Speed...

[softbootsurfer]

I see Carvers that go 50 mph...then crank a big turn to a stop ( photo ops ) . I also see Carvers on boards that do

not work until they reach 25 mph or so, (Hi John). Other Carvers are those that do non-stops and maintain a relative

constant Speed no matter the pitch, Cliff of (pure Carve) is a perfect example for me at least.

So,

Does your equipment force you to pass up a bunch of slow turns...on the way to that big one ? No Greens or Blues for You, gimme da pitch Brudda!

Are GS boards that are for Racing such as in the olympics what You use for having fun at your local hill?

What is the Speed needed to be considered a Carver?

[Jack M]

Using a long board like a 185 GS on a black slope, you do have to wait a little bit longer for the speed to build. Unless you're one of those speed demons who just goes as fast as possible without finishing round turns.

However you can have tons of fun on a GS board on blues and greens. On a good blue you can use them as normal, and they really shine. I had a great time at Stratton on mine. On a green you can do fast slalom sized cross-unders or just surf around.

No quiver is complete without a GS board.

[BobD]

It's always a compromise. What carvers crave is down time in the turn. Sure you can touch your hip on the snow on a short slalom board, but it's momentary. The most fun is in hanging out down there. So board dimensions are a compromise of what's practical, and what's fun. The further round the turn you go, and the tighter you force the board to carve, the more speed you lose, so turn shape is compromise (unless you have enough pitch). The compromise has in the past meant that a board with a radius of about 12/13M seem to work best for most people. New board designs have increased that to 14/16M, and beyond.

The less you compromise, the bigger your quiver needs to be.

BobD

[acitarella]

Using a long board like a 185 GS on a black slope, you do have to wait a little bit longer for the speed to build. Unless you're one of those speed demons who just goes as fast as possible without finishing round turns.

However you can have tons of fun on a GS board on blues and greens. On a good blue you can use them as normal, and they really shine. I had a great time at Stratton on mine. On a green you can do fast slalom sized cross-unders or just surf around.

No quiver is complete without a GS board.

+1

What Jack said. I have a quiver of 1...A 183 Prior WCR that can be utilized all over the mountain: fast on the steeps or big lazy turns/fast cross-under turns on the easier stuff. The only time I don't use my GS board is in terrain that I'd prefer to ski in (i.e. trees, moguls, powder).

[Corey]

It depends how I'm feeling, what the snow's like, and how steep the runs are. I LOVE ripping big turns on a steep slope with perfect snow on a big GS board. Change the snow to polished yellow (man made) ice and I'll leave the GS board in the car.

Basically: I adjust my speed to whatever feels good that day.

My primary board these days is a Coiler Monster 182. It just doesn't turn below about 15mph. Stupid fun when conditions are right, lame when they're not. That's why I just finalized an order for the ~10.5m radius Coiler 167 VSR that was at SES - that stick ruled for me when I want to make a million little turns down a medium run at a slow to medium speed.

[carvedog]

He's going the distance, he's going for speed.

I love long turns and high gs. Dipping a hip in at 35 to 40 sure hurts more than 20 to 25, so yesterday I was trying to stay off the snow. Didn't always work.

Lamby got some vid I am psyched to see.

Thankfully we have pitch, wide openness and no one around a lot of the time so I can do whatever I want to a point.

A one turn run doesn't do a lot for me, but I do love to give the board it's head so to speak, and GO downhill.

So, so happy after yesterdays antics. And my back didn't flare up too much last night.

[BlueB]

What is the Speed needed to be considered a Carver?

Isn't this a silly question? Whoever rails the edge, no mather the speed, pitch, gear, or even the over-all skill, is a carver in my eyes.

I've got sh*t load of boards and love riding them all - variety is the spice of life, after all? Some of them like specific speeds/turn shapes or conditions better, some work fine in variety of conditions...

