Should we offer a Sub-Forum for Softboot Carving?

[Snowman]

The fact that we still have elitists that are literally presiding over their own extinction baffles me!

Wrong again. Growth has been steady and interest is at an all time high. New sign ups on this site are constant. People come here to learn about hard plate snowboarding not riding softies.

Think Snow!

[Dr D]

And just where exactly do you think these new recruits come from? Figure skating or maybe greco roman wrestling:freak3:

They are skiers and softbooters looking for something better. there is a lot of middle ground between the halfpipe and the pgs course snowman. Our community is best served by recognizing that and using it to our advantage.

If we all had your attitude we wouldnt be seeing the growth that we are presently experiencing. Lots of people came here to learn more about the carve. Many had no idea about gear or technique or anything. they just saw someone carving and said I have to learn how to do that. Everyone has to start somewhere and softboots is where most of us started. In my case sorels and duct tape

[Snowman]

And just where exactly do you think these new recruits come from? Figure skating or maybe greco roman wrestling:freak3:

They are skiers and softbooters looking for something better. there is a lot of middle ground between the halfpipe and the pgs course snowman. Our community is best served by recognizing that and using it to our advantage.

If we all had your attitude we wouldnt be seeing the growth that we are presently experiencing. Lots of people came here to learn more about the carve. Many had no idea about gear or technique or anything. they just saw someone carving and said I have to learn how to do that. Everyone has to start somewhere and softboots is where most of us started. In my case sorels and duct tape

Gotta call bull**** on this.

Think Snow!

[emorris]

Growth has been steady and interest is at an all time high. New sign ups on this site are constant. People come here to learn about hard plate snowboarding not riding softies.

But would it not be beneficial to make a forum that would help transition some from softies to hard boots? I doubt that you could convert 100%, but every little bit counts. In my mind, its sort of like marketing inertia. The more people who can be converted, the more convert.

I am not suggesting that we have a section for rails, boxes and Back Side 1800 Super Quadruple Inside Out McTwists, but what about people who carve in softies? It's still carving. Today there is no great boot/binding interface that allows the lateral stiffness of a hard boot using soft boots. What if that were designed? What if there were a binding/boot interface that allowed the forward angles of plates, the lateral stiffness of plates while wearing soft boots? That would be good for the sport and good for business. Would that fit better into the definition of carving. Or is it still No soft boots, no matter the riding style?

I reiterate my vote for YES. I ride hard boots and plates, but I started in softies. It was very intimidating to start posting here. I felt like I needed to get the equipment and start riding it before I started posting. I think that anything we can do to make CARVING easier to enter is better for all of us.

[Alaskan Rover]

"Yes, we can embrace them which is why I voted yes. But that doesn't mean we need to talk about softboot stuff on the hard boot forum. Make another forum for soft booters. The hard boot forum should be about hard boot stuff..."...posted by Heroshmero.

That's odd...I could have sworn this forum said: "Carving Community"....I didn't realize that it somehow subliminally said "hardboot forum". Sorry, my mistake. I'll have to put my 3-D Subliminal Message Glasses on ($34.95...at Rite Aid). Okay...I have them on now, and be danged if it still says "Carving Community". And now I see that looming large in that title is the word "Community". Isn't "community" a place where people with common interests get together? And one would, upon application of logic, presume that from that title, that the common interest is "carving".

I still don't see where it says "hardbooters only...all others go away". I guess maybe I went too cheap on these subliminal message glasses. Dang. Wasted $35 bucks!!

[Buell]

Snowman, what do you propose the powers at BOL do with all those who clearly want to discuss topics about softboots?

[Dr D]

He doesnt have an answer:lurk: He just cried BS and took his plates and went home:eplus2:

[Snowman]

Do I really have to list the boat load of other web sites more befitting soft boot riders for your or can you handle that on your own?

Think Snow!

[emorris]

I cannot agree with your position. I read the subtitle "carve/hardboot/alpine snowboarding" as carve, or hard boot, or alpine". Any other interpretation would have to make the subtitle something like:

Carving Community

This is the mother of all carve/hardboot/alpine snowboarding discussions, but only for those who ride the following boards: Any Burton FP, 174 Prior 4wd splitboard, Hot Logical 172, Nidecker Custom GS 168, Prior WCR 185 custom, Mistral Sonic 173, Nitro Torque 169, Rossi Throttle 167, Donek 185 GS Metal proto, Ogasaka 185, or 2x197 Sims Burner.

