Ready to go through this again?

[martyagt4]

http://business.transworld.net/features/granite-peak-bans-snowboarders-from-skier-only-terrain/

Beginning this season, Wisconsin’s Granite Peak Ski Area will be restricting access to three of its runs to skiers only.

“Skiers have told us that the rhythm, turn radius, and visual orientation is different for skiers and snowboarders, and that they would enjoy a few runs dedicated just to skiers. We are now responding to this request by the dedication of three runs for this purpose.”

[KingCrimson]

And that's why you have a knee injury and must ride a specialized monoski which grants you the same rhythm, turn radius, and visual orientation (almost..) as any world cup racer.

Seriously, that's ridiculous, and it looks like those are some of the better, emptier runs for carving, being out of the way as they are.

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

Well, I was planning on maybe going up there for a 2 day trip to check out the place, but that won't be happening now...

I will be writing a stern, yet polite e-mail informing the staff of this... Here is what I sent in the e-mail:

I would like to comment on your decision to close down 3 runs to snowboarders. I feel that this is a completely unwarranted and uneducated decision on your part. I am a rider of 14 seasons, an AASI Certified Instructor, and have many seasons of snowboard racing experience to boot. I see no reason why any competent snowboarder needs to be "banned" from any area at a snow resort.

You cite that snowboarders having a different "rhythm, turn radius, and visual orientation" as your reason for the ban. First of all, I find that statement to be incorrect. If I am riding my hard boot setup, my visual orientation, rhythm, and turn radius is nearly the exact same as skier that is making a tighter, GS style turn. If I switch to my Boardercross/All Mountain setup, my turns mimic a turn very similar to that of a slalom racer. Again, the way that you chose to word the reasoning behind the banishment sounds very foolish and uneducated on your part.

Based on your stated reasoning, it appears to me that your problems are not so much with snowboarders specifically, as it is out of control people, on BOTH skis and boards. I feel that your patrons that complained to the management are stereotyping snowboarders. I thought that the skier/boarder wars of the 1990s were long since over, but it appears this simply isn’t the case. As a veteran of many seasons here in the Midwest, it has been my experience that there are the same amount of idiots on skis as there are on boards. The problem comes in people, as a whole, not knowing the Skier/Boarder Code and proper slope etiquette.

If my views on this are off, could I please get a more in-depth explanation on this situation? Like I said, this isn’t the 1990s. Skiers’ “elitism” should be long dead. Skiing and Snowboarding innovations have fed off of each other and the sports are closer now than ever before. Making a rule like this sets the entire snowsports world back 15-20 years.

As it stands now, I was planning on making several trips up to Granite Peak this winter. Each trip would have consisted of 2-5 people buying multi-day lift tickets, food, lodging, and other odds and ends. If these rules are enforced for the 2009-10 snow season, we WILL NOT be going to your resort. Again, I feel that this line of thinking is archaic and elitist. We will gladly take out money to resorts like Cascade, Devils Head, Norway Mountain, Marquette Mountain, Indianhead, and others that welcome boarders with open arms. I also will strongly encourage friends and acquaintances to choose to spend their money elsewhere as well. I hope that you strongly reconsider this decision.

Thank you for your time,

Derek Krause

(815) XXX-XXXX

XXXXXX@aol.com

[MUD]

Great letter Derek!

REMEMBER, if you are going to communicate with GP, PLEASE BE CIVIL!!!!

The last time something like this came around, the hate mail did us no favors.

Please follow Derek's lead.

Thanks.

[Phil]

I would like to add that there is no "skier turn" and there is no "snowboarder turn". To try to reason with people (who are unreasonable) by telling them that you make turns like skiers is actually using faulty logic to combat faulty logic. You were specific about SL and GS turns, though which was good. However, we should not even entertain the idea that they are different at all. At every level of ability on both skis and snowboards, you will find that there are people who enjoy a certain style and certain types of turns. I'll bet that almost everyone here (who carves a board) who skis makes killer carved turns on their skis. If I go out to ride around a prejudice bunch of skiers and I make GS turns, I will get all kinds of crap for it. The usual comments: "I don't know why you have to ride as if you are some kind of racer or something", and "You are making ruts all over the hill, you are going to cause someone to fall", etc., etc. You have heard them all. On occasion, I have gone in and changed over to skis and come out to make the same turns. My ruts aren't nearly as deep, but everything else is the same. Do you think that I get ANY complaints? No. All of the sudden I "fit in". I have even rode the lift with people who don't remember me from an hour earlier when they made their asinine comments. Several times, I have gotten compliments on my turns!!

