SunSurfer Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 New Zealand was hit by H1N1 during our winter, the U.S. summer just past. We had no vaccine available at the time it came through. I work as an "anesthesiologist", so saw its impact on our major city tertiary hospital. Quarantine measures i.e. if you had flu like symptoms you stayed away from work/school/whatever until you were either cleared of having the H1N1 virus or got better, limited the spread of the virus to a level below that expected for a virus that had not been around before. Even healthy people who had it, noted the common symptom of a really nasty chest symptoms, phlegmy cough etc and were unwell for a week or more. Most people who ended up in ICU had significant other medical problems before they got H1N1. However, the virus seemed to hit particularly hard those who were significantly overweight, or pregnant. And there were a small but significant number of young, fit healthy people who got it and ended up in ICU. The virus and the quarantine measures hit our hospital staffing hard. Services were reduced due to lack of staff at the peak of the outbreak. ICUs around the country came close to being overwhelmed by the number of patients with H1N1 needing ventilator treatment. A significant number of patients needed extra-corporeal membrane oxygenation to get them through. Although most people who get it will get by without hospital admission, a percentage of the total infected population will need hospital and or ICU care to survive. Vaccination will reduce the total number of people in your country who get the virus. As a result the absolute number of people needing hospital care will be reduced and the overall impact on your health system and the number of deaths will be reduced. Vaccination programmes work best when a high percentage of the population are covered. No effective medical treatment is completely safe. Effective treatments help far more people than they harm. But if you treat enough people then there will be someone who is harmed. By the time next winter comes to NZ I'll be lining up for my H1N1 shot. SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategoat Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Bottom line is, we all do something that is way more dangerous than a flu vaccine. It's called snowboarding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 My wife waited in line for about 2.5 hours yesterday for her shot. Manitoba Health is asking only 'high-risk' people to come out initially, but they're not turning anyone away so everyone is trying to get in. Then they turn around and announce to the media that they may not have enough to get everyone in this first round, so the lines got even longer. This morning's reports say some clinics have 5 hour waits. I'm going to go after the initial rush dies down as it would drive me nuts to take that time off work to stand in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Just got mine as we are running it within our institution, yeah. No wait fortunately, the perks of working in health care...when you don't get it straight from the patients that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideGuy Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 That must be nice. 6 hour wait at the community center near my house. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I've been through hell at home this past month with 2 sick kids. Both my little ones 4 and 5 had the H1N1. Both were out of school a week each with temps of 103.5. My son just had a relapse last week for another 2 days. He is still coughing pretty hard. Your damn straight my kids are getting the the shot. My poor wife had to wait in line with them for close to 2 hours. They'll need to go back in a month for the second dose. Symptoms of the H1N1 are spreading all over our town. My understanding is that the symptoms of the flu are more severe and dangours in kids than adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak_rider Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I won't be getting the vaccine, since nature beat me to it. I got the H1N1 back in the end of August on a flight to seattle. i've been told that since i already had it i didn't need to be vaccinated. I boarded the plane in anchorage and felt fine, went to sleep, and 3 hrs later when we landed in seattle i had a sore throat and headache. our final destination was CT. byt he time i finally got there, i felt like i had been hit by a car. it wasn't a horrible illness, a few days of feeling really crappy, but by far the worst thing was the cough. it lasted for weeks after i felt better.all other symptoms lasted only about 5 days. i wouldn't be able to get vaccinated even if i wanted to. AK only got 2000 vaccines. we're waiting on more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisling Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 nature beat me to it. as an asthmatic i'm pretty lucky and am susceptible to any colds/flus etc it seems. however, because i do get them i think my body has built up a kick ass response system. like everyone said the worst was the damn cough. my peak flow was very low and i had to go back to daily dosing of inhaler instead of just when i need it on occasion. that was the part that pissed me off most. you get to a point where you almost don't need the bloody thing then back to point A. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 Your furry friends are at risk too keep visitors away wash your hands!