Apex Plate in the News

[csquared]

From yesterday's Globe and Mail (not posted on line so I had to scan and OCR the article; can't do much with the picture but we all know what they look like, right?).

There is a series of sad aspects to this article. First and foremost is the misconception that this plate will actually be profitable for anyone (with Apex and Own the Podium quietly fighting over who should make a buck here). Second is the fairly shocking price target of $1,000. Third is the idea that this could sell at some scale to the recreational market (at $1,000 they might sell 25 units a year worldwide to non-racers like me). It would be great if Apex and Own the Podium could recognize that keeping the plate affordable would be the best way to get them into the hands of the young racers who should have access to them. For Own the Podium, foregoing profit would be the best way to bring new talent up the ladder to the Olympic level. Apex should be making something modest off the plate given their investment in getting it off the ground and onto the podium.

Anyway, here's the article:

Globe and Mail, 03/16/2010

OWN THE PODIUM ]] TOP SECRET PROJECT

Snowboard engineers helped get gold, now they want some glory

BY SIRI AGRELL

Proudly displayed in the Burlington offices of Apex Composites is a piece of snowboard equipment inscribed by Canadian gold medalist Jasey Jay Anderson.

"I blamed my equipment for failure, Apex gave me the chance to credit my equipment for success," it reads.

Through a partnership with Own the Podium's Top Secret project, the aerospace company developed and produced a snowboard plate that Mr. Anderson and the alpine snowboard team used to reach Olympic glory.

Unlike older plates made of aluminum, this design is crafted from carbon fibre. It sits below the bindings, allowing the board to flex while the rider's feet stay put, creating a faster ride and sharper turns.

The company is trying to find a way to give the product a chance at commercial success.

But first, the company is renegotiating its contract with Own the Podium, the national sports funding program, which had demanded about 25 per cent of any future sales as part of royalty agreements written into each of its Olympic research partnerships.

"If I were a tougher person, I'd argue that until we get back what we put into it, they shouldn't get anything," Apex president Gerry Kavanaugh said. "But that's not the spirit with which we got into this." He invested his company's time and money with the aim of helping the Canadian team win gold, and said he never considered the project a money maker. His contract with Own the Podium,which put $8-million toward research and development projects for the Olympic and Paralympic Games, granted exclusive rights to Canadian athletes only until the Games were over, and he thought his role as a snowboard engineer would end there.

"We didn't care at the time because we actually thought there was no market for this," he said. "In fact, there is interest."

This week, hewill work out a new contract that gives Own the Podium a royalty based on his profit margin, not the product's $1,000 price tag. Todd Allinger, manager of the Top Secret program, said Own the Podium is happy to renegotiate the deal, and that royalties were a secondary goal.

"It's always good to have some research payoff and put money back into Own the Podium, so we want to be reasonable," he said. "You could kill it if you put too high a royalty on it."

Denis Rancourt, a University of Sherbrooke professor who helped develop the sit-ski being used at the Paralympic Games, said the school owns the product's intellectual property, but discussions are under way to transfer the rights to him. "I've developed a lot of things over the years, but many times, commercialization has hit a wall because the transfer was hard. I'm tired of that."

Canadian companies that manufacture sports equipment for disabled athletes had no interest in the product, Mr. Rancourt said, prompting him and his research partners to form a company called Kinops to sell it, with some royalties going to Own the Podium.

"We won't get rich," he said. "But we'd like to keep the technology in Canada."

After Mr. Anderson's gold medal run in the men's parallel giant slalom, Mr. Kavanaugh said, friends predicted that a large snowboard manufacturer such as Burton would be knocking down his door.

But the plate he designed is used in carving, a less popular form of the sport also known as alpine snowboarding.

Mr. Kavanaugh is hoping the Olympics will lead to new interest in this aspect of the

sport, and has filed a provisional patent on the plate.

If the product is a success, Mr. Kavanaugh said, he will be happy to see some of the profits go to Own the Podium. If not, having seen Mr. Anderson ride his creation to gold is reward enough.

"If we make 100 boards and that's it, at least we know," he said. "I would have kicked myself if we hadn't tried."

[scrutton]

I guess the author's a bit out of touch if they think that Burton would be interested in the product. Interesting article though.

[yyzcanuck]

OK, I know the plates will be available to the public in about 2 weeks. It looks like Apex Composites and Own the Podium have reached some sort of agreement and Apex is moving forward with a limited production run.

Initial production models will fit on the current Hangl-Spirig insert pattern with plans to make a 4x4 compatible version in the near future.

Who wants an APEX Plate System? As C^2 noted... the price will be $1000-$1050CDN.

[WinterGold]

I am very interested in plate systems and from what the public knows so far the Apex Composites plate seems to be the most advanced system at the moment. Of course I would need more details (like how it exactly works, weight, how the plate is fixed to the board, how the plate can be tuned, etc.) to make a decision, but as I am not into racing the price tag would be too steep for me.

There are some other systems floating around - none of which costs even half of it ...