Money talks. The argument that "the turns are different" is a Red herring. Trying to combat that Red herring will only cause it to be replaced by another that they think that the public will buy.

Telling them that they are going to lose your business altogether (and presenting it in a civil manner) is the way to go. If the money lost from the snowboarders turns out to be more than the money lost from the skiers who wanted their own trails, they may reconsider.

As it stands, this may actually be a good decision by the resort. I am not saying that I agree with it at all, but if they keep their skier base happy AND have plenty for the snowboarders to do, they may benefit greatly from it.

[Algunderfoot]

Hey Marty,

Thanks for the heads up...fired off my thoughts to Granite Peak, albeit respectfully. That'll be four of us who won't be riding there at all this year. We see this (restrict the masses, due to the shortcomings of a few) mindset over and over and it will be the death of us all I'm afraid. If only we could bring ourselves to whine as loudly, we might get the respect we deserve.

[scrapster]

Sigh. It reminds me of a recent conversation where my stepmother tried to convince me that certain mountains "just weren't designed for snowboarding." I guess snowboarding developed in some alternate universe of snowboarding-specific mountains. Either that, or when mother nature lifted these peaks up out of the ground billions of years ago, she just didn't have snowboarding in mind. Anyway, I digress...

Sadly, these misinformed and prejudiced opinions are still alive and well. Perceptions that we're clearly a minority on the mountain (either economically or in sheer numbers) don't help. And the negative opinions will only grow if we don't speak up in cogent and respectful ways. So, good letter!

[Jack M]

If a mountain near me did this, I'd put on my shaped skis and go cut snowboard-style turns all over those trails all day long.

[b0ardski]

Just carry poles & pretend to be a monoskier:lol:

[Steve Prokopiw]

If a mountain near me did this, I'd put on my shaped skis and go cut snowboard-style turns all over those trails all day long.

Of course,they would then ban carving altogether.

[pokkis]

Been there done that, one of our local small resorts here used to ban snowboard carving time to time. It was stated that riding on race board was not allowed and it meant that you could not ride on hard boots snowboard combo

I voted with my wallet and went elsewhere for my turns.

[Loc]

Someone who frequents this resort should create a boycottgranitepeak.org website and get the word out. Vote en masse with your wallets and make 'em hurt even more in this down economy

[carvedog]

such crap

[Jack M]

Of course,they would then ban carving altogether.

Then they'd have to go after skiers. That wouldn't last.

[pow4ever]

skier: Snowboarder have the park to themself!!!

snowboarder: skier are allow in the half pipe and park!!!

Alots of time there are trail that's reserve for race training. I don't recall seeing any snowboard on those trails. To be fair it's not open to the public skier.

Skier also have the bump runs. I don't go into it on purpose :)

I am sure there are snowboarders have the skill to really enjoy the moguls. Just not for me.

What about faimly want to ski together?

Do I have a point? not really. Just think that most mountain is big enough for everybody. We are not going to miss 3 trails.

Guess it's human nature to want to do stuff we are forbid to do.

This could be a bad precedent for all of us.

[SEJ]

Hey, as long as they dedicate three good carving runs for hardboots only, I'm in. No crazy slope sliders or out of control skiers, I'd live on those runs.

[Algunderfoot]

I think the point of this was the language and reasoning the management used in both this decision and announcment.

Heck I would love a couple "No B-Liners" runs, but with this mindset of snowboarders / carvers being the problem is the problem.

I would like to get some shirts made "Skiers responsibility Code - Rule # 2"

Read it, Learn it, Practice it"

[DiveBomber]

what ever happened to the burton "poaching" thing?

[inkaholic]

We are going through the same type of thing here in CO at one of our openspace parks where Jeffco is restricting access to some sweet trails from Mtn Bikes. Hikers and equestrians don't have to make any compromises but mtb does. There is a lot of advocacy going on right now out here.