However, I think that I do have the prefferences (we all do, don't we?):

Pitch: steep blue or mild black (in Western terms)

Board: medium sized (170ish), tighter radius, softer flex (for my weight)

Speed: medium (for my riding abbilities, no idea what's that in mph)

Turn shape: tighter and more finished then GS

Turn consistency: varied to suit the terrain

[se7en]

Once you are comfortable with traversing on your edge without skidding, you can call yourself a carver.

If you seek more adrenaline, oh well, you know what to do !

[Puddy Tat]

Last year on a old 1994 f67 (167cm 21 cm 10m) and soft as butter. I couldn't allow the board to build up any speed as it felt sketchy and the nose would want to fold. So lots of slalom sized, "quick hip touches" to keep the whole thing under control. I'd like another board like this that can handle what I'm throwing at it.

This year I got a Schtubby (173cm, 21.5 cm, 13.4) built for my weight. Wow I can rail at higher speeds to make a GS? sized turn or dive on the nose and tighten it up and kill my speed quick. The ride and the type of turns feel completely different depending on the speed I am carrying and what I am feeling for that particular turn. I'd be interested in trying something with a variable sidecut to really experience the changing radius that weighting forward or back could have on the size of turn and the speed you were able to carry in it.

I agree with you though. I like riding continuously without breaks for stopping, just enjoying the sensation of carving. So when the snow softens up such that cranking it hard is dumping most of my speed I go look for something steeper.

Cheers,

Dave

[Jack M]

Once you are comfortable with traversing on your edge without skidding, you can call yourself a carver.

umm.... not really.

[philw]

What is the Speed needed to be considered a Carver?

Well I'm not personally a "carver" - I'm a snowboarder, so perhaps I can't really comment. That said, some of my snowboarding involves carving turns, especially when I'm on piste. If you're going to get picky with terms, then the definition has be clear first. Where I live "carving" means "linked sideslip turns" such as 90% of riders make by kicking out their back foot. I guess that's not what you had in mind.

The whole huge boards thing is I think predominantly a North American issue, a bit like 2.10m skis were back in the day. It's kind of odd to me as although I do have a GS board, there's almost nowhere in North America I can ride the sucker as they have speed cops all over the place and it doesn't start to hum until Mach 2.

So for piste riding I go the other way with a slalom board. That can easily still get me in big trouble with the speed cops, but it's also beautiful for slaloming around the crowds at any sensible speed I choose. It'll carve at walking speed. Sure, you get hugely more kick from riding it hard, but it still works fine when simply rocked on edge and pushed whatever the speed.

One more shot at the original question... well it's not particularly about speed, as you'll see many beginners straight-lining pistes at considerable speed. On the other hand, if you can carve then you're unlikely to be overtaken by anyone top-to-bottom, skier or boarder. So the simple answer could be: faster than almost everyone else.

[se7en]

umm.... not really.

I've seen a little boy (maybe 4 the most) riding on edges as good as anyone on that slope, would I call him a carver? Yes, simple because he loves to carve. As BlubB mentioned above speed, gear, pitch, level of skillset are secondary preference to my eyes.

[valsam]

The whole huge boards thing is I think predominantly a North American issue, a bit like 2.10m skis were back in the day. It's kind of odd to me as although I do have a GS board, there's almost nowhere in North America I can ride the sucker as they have speed cops all over the place and it doesn't start to hum until Mach 2.

I think that everything depends on the slopes you ride at!

I saw a couple of guys here in Greece riding big boards over 1,78 and i think it was after they came to S.E.S but i think that for here those boards are not practical(anything over 1,71 is big for Greek slopes because there is no width and steepness!)i had a 1,85 and a 1,78 and I'm pretty big (250pounds 6,4)and with the big board there was just not enough mountain for me and after 20 seconds and a couple of turns another 20 minutes on the chair lift again but i find much more fun riding a similar board to the one Puddy Tat referred to a oxygen F67 (last year new one) yes i know it's soft and small , but with the smaller sidecut and the slope i ride mostly (it's in Bulgaria and says that the inclination is 73%!) at medium to slow speeds i carve hands down and the steepness of the hill doesn't let me loose speed even when i press hard !

