Hardboot set up on a powder board

[tbills]

Hey guys, has anybody used a hardboot set up on a powder board in powder conditions?

I have been riding hardboots for almost 20 years and am headed to a 7 day heli trip in Cananda in Feb. In the last 20 years I have strapped on the softies maybe a handful of times. My friends think Im crazy but even on huge powder days at Vail and Steamboat I break out the Donek Free Carve and get off the beaten path, in to the bowls, trees, glades where ever.

For this trip I definetely plan to procuere a me a poweder specific board but am considdering wrenching my hard boot set up to it. Anybody have experience with this? Thoughts?

I can adjust the angle of my boots so that I'm not as fwd as in a carving stance, this works pretty well on powder days or when the groomers are really soft.

[shane groshong]

I would ride something big and floaty. Many of my friends and I ride tankers with plates. One buddy of my has done many heli trips and his favorite board is the tanker 187 helicat, and a 200 for the wide open faces. Hope this helps.

[b0ardski]

I've always used plates on pow boards, you should be fine as long your not #200+ and doing power carves in rough conditions.

Of course I think laces & straps are a squishy pain in the as... I mean foot:rolleyes:

[Dan]

Thumbs up for plates on powder boards. I'm a 27 cm boot, and ride hardboots on a 178 cm Osin 4807 on deep days. Works great. I do slacken my angles quite a bit. No rocket science in my approach, just slacken the back boot until heel and toe are just inside the edge, then put the front foot 5-10 degrees steeper than that (I like more splay than most).

Quid pro quo for this information: come back and post sick powder photos from your heli trip.

[dredman]

This is my powder ride.

Prior Pow-Stick 176 23.5 waist.

I ride it with 50 degrees on the front and 45 on the back with size 27 Deeluxe T700s.

Big boat nose, nice taper, narrowed down for hard boots by 1 inch or so.

I usually ride the tops of my boots as loose as possible when in powder. And/or switch to yellow springs (soft) in my BTS.

It is a wonderful ride in the deep pow, soft crud and even carves the groomers respectfully.

It is very stable at wide open speeds in open areas and handles tight trees much better than one would expect for a 176. I can usually keep up with Johnasmo on his 160 Fish in the tight trees.

I would highly recommend one!!

[carvedog]

Oh yeah baby. I ride plates everywhere on everything, except some teaching on the bunny hill.

I think it is the superior tool for almost all situations. And the stability you feel at mach looney speed is outstanding.

When I was heli skiing they have this farming the pow routine they were trying to pull which is about making little tight turns right next to each other.

So I would wait until everyone had gone. Open it up to about 50 and turn at the very outside of everyones tight turns. It was kind of like going behind a water ski boat. A bit of wake and chop ( crossing the others tracks ) and then a fat, sweet, high speed turn that would throw a huge wall o snow up. God that was fun.

The outside turn and that I would average about 2-3 times the speed of the skiers there, made the guides start taking notice a bit. Then they let me rip a couple of slope first...........

ahhhhhhh..

Have a blast. Where you goin? Have you helied before? And welcome to bomber.

[BlueB]

Thumbs up for plates on powder boards. I'm a 27 cm boot, and ride hardboots on a 178 cm Osin 4807 on deep days. Works great. I do slacken my angles quite a bit. No rocket science in my approach, just slacken the back boot until heel and toe are just inside the edge, then put the front foot 5-10 degrees steeper than that (I like more splay than most).

2nd this! 4807 with plates rocks! I used to ride her with about 10deg splay, but now I go for more. Like 45/25, 45/30, or so.

On the side note, swallies are not ideal boards for tight steep trees.

[thebionicman]

I run Cateks on a LibTech Doughboy. Its a blast and I am only 5'9". I put it on the hardback and it turns like a SL board.

[Galen]

Yup! My 4807 and Fish, works great. I also ride with my cuff a bit loose, just enough to keep the buckles from coming undone. Set the front foot about a 1/2" over the edge, the rear about 5* less, depending on board,personal choice, of course.

[newcarver]

I ride a SG Cult 169 in powder and it works great. I do losen boots forward lean up with the RAB springs set to softest preload. Reduce angles some. Depending on the board, might set back a little too.

[crucible]

I have ridden plate bindings on my freeride and powder boards for the past 20 years, I have tried softboots and highbacks, as well as the Burton SI and the K2 Clickers and always come back to plates.

I use plates on everything from my 185 Winterstick Swallowtail to my freeride Winterstick Severe Terrains and a 166 Splitboard.

I like the way they are lighter and lower profile when folded, so that when you strap the board onto your pack it carries tighter and cleaner.

I also appreciate the fact that they are easier to get in and out of when setting up before dropping in. I also find plates easier to get OUT of when you reach a cat track or logging road and need to free up your back foot.

I use Raichle or Dynafit ski mountaineering boots on these powder set-ups, mainly because I like the softer, surfier flex for powder riding and appreciate the traction and the convenience of a full Vibram mountaineering sole on these types of boots.

I also tend to ride steep terrain on these decks, so I love the compatibility of the plate bindings and ski mountaineering boots with snowshoes like Verts and full step in crampons.

[gus]

lib tech-litagator_plates

winterstick-tom burt_plates

glissade 180_plates

all the time.

[Mr.E]

My biding set up is a little different then most- I keep the front foot pretty well at the same angle regardless of board width and modify the rear set up. It seems like the best balance (for me) between keeping the riding ergonomics the same between boards and still keeping pressure to the edge. One pair of boots for GS boards and swallowtails!

[Bobby Buggs]

Yeah, 4807 in Pow for me

[RCrobar]

Hello

Up until a few years ago my response would have been the same as all the previous posts, hardboots everywhere and all the time. My view has changed during the past few seasons, so I will respectfully play devils advocate for this post. For the record I have the better part of two decades riding plates in powder in Northern BC.