It sucks and is usually the result of a few whiners getting their way. Productive input and advocacy can help to change the rules before they are implemented.

Ink

[martyagt4]

Do I have a point? not really. Just think that most mountain is big enough for everybody. We are not going to miss 3 trails.

Guess it's human nature to want to do stuff we are forbid to do.

This could be a bad precedent for all of us.

The problem is, once you start banning a certain activity or group, you are setting a precedent for other resorts or hills to follow. Where do you stop?

[scrutton]

I was about to sign up for a 3 day gate-training camp at Sugar in NC; it's focussed on GS and SL racing. Just to be certain snowboarders were allowed to participate (some fears of mine based on some of the wording on the flier), I shot them an email/voicemail. Boy was I surprised at the response. Note here that Sugar does offer a Crescent Ski Council racing program for skiers, telemarkers and snowboarders during the season, which I participate in.

"

Kim Jochl to paul

show details Nov 3 (8 days ago)

Paul,

I received your voice mail. Thank you.

Snowboarders were part of the preseason ski clinic for several years in the past. However, due to a lack of interest over several years we returned to a ski clinic only. As a result, trying to include snowboarders became very costly therefore we eliminated snowboard participation.

I do not know of any other gate training programs for snowboarders. Sorry!

-Kim Jochl"

Well there you go...we can compete, but can't train. Superb. I'm really thinking that I should show up for the clinic with my split board, and put it together at the top of the race course prior to running the gates. Fn ridiculous.

[BlueB]

Management

Granite Peak Resort

Dear Sirs,

It came to my attention that you decided to impose a ban to snowboarders on

certain runs. This decission is shocking, uneducated and discriminatory towards

the loyal, paying customers.

I am a certified ski AND snowboard instructor with many years of teaching under

my belt and 35 years long snow sliding career. I could go on and on about

technical aspects and prove you wrong, but that would exceed the volume of a

short note this is supposed to be.

Long story short, when you dedicated certain runs to skiers only, did you make

at least one of the following compensations:

1) Discount the passes for snowboarders;

2) Dedicate equal number of runs to the snowboarders only. If this was the case,

then everybody should get a discounted pass, as all of the users would have

reduced number of runs available.

Over and above all the common sense logic that speaks against your decisions, youwould be subject for discriminatory charges, if somone was willing to file a

case, based on discrimination on visual appearance in contradiction with 14th

Amendment.

Unless your decision is reverted, or somehow compensated to all affected parties, I would carry on suggesting to all clients, friends, associates and acquintances, not visit your resort.

Best Regards,

Boris Miladinovic

Ski and Snowboard Instructor, Cypress Mountain, BC

[Dave ESPI]

Howmany snowboarders are really going to "care" this much about loosing a few trails?

really?

I mean if they were the three most popular and best runs, I'm sure everyone would be on the bandwagon to not have it seperated as NO ACCESS to snowboarders as the fact that families are mixxed as to snowboarder and skier ratios and they will bitch about it once on spot.

I say Skiers need some "away from boarders" space too. It is tru that parks do consist mostly of boarders, but where I go, there is a good mix of skiers and boarders hitting features, and never a rivalry issue unless someone snakes someone elses turn or botches an approach, or sits in a landing zone. That being said proper etikette should be present EVERYWHERE on the mountain. If anything, Us carvers using the whole hill are most in danger of accidents, and I would love to see sections of hills set aside for "carver days".

[martyagt4]

Who's to say it won't happen to YOUR resort/hill?

When does it stop? What happens when it IS the most popular run or runs?

I will never go to Wisconsin to ride or ski, but matters to me. All it does is reinforce the divide that exists between the two groups.

[energyrail]

Well being a skier and a snowboarder. I find this bizarre. But I do have issues with "backfoot" snowboard riders who can't turn to save their lives. Going straight out of control and then get mad at me, for actually turning and causing them to narrowly avoid me. This being far worse when i'm on hard boots. On skis I can see enough to avoid the problem. But really on skis I overtake straight line boarders as i'm turning.

What is the current ratio of boarders to skiers down in the states. At my hill it was 75% boarders, but I think it has slipped back some. So needless to say skier only runs in my neck of the woods isn't really an option.