Of course I know that the project has cost a lot of money and the market is not that big, but as I said, I would only buy if the price would come down considerably.

[skategoat]

Guys:

What's the price on the Hangl, F2 and competing systems? What plate is Benjamin Karl using and is it available to the public? From what I have heard, the Hangl is too stiff and too heavy for lightweight riders. Does the Apex overcome that?

How are any of these plates sold? Do you have to call some secret phone number and give them a password?

[bobdea]

Guys:

What's the price on the Hangl, F2 and competing systems? What plate is Benjamin Karl using and is it available to the public? From what I have heard, the Hangl is too stiff and too heavy for lightweight riders. Does the Apex overcome that?

How are any of these plates sold? Do you have to call some secret phone number and give them a password?

hangl, f2 and vist all are about 500 give or take.

yes, for hangls and Vists you call 303.415.1600 and give the guy with a funny accent your unique password issued by either visa or mastercard.

he'll get it shipped off to you right away. the above number is also the kessler connection.

there's others in the works and others that exist, tinkler is one in the US that's available and I know at least one other board builder is working on one.

[inkaholic]

Bobdea,

That made me laugh.

SG also.

Ink

[Neil Gendzwill]

Covering NRE on something like this is going to be tough. Best of luck to those guys.

[skategoat]

Nre?...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Sorry, geeked out there - non-recurring engineering, basically all the time and materials put into development. For stuff like this there's a big up-front effort that you hope to recover from selling lots of units. The other model is to have a client pay the NRE and own the product - no risk for you but not as much potential reward. That's usually what we do as our company typically produces one-off systems.

[lowrider]

Do you guys really think the Hangl or F2 are anything like the Apex plate????? In ride feel or performance ???

[Neil Gendzwill]

No idea. Comes down to application and budget. If your budget is $1500, are you better off buying a Coiler and adding a Vist, or buying a Kessler? If you've got $2000, does the Coiler + Apex combo beat a Kessler with Vist? Does a plate system even make sense for recreational riding? Clearly JJ loves his Apex but he's riding at a level most of us can't even comprehend.

[D.T.]

yes, for hangls and Vists you call 303.415.1600 and give the guy with a funny accent your unique password issued by either visa or mastercard.

he'll get it shipped off to you right away. the above number is also the kessler connection.

i'm glad to see that more and more people are realizing that that place is your one-stop shop.

i think his accent is Cuban.

[skategoat]

What do you think is the size of the racer market? I know it's small but if someone is serious about making it to the World Cup level, they're not going to let $1000 get in the way. I know one Dad who installed a rope tow on a hill on his farm.

[lowrider]

If you can afford it the ride is truly worth it even for weekend warriors. Presently the apex will not fit 4x4 bolt pattern but i understand mods are on the way. With the season winding down next season should bring large change to carving as we know it today. Your old front leg doesn't have to take a pounding every time out.These plates really mellow out shock!

[csquared]

Hey Lowrider, now that the Olympics are over, how 'bout showing off your homebrew Apex-like concept. Or do you have your own agreement with Pwn the Odium for the 2014 Olympics?

[Blue Bird]

ohh ohh ohhhh oh oh.....yeah whatever. leave it to the salesman and racers. maybe CK and JJA can push their equipment to the limit. the rest will argue whether 5 mm bails or 6mm bails are the way to go.

[lowrider]

Is your email on??

[csquared]

...but I haven't check my home e-mail in a while. I will go do it now.

[Puddy Tat]

But the plate he designed is used in carving, a less popular form of the sport also known as alpine snowboarding.

WTF? Ok I know I'm posting in the racing forum but I think there are more carvers that don't race than racers.

Once again The media has no idea what they are talking about.

I'll go quietly to my tar and feathering now. :p

Dave

[csquared]

I think the journalist was trying to get across the fact that alpine snowboarding is the shy cousin to the free-riding, jibbing, pipe-dropping hoards rather than to racing (which is truly marginal unfortunately).

Whatever. Bring on the plates. Let's have at them.

[lowrider]

Spent all yesterday on the slush, last day at local hill. The plate made it possible, without it my legs would not take the pounding. Unfortunatly convincing others to try one is a hard sell I may recoup my R&D costs but i don't think the average rider is daring enough to try a plate let alone spend money on one. Time will tell.:sleep:

[bobdea]

Spent all yesterday on the slush, last day at local hill. The plate made it possible, without it my legs would not take the pounding. Unfortunatly convincing others to try one is a hard sell I may recoup my R&D costs but i don't think the average rider is daring enough to try a plate let alone spend money on one. Time will tell.:sleep:

so, post it!

lets see the beast, or, feel free to email me if you don't want to go totally public but are willing to share a bit.

[lowrider]

email on???

[Corey]

[snip]

I may recoup my R&D costs

[snip]

Bolded for emphasis. Are you somehow involved with Apex? Just curious.

I'd love that same info about the plate that you're sending to Bob. My email is my username @yahoo.com. :)