When I read about guys riding powder I wonder is this means a few inches of snow or very deep bottomless stuff.

In powder that is deep enough that you are truly floating and not hitting bottom, I personally prefer soft boots and a powder specific board with a more traditional flat softboot stance. For me the advantage gained with the mobility and fluid feeling of softboots, particularly laterally mobility, outweighs the 'power' factor that hardboots offer. The ability to trim the board out, tip to tail, when floating is one of the key advantages that softboots offer.

The jury is still out for me in powder that generally has a firm bottom that can be pushed off of when riding. In these types of conditions I generally prefer hardboots and a flatter alpine-ish stance set-up. Being able to push off the bottom, for me, lends itself better to the power that hardboots offer.

As your attorney, if I was going on a helli-trip to BC, I would recommend that you pack the softboot setup as well.

Hope you have a great trip.

Rob

[Steve Prokopiw]

Designed to kick ass anytime,everywhere.

[philw]

When I read about guys riding powder I wonder is this means a few inches of snow or very deep bottomless stuff.

Yes, that's often a confusion people have. Plus there's the issue of the type of terrain. I've 25 years of BC-based heli experience, mostly Wiegele but also CMH and a handful of other operators up and down the place. Bottomless snow is not the same as resort powder, however deep the latter may be, on or off piste.

I ride hard boots all the way, can't see why anyone would use soft stuff. Here's a review of the board I rode last season with a shot or two of it in action. A lot of people talk about lack of flexibility and "stiffness" when it comes to alpine riders: no one's ever suggested I suffer from those. The boots just give me control over the board, in my view allowing me greater flexibility, not less. Soft booters find it hard to keep up through the trees.

Speed-wise, boards are obviously faster than skis, which is why you should let the skiers go first. You shouldn't have to cross any other tracks, although it's nice to be polite about the snow (ask the guide if they need to farm the space - usually they don't). I generally start with the tail-gunner and pass everyone on the way down. If you catch the guide you'll need to reduce speed to match his, so the trick is to avoid that. Snowboards are fast, snowboarders on hard boots are fastest. I ride short tapered boards, which are slower than the long boards many people here favour, yet I'll still pop out of any forest ahead of anyone on that type of gear, irrespective of who goes in first.

Under no circumstances would I advise you to use a "free carve" board in heli conditions. That's a sure fire way to ruin a trip on day 1: this is not like resort powder, which is ridable on any board in my experience. Unless it's your own heli there's no space to carry a spare board: what you take is what you ride. I saw a local kid with a park board swim 1,000m down a beginner run to the pick-up because he could not make one turn on his tea-tray. That's an expensive swim.

Beg, borrow, or hire a powder specific board. Wiegele's have a room full of them which are included in the price (plus the ski shop boss is a hard-booter). I can't remember what CMH are doing these days. Other operations (eg Powder Mountain, with whom I have some affiliation) have some powder boards they'll lend you if you ask nicely. If it's your first time then I'd recommend a Fish-type board (you can't use an actual Fish as hard bindings no longer work on them), but there are lots of similar boards. These all work perfectly with hard boots. If you ask them for advice, talk to someone who actually snowboards. You get more conventional (and faster) ride from Malolo-type boards - a bit more length, a bit more tail, and a bit more slash. If the heli operator has a board shop then you can try them all.

I just take my slalom board along and swap my bindings onto a powder board. I used to run a bit steeper on piste, less in powder, but now I don't bother, running both at the same fairly mellow 50 degree parallel.

STs are very, very seldom seen in BC heli accessed terrain. In mulltiple-millions of vertical meters I've never seen anyone ride an ST two days in a row in BC. I have seen people transition from stroking their STs to stamping on them on several occasions however. Some of the Monashees runs are all trees which is probably a factor. If you're asking about this here, then one of those is a bad idea.

[b0ardski]

I my rather biased opinion Raichle 123-124 3buckle boots are powder specific.

With 1 or both cuff cants loose & light weight thermoflex liners I get surfy lateral flex with low angles, less foot pain, more edge control on streamlined(i.e. less bulk in the basket), unbreakable, stepin binders. These boots go on & off like bedroom slippers, tighten or loosen with mittens on, and can be used with skis or crampons if the notion strikes me.

The only advantage to straps & laces is tweaking airs which I am happy to leave to the under 40 crowd.

PS burton drivers 9, & used once flows for sale

[RCrobar]

Hello Philw

I've 25 years of BC-based heli experience, mostly Wiegele but also CMH and a handful of other operators up and down the place.

Would you say most riders/customers at Wiegele's, who are snowboarding, use hardboots or softboots?

Cheers

Rob

[emorris]

b0ardski, what is the fourth board(s) from the left?

[Mr.E]

I was talking everything from east coast "dust" to Utah snorkel.

[tahoetrencher]

fourth board from the left? counterfeit swing-bo

[b0ardski]

thats a Hyarc; some doctors idea of a better mouse trap:rolleyes:

a swingbo is like a snowboard split lengthwise to emulate a pair of skis; whereas the hyarc articulates like a tractor trailer, or a front loader, both are a bit strange to ride. do a search for swingbo, or deuce (newer version) and you'll find a couple old threads discussing them.

I use hardboots on the hyarc but neither board is good for powder

[crucible]

Hello Philw

Would you say most riders/customers at Wiegele's, who are snowboarding, use hardboots or softboots?

Cheers

Rob

My bet would be that the majority of them are in softies- just because of the fact that softies occupy 90% of all snowboard boot sales...

[Guest shrederjen]

My Dynastar 3800 ( I ride the 163, but it comes in a 169) is puuuuurfect for riding pow in hard boots (or soft). And, it works great in the trees, too.