think gets the most spectators going "WOW!"?

[BlueB]

As someone who is a composite engineer I still question why wood cores are so prevalent in modern snowboard construction of all types. Wood by its nature is inherently variable and inconsistent. I use specialized foam cores that have much higher physical properties to weight ratios and have a highly consistent density. The right foam core/laminate design should have camber that lasts much longer then a wood core.

I'm surprised that you didn't get flamed a bit for this statement, yet you are right on the money here. As I work with the said foame (and other) cores on the daily basis, I ask the same question to myself all the time. And even better ones can be made for snowboard/ski specific use... I guess the foam got the bad repputation when they were still in experimental phase and now it's hard to revert that. Menwhile the ski industry has quietly gone all to synthetic cores... Well, someone will see the light again, then we'll see the resurection of the cores that are consistant and posses great damping properties.

In boards, we might see the increase of use of torsion box construction, maybe even dual one. Maybe independant edge flex systems too. Damping systems built into the board. Non-wax bases.

Boots, shift towards more AT type of boot, hopefully with fwd and latteral flex tuning systems. Way lighter plastics.

Bindings, I hope to see way more compact and simple binding, yet with full adjustment options. Or, more likely binding/plate integration. Possibly propper, ski like, step-in. Plate release system wouldn't be to hard to achieve and is less dangerous then the individual binding release.

Carving sport will slowly grow as the snowboarding population is ageing. I also foresee a shift towards all-mountain and freeride setups that still carve well. Shorter boards.

[Petrol]

yeah i should've been more clear in my original post; If, and only if, the major alpine companies can get to get on the same page, and create a more inviting beginner market, will we really get to see this sport grow.

first however we're going to need to see hard boots that sell at a smiler price to softies, and bindings that are also comparable...

Boards. we really do already have boards that can handle plates, though it's a issue that could still be addressed.

I think the one big thing that could really help our sport grow is if Burton came back into the sport. But i dont see that happening until we gain popularity on our own. (Although can you imagine how cool a FP-M would be? i can see it now; Factory Prime Metal.... i'll go back to dreaming now..)

Dittos, Dittos & Dittos...

I have two nefews that want to shed their softies and try hardbootin but there is No way they can swing the cabbage required for the boots, even IF they could find them!

[John H]

I haven't bought skis in a few years(two) but my race stock slaloms and GS skis are both wood core. I think most race stock is still wood core. It just feels better. Now, having said that, I can't understand why a synthetic core couldn't feel the same as a wood core. The technology should be there.

[JakeW.]

My old Rossignol test boards were foam core, and they were some of the nicest boards I've ever been on. Unfortunately they don't sell race boards to the U.S. market any more, but the some of the last race boards they made had cores that consisted of a mixture of wood and two different foams.

[snowboardfast]

I think the sport is doing well for now. I don't think you can make alpine gear cheap as it has to withstand more forces while riding to work well. Also if you could flood the market with much cheaper gear I don't think you would get that many more folks to switch over to riding alpine. There were more shops selling alpine snowboards in Colorado than there are now back in the 90's and I didn't see very many hardboot riders then nor do we see very many now in comparison to softboots. Of course now the gear is better and more options are available. Of course this goes for softboots as well. I think that is why most snowboarders are not interested in alpine as their softboot gear works well for them and it is much cheaper. I hope we can continue to buy gear for a long time. I think the people making it now are intrested in doing this for a long time. This will allow the sport to continue for many years and I hope as long as I will be able to do it. About all you can do to help is to talk to people who show interest in what you are doing and tell them where they can buy and or demo gear.We are lucky here in Colorado to have Bomber and All board Sports as a place to buy and or demo. I have told several folks this year about Bomber and maybe they will demo a board? It will be up to them.