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjl Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 I had it last year. It was brutal. I am a really healthy guy with a strong immune system and rarely get sick (although two years in a row I got sick at the SES :) ). But this one was brutal. I was really sick for >1 week, with the worst of it with a fever of >103 for 2 days at the end. I was so tired and fuzzy-headed and messed up I couldn't think straight - I basically depleted my store of food and drink in the house with 2-3 days left in the sickness to go and was so brain-fogged I couldn't really figure out how to get more food (like, I couldn't actually come up with the solution to get food delivery or call a friend or anything), so the last couple of days I was subsisting on powerbars and gatorade mix. I was also too foggy headed to understand that that was probably not very good for me. That being said, all anecdotal evidence is basically completely worthless. If some girl dies from H1N1 that should not make you want to get the vaccine, and if some girl gets a totally broken nervous system from the vaccine, that should not make you want to avoid the vaccine. It's really as simple as this: Your chances of getting and dying (or suffering from unacceptable effects) from H1N1 are X. Your chances of dying (or suffering from unacceptable side effects) if you take the vaccine are Y. If X is greater than Y, you should take the vaccine. To answer corey_dyck, yes, vaccinating yourself will make it so you won't get sick so you can't pass it on to your kid. This is sort of related, though not exactly, but interesting reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdyno Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 If you want the shot, just tell them you are a hockey player..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 No supply and I really don't feel it is a threat to me. I would have my son (10) get it but the doctor said no as he has an egg allergy. We know they have a non-egg built vaccine but there is very little chance it will get here before the season is way past peak. Washing hands and keeping them away from our faces. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I will not be getting this vaccine. It has not been tested to anything remotely resembling scientific standards. It contains dangerous adjuvants. The tests were done without the adjuvants. It is plain and simple a pharmaceutical protection racket. Follow the money and you will find truth. We see this every few years or so since 9/11. media hysteria builds up demand and the sheeple scream for the govt to do something. As soon as the govt buys 13 million doses the news stops covering it and no one dies. the statistics are highly skewed now as the CDC has stopped testing for H1N1 in late July. All Respiratory illnesses with flu-like symptoms are now reported as H1N1. The seasonal flu kills many more people each year than the swine flu has or will. Statistically your chance of getting ht by lightning is higher than your chances of dying from H1N1. The vaccine however is dangerous and is being used very irresponsibly. We don't vaccinate pregnant women for good reason yet this time its rampant and encouraged. already miscarriages are rampant in vaccinated women. Don't drink the koolaid:mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I will not be getting this vaccine. Where have you been? You have been missing some good "discussions".:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonbass Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I am a teacher and we lost a 8 year old girl from my school to h1n1. She participated in my choir and other projects along with regular classroom activities. She was one of my favorite students and she was one the fondest memories of my career as a music teacher. I am typically mistrustful/skeptical of anything that is backed by or benefitting the major pharmaceutical companies but I got the h1n1 vaccine. I didn't get it because I'm fearful of h1n1. I got it because the thought of passing on this virus to someone else and it ending their valuable life, regardless of whether there are other contributing factors, is pretty horrifying to me. Maybe I am being brainwashed by the media hype/fear but the loss of that little girl really tore me up. We have since lost an otherwise healthy mother of one of our students to this virus. Usually I see these things on the news but they have no effect on my local sphere of acquaintance. I recognize that people die of the flu every year but this flu seems different and it is the first time I have experienced it close to me. Maybe my judgement has been affected but I guess I asked myself whether I would want to be the one to pass this virus on to someone who has is in a high risk group. I would be surprised if the vaccine has any more impact on my health than the deep fried chinese buffet I had for lunch! Ouch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skatha Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I will not be getting this vaccine. It has not been tested to anything remotely resembling scientific standards. It contains dangerous adjuvants. The tests were done without the adjuvants. It is plain and simple a pharmaceutical protection racket. Follow the money and you will find truth. We see this every few years or so since 9/11. media hysteria builds up demand and the sheeple scream for the govt to do something. As soon as the govt buys 13 million doses the news stops covering it and no one dies. the statistics are highly skewed now as the CDC has stopped testing for H1N1 in late July. All Respiratory illnesses with flu-like symptoms are now reported as H1N1. The seasonal flu kills many more people each year than the swine flu has or will. Statistically your chance of getting ht by lightning is higher than your chances of dying from H1N1. The vaccine however is dangerous and is being used very irresponsibly. We don't vaccinate pregnant women for good reason yet this time its rampant and encouraged. already miscarriages are rampant in vaccinated women. Don't drink the koolaid:mad: Ahhh....where do I start... The H1N1 has gone through all 3 phases of clinical trials-including an extensive phase 3 trial at the Texas Medical Center in Houston. Given the problems associated with the vaccine that was developed in 1976, this was to be expected. The vaccine is NOT dangerous. It is being produced by the same two firms that produce the seasonal flu vaccine-Sanofi Aventis and Novartis Also, the CDC is continuing to test for H1N1. To say otherwise is