AND

Raichle with BTS

AND

TD2, TD3, TD3 Splitboard binding

That would make a pretty small community. Exclusive for sure.

I'm not looking to make bad blood, but... really!

[Snowman]

[Buell]

That's odd...I could have sworn this forum said: "Carving Community"....I didn't realize that it somehow subliminally said "hardboot forum". Sorry, my mistake. I'll have to put my 3-D Subliminal Message Glasses on ($34.95...at Rite Aid). Okay...I have them on now, and be danged if it still says "Carving Community". And now I see that looming large in that title is the word "Community". Isn't "community" a place where people with common interests get together? And one would, upon application of logic, presume that from that title, that the common interest is "carving".

I still don't see where it says "hardbooters only...all others go away". I guess maybe I went too cheap on these subliminal message glasses. Dang. Wasted $35 bucks!!

The Carving Community description does say "This is the mother of all carve/hardboot/alpine snowboarding discussions"

The Off Topic forum description says "Anythings goes! All topics that are non-alpine snowboard related"

The Video forum description says "A collection of hardboot'n video links"

The Photo forum description says "Serious Alpine Snowboarding eye-candy and photog tech discussion."

Under Classifieds it says "Buy and sell hardboot gear"

Equipment reviews are also hardboot specific in their descriptions.

FYI Alpine snowboarding is hardbooting. If you want to argue that the word "carve" in the Carving Community description allows softbooters, I refer you to the Off Topic description which says "All topics that are non-alpine snowboard related."

Obviously, all of this is very loosely interpreted, but you cannot say this forum and its descriptions are not about hardboots.

[carvingchef]

I had a few minutes to waist and keep myself entertained so I looked at the quivers of everyone who posted on this thread (including Fin)

I am sure that different people will draw different conclusion but regardless of how you feel or what you think here is the reality

Out of 46 different members who posted on this thread so far at post # 120

3 have nothing posted in their quiver

3 have softboots only in their quiver

20 have harbdoots only in their quiver

20 have hardboots and softboots in their quiver

feel free to check and verify if you like, it will be easy to update if other members will post

I said it before but I’ll repeat myself

we just need to accept and respect each other and our choice of gear whether we think we can carve or not

getting better at carving is and always will be a work in progress regardless of what gear is being used

[Dr D]

Do I really have to list the boat load of other web sites more befitting soft boot riders for your or can you handle that on your own?

Think Snow!

Perhaps if I had any interest in riding substandard gear in a duck footed butt hanging stance whilst flying thru the air and trashing said gear on iron objects....... But I dont look at the picture does it look anything like a jibber setup? you need to get over yourself you aren't that cool.

I am here because I love to carve period. I ride alpine gear and alpine angles on all but my big swallowtails. I challenge you to come down a couple notches on the hardboot rhetoric and help us build a bigger alpine community.

[Buell]

Come on Snowman, it is a question for real consideration.

Snowman, what do you propose the powers at BOL do with all those who clearly want to discuss topics about softboots?

[Dr D]

Plus I really love laying trench around stuck up hardboot thugs like you with equipment and angles you say can't be ridden:biggthump

[Dr D]

things grow and change every day. I would suggest that alpine and hardboot are not necessarily one and the same. clearly my set up isnt jibstyle and its not hardboot. But is it not alpine? I would suggest that it is alpine but not hardboot. a forward stance on a directional board high angles ridden with alpine technique ITs alpine.

WAIT maybe I should start my own website and trash everyone that tries to log on that doesnt have exactly the same gear as I do:lurk:

[Snowman]

G-Force and Sword both have a soft boot alpine style riding emphasis and a web site also. Might be a good place to start for all of you so intent on trying to ride alpine in soft boots.

Think Snow!

[Snowman]

WAIT maybe I should start my own website and trash everyone that tries to log on that doesnt have exactly the same gear as I do:lurk:

How exactly is it that I have trashed you? Did I say you suck, you cant ride, you have crappy style? I don't recall doing so, but if I have please feel free to remind me, and provide exact examples. I am just saying find a more appropriate web site to discuss soft boot snowboard riding. That and work on your skin thickness, it seems to be a little thin.

Think Snow!