And even if something goes wrong and those speeds the damage is less!

[Steve Prokopiw]

BENT! :) As in bending the board enough to ride it in the confines of the runs available to me.

Silver Mountain and Lookout Mountain where I ride the most,have narrower runs than most people would want to ride a big board on.But the added physical ,technical and tactical challenges of fitting my 210 into that environment is partly what has me hooked on it.

Silver has several runs that will take any rider to the limits and even beyond their comfort zones regardless of the length of their boards.Despite it's length I'm not always the first one down when I ride the Diablo 210 or any board for that matter,because I really like to crank as many turns as possible.My actual speed,the endorphin buzz and the smile on my face are higher though:)Because of that,I still enjoy Lookout on a big board even though the runs are fairly short.

[Snowman]

The fun begins at 185cm! It is nice to have places like Arapahoe Basin, Beaver Creek, Vail, and yes even Keystone all are xcellent big board resorts. Oh, and dare I forget to mention the Aspen resorts are the best.

Think Snow!

[Snowman]

Are GS boards that are for Racing such as in the olympics what You use for having fun at your local hill?

What is the Speed needed to be considered a Carver?

Yes on the first question. Current technology race boards are excellent free carving machines. Old tech stuff it excellent also. Some of the old glass construction Coilers are very desirable rides. Along the line of a Stienway piano, well built, very smooth powerful ride.

Question 2.

Speed is realitive.

[newcarver]

I had fun yesterday staightlining a steep blue where they had a WC PGS race in Dec. Must of been doing 40-45? Didn't do a carve though Kid wanted to race me with a 10 sec head start.

[NateW]

It seems to me that a given sidecut has a given 'happy range' of speed, where bigger sidecuts are happier at higher speeds. For me, 13m is the sweet spot between fast enough to savor a long low carve, but slow/tight enough to make complete linked carves without running out of piste or into people.

For mid-week and good snow I've got an F2 RS 183 with a 15m or 16m sidecut that's tons of fun on just a few wide runs, but kind of awkward on most runs because I can't get enough speed to lean in far enough and turn it tight enough, without lots of angulation or a bit of skidding, and those feel like cheating, takes the fun out of it.

[lamby]

He's going the distance, he's going for speed.

I love long turns and high gs. Dipping a hip in at 35 to 40 sure hurts more than 20 to 25, so yesterday I was trying to stay off the snow. Didn't always work.

Lamby got some vid I am psyched to see.

Thankfully we have pitch, wide openness and no one around a lot of the time so I can do whatever I want to a point.

A one turn run doesn't do a lot for me, but I do love to give the board it's head so to speak, and GO downhill.

So, so happy after yesterdays antics. And my back didn't flare up too much last night.

Hey Jer - I just posted that video over in the "video" section. Grainy images - I seem to loose a ton of quality when I upload to Youtube.

here is a link to it: sun valley vid

[terekhov]

No quiver is complete without a GS board.

no quiver is complete without SuperG board!

[carvedog]

Hey Jer - I just posted that video over in the "video" section. Grainy images - I seem to loose a ton of quality when I upload to Youtube.

Might have to see the full res vid, pretty grainy. Also it seems as though I look slow and fat.

Besides that - that was a ton of fun riding with you. I got out yesterday for a bit. Sucks though that as soon as the ibu wears off I start hurrrtin. Oh well. At least I can still get out a bit.

no quiver is complete without SuperG board!

I like the way you think.

[terekhov]

I like the way you think.

;) I decide not to part with my custom coiler 196sg superboard - for those 2-3 days in season (out of usual up to 100) when outside and inside conditions met. this heavy (due to length and rubber dampening, and it's like 15-20mm thick at the waist) beast in THE fall-line cannot be compared to any other board: feels super-stable, damp and dependable. after such speed day I rode other shortboards much faster, it's low speed syndrome healer for sure ))

and dual-radius like modern kesslers :) - 17m on the nose and almost classic parallel tail

that's I call speed)