irresponsible. It is true that the regular seasonal flu kills more people than the H1N1. You know, given that I think that you are a chiropractor, you should stop portraying yourself as a physician. Your "medical" opinions are just that, and they hardly reflect any of the actual medical research being conducted here and around the world. As for my credentials, I'm a board certified internist and, if anyone wants confirmation, get on the ABIM.org website and enter candidate number 188033. The result will be me... PS. If you haven't noted that very little H1N1 vaccine available in the States, it's a result of our corporatist culture. Most of the executives on Wall Street got theirs already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Johbass thank you for conisdering others, an unusual quality in a person in this day and age. Herd immunity could be a critical factor if a second phase does develop. Getting you shot will have a multiplying affect on protecting others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 skatha I am a Chiropractor. I am a Licensed Gateway Physician in the state of montana. I have as many or more post graduate hours as you do. that said, I also read research for around 2 hours a day so I am quite up to date. My opinions are Professional opinions based on my personal study and philosophy quite the same as your opinions. Feel free to discuss this topic with footnotes etc. Petty attacks on my credentials make you look silly stick to the facts. start by backing up your assertion that this was properly tested. The time elapsed since "discovery" is your first hurdle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/03/What-We-Have-Learned-About-the-Great-Swine-Flu-Pandemic.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 <embed src='http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/player-dest.swf' FlashVars='linkUrl=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5405872n&releaseURL=http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/player-dest.swf&videoId=50078503&partner=news&vert=News&si=254&autoPlayVid=false&name=cbsPlayer&allowScriptAccess=always&wmode=transparent&embedded=y&scale=noscale&rv=n&salign=tl' allowFullScreen='true' width='425' height='324' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed><br/><a href='http://www.cbsnews.com'>Watch CBS News Videos Online</a> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 fun stuff skatha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zone Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 You guys crack me up. Arguing whether the flu shot or the flu is dangerous, meanwhile, you are trying to get your friends and family tied up to a carving board to slide down a hill. I chose to agree to disagree on this topic. Do what you think is best for you and what is best for those around you. And most importantly do no harm. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71BbsjsyfsU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71BbsjsyfsU&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 <embed src='http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/player-dest.swf' FlashVars='linkUrl=http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5394553n&releaseURL=http://cnettv.cnet.com/av/video/cbsnews/atlantis2/player-dest.swf&videoId=50078371&partner=news&vert=News&si=254&autoPlayVid=false&name=cbsPlayer&allowScriptAccess=always&wmode=transparent&embedded=y&scale=noscale&rv=n&salign=tl' allowFullScreen='true' width='425' height='324' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer'></embed><br/><a href='http://www.cbsnews.com'>Watch CBS News Videos Online</a> Questions that Were Are Not Being Asked The interviewer on the 60 Minutes segment did ask some hard questions, but he, like most of the mainstream media did not ask important questions that are absolutely essential to understand precisely what is going on with this "pandemic" There have been 81 children who have died from H1N1 in the US. These of course are tragic. How many pediatric deaths occurred in children who: Were positively lab confirmed as H1N1; Had underlying chronic immune and brain dysfunction Were fully vaccinated according to CDC recommendations Had received influenza vaccine this year Had received seasonal influenza vaccine in previous years Received Tamiflu or another anti-viral prior to death Had a coinciding bacterial infection with H1N1 Were never vaccinated - totally unvaccinated It is quite clear from the video that Luke did not get worse until after he visited the physician and was given an antipyretic and possibly Tamiflu. Certainly it could have been coincidence but it is an interesting observation. No mention was made if Luke had been vaccinated for seasonal or H1N1? Additionally there was no reference made to the last swine flu epidemic in the US when 50 million people got the swine flu vaccine and more people died from the vaccine than the swine flu itself -- and that's not counting all those that developed permanent neurological damage. Why is no one reminding the public of this well documented and vitally important part of vaccine history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr D Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 You guys crack me up. Arguing whether the flu shot or the flu is dangerous, meanwhile, you are trying to get your friends and family tied up to a carving board to slide down a hill.I chose to agree to disagree on this topic. Do what you think is best for you and what is best for those around you. And most importantly do no harm. Cheers. good point:biggthump The beauty of the internet is that you get to hear both sides and decidefor yourself. assuming of course you haven't lost the ability to form independent thoughts. Nearly everything is more dangerous than the swine flu. The vaccine is quite likely more dangerous than the swine flu. First do no harm should be at the forefront of this debate and its not. That alone is the major reason I speak out as vehemently as I do on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.