[Alaskan Rover]

Buell, I was talking specifically about this particular forum...the "Carving Community" forum. I haven't visited ANY of those other forums on the site. But I do notice, and someone has pointed out in parallel, that in the subtext of this particular forum it says: "The Mother of all carving/hardboot/alpine discussion groups". The way it's worded makes the sub-categoty "carving/" fairly non-definitive, and thus non-exclusionary.

Given that, though....there is one term i have NEVER understood, and that is the terrm: "Alpine". What?? As if there is such a thing as "Nordic" snowboarding!! In my humble opinion, and I may indeed be quite wrong, ALL snowboarding is ALPINE. So, what's up with the term??? Just askin'.

[Jack M]

actually I think a better idea would be a beginners forum, but you could toss softies in there.

nah. beginners on hardboots = carving community. whether they are beginner snowboarders or beginner carvers.

[MUD]

1st your statement most of the members on this forum come form soft boots is B.S.

You sir are OBVIOUSLY a skier......

[Puddy Tat]

For what its worth I voted yes and say give them a sub-forum. Softboots and sidecut are basically a gateway drug which present a more socially acceptable way to get your buzz.

Eventually you move into hardboots and start wondering where all your money went, then you find you can't remember those days that occur between carving days. You get antsy and irritable in the summer when you can't get a real carving fix.

Give them a forum... BOL is a way for Fin to attract people to HBing. This entire site (Facebookfor carvers) is a way for him to grow the alpine world. Somebody else said it the level of physical fitness and technique required to ride a hardboot carving board is way beyond what your average SB'r can muster. I let a friend who throws 540s try plates he lasted about an hour and a half before he was exhausted. He was completely unable to get over the locked ankles feeling. In spite of being a decent rider and an ok SB carver, he won't try plates again. I think he was frustrated by the learning curve. My gut feeling is a huge number of SB'rs feel that if they could throw on a pair of HB's and an alpine board then they could instantly lay out a carve.

I started a thread earlier this year about the accessibility of our sport. There just isn't any. And when most of the SB world refers to skid turns as carving you're going to have a tough time expanding without somewhere to educate the masses. SB'rs need somewhere to start.

Dave

[Alaskan Rover]

Back to that term "alpine"...can anybody explain the genesis of that term???...I mean, as it applies to snowboarding. The only thing I can think of is that it an old term, from back in infancy of snowboarding, when most boarding was still outlawed at most alpine areas and was thus relegated to the park and pipes, which are not necessarily 'alpine'...in nature. As a matter of fact, back in the day, many ski-areas had their jib-parks and pipes in unused parking areas and off-slope areas, because the boarders were not allowed to get tickets nor take their gear on the trails. That was a LONG time ago.

The only reason I ask is because I guess all the remote boarding I was doing on various peaks in the Chugach Range and Alaska Range of Alaska and the St. Elias Range of the Yukon Territory must NOT have been "Alpine" boarding. Gee....I wonder what it was?? ;)

Gravity IS life.

[Dr D]

SNowman I don't feel you have trashed me at all. I do feel that your attitude is harmful to our sport. The ONLY reason Fin operates this board is to attract new customers to buy his product. Of course there are lots of other reasons but this is the purpose of this site and it is as it should be. The idea of adding a softboot specific forum is just a natural addition to this mission. The fact that he even asks us what we think about how he runs his business shows the tightknit comraderie of our sport and is a rare a beautiful thing. personally I don't see what your problem is with the idea. It seperates the (offensive) softboot chat from your clearly more advanced hardboot chatter. It provides a midway point or a "gateway drug" that will and does help jibbers become carvers become hardbooters. In a world where we are less than 2-3% of the snowboard population we need every edge (no pun intended) we can get to compete. When the community grows so does the availability of funds for new prototypes and new innovation that our sport so desperately needs. The work that fin and bruce and prior and others are doing on their own dime is incredible but so much more is possible if we can turn a few hundred carvers into a few thousand and so on. your attitude on this is a brilliant shining example of my earlier statement. you are trying to preside over your own extinction and you don't even know it.

SHARE THE LOVE BRO ITs all about the feeling of laying over and sucking up the G's not about the purity of the Breed. you come off like some kind of snowboard Nazi and it is offensive to many. I personally could care less about your rhetoric but it is important that someone voice discomfort with your attitude lest those looking in from the outside think we all are like you.

hate me if you want to love me if you can man I am happy either way

[BlueB]

I vote NO.

No segregation needed. Carve is a carve. I don't mind discussing the things, with our soft brothers, in the main forum.