Jon Dahl Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Every one of you owe it to yourselves, and your posterity, to go to www.losthorizons.com. Look at all the information there, order his book, "Cracking the Code" and actually act on it. I have. As of now, I am waiting on the IRS to respond to my properly filed and executed form 1040, complete with IRS information return rebuttal form 4852, asking for all taxes paid in for 2008 to be returned, including S.S. and Medicare, because they, too, are just taxes. To make our government act responsibly, both towards the citizenry and the world, it needs to be trimmed to size, in all it's actions. Don't just complain, ACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxguitarist Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 4852 is just an estimated replacement for the W-2:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Quick google shows Hendrickson to be just another tax protestor nutbar. This seems to be a fair summary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 As I have actually had the form in my hands, and used it, my statement remains. 4852 IS used to correct incorrect w-2 forms, or for those who did not get one. As for misinformation goes, read his book, THEN read all the Supreme Court/District court rulings, the applicable US code 26 references, then judge. 'Till then, uninformed is misinformed. And, as an oh, yeah, 35 pages of refunds, Federal and State, including all communications with the IRS during the process, totaling almost 10 million dollars, is hardly a nut protester or just "slipping through the cracks". This is the real deal, and how it is supposed to work. I'll keep you informed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 " Post April 15, what are you doing about the "Income tax"? " not sure if this counts, but i gave a big ole middle finger as i drove by one of their big buildings on the way to work today....rage against the machine, maaannn! hahah i ponder the stigma attached to working for such a loathed agency, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I've heard it all before, there were a bunch of right wing nutbags doing this out in holden MA. worked for awhile and then one was slapped with a not only a fine but criminal offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I've heard it all before, there were a bunch of right wing nutbags doing this out in holden MA. worked for awhile and then one was slapped with a not only a fine but criminal offenses. I wouldn't lump the Schiff's, et al, with this. They all miss the simple truths involved, make unusable Constitutional arguments that have no basis in court rulings and law, and so on. Still hold this as doing it right. Again, will keep you informed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxguitarist Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 As I have actually had the form in my hands, and used it, my statement remains. 4852 IS used to correct incorrect w-2 forms, or for those who did not get one. Right.. I agree to this. That is essentially what I said. If I wanted to use paper, I would have had it in my hands too- Instead I had the PDF on my screen. I think I must have missed the checkbox for "please return all of my money to me, k thx bye" :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 I wouldn't lump the Schiff's, et al, with this. They all miss the simple truths involved, make unusable Constitutional arguments that have no basis in court rulings and law, and so on. Still hold this as doing it right. Again, will keep you informed... don't buy it, at the very least it could trigger a audit. most audits are done by a program that has a formula looking for certain flags. cross referencing by a real live person between your employers records and your "corrected" ones might happen if you're flagged. at that point, if you get caught, you're probably not going to go to jail or anything. my understanding is the IRS decides how much you made based on any info they may have and file it for you and mail you a bill and a letter explaining that you're mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 speaking of taxation blues <div><iframe height="339" width="425" src="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/30145811#30145811" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe><p style="font-size:11px; font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #999; margin-top: 5px; background: transparent; text-align: center; width: 425px;">Visit msnbc.com for <a style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com">Breaking News</a>, <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032507" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">World News</a>, and <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072" style="text-decoration:none !important; border-bottom: 1px dotted #999 !important; font-weight:normal !important; height: 13px; color:#5799DB !important;">News about the Economy</a></p></div> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Paying It! With honesty, gratitude, and some sense of pride. It's the price of civilization and humanity. Period!! BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sultan Guy Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 The three certain things in life... death, taxes, and snowboarding, well at least until global warming takes care of the last one. We all gotta pay. I just do my best to minimize the situation. Now just have to figure out a way to deduct those new TD3 bindings I bought...:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawndoggy Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Paying It! With honesty, gratitude, and some sense of pride. It's the price of civilization and humanity. Period!! BB Thanks BB. Amazes me sometimes the length that people who consider themselves patriots will go to not pay their share. You like this country, its highways and bridges, its military, its schools, its parks? That stuff ain't free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 Now just have to figure out a way to deduct those new TD3 bindings I bought...:rolleyes: If what I've heard is correct, working as a volunteer ski patroller will let you deduct gear. Sinecure or other folks with experience, care to chime in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 16, 2009 Report Share Posted April 16, 2009 If what I've heard is correct, working as a volunteer ski patroller will let you deduct gear. Sinecure or other folks with experience, care to chime in? this is true also, with small deductions, even BS ones you can usually get through without the IRS being too bastardly about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 If I screw up my tax return, can I get nominated to a cabinet position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 If I screw up my tax return, can I get nominated to a cabinet position? yes, seems to be a the way it goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Paying It! With honesty, gratitude, and some sense of pride. It's the price of civilization and humanity. Period!! BB If, by way of inference, you are saying that I am dishonest, you are asking for trouble. And I usually never call anyone out...and may make exception. In 1936, only 3.9 percent of the population paid the income tax. (This is an official Treasury Dept. stat.) Why? Probably that number is related to the number of Federal employees, plus those who benefited from profitable interaction with the Federal government. The real question to be asked is; What has happened between then and now? Go figure it out, the answers are there. And you've been given a head start, I had to dig for a while to get there (Over 2 years of personal research). About honesty...the signature line on form 1040, form 4852, etc. etc. all have perjury statements, and are binding legal documents. If you believe that I, as a christian, would knowingly perjure myself over money, then you really had better spend some time getting to know me, or shut up. And if you think that I would knowingly perjure myself to allow the government to have it's way with me, financially, so it would leave me alone and keep a fair sized sum of money in the process, YOU know little about the high price of honesty. Thomas Paine said, "Taxes are not raised to carry on wars, wars are raised to carry on taxes." Since WW2, America has had it's fingers, so to speak, in so many countries, doing things our founding fathers would not have dreamed of. Patriotism is more than unfounded fervor, blind following, and unspeaking agreement. It demands words and actions. This is one way of saying no to, well, plain old selfish, greedy, unprincipled government. Another thought about the income tax. There is a Constitutional way to have an income tax. It has been done in the past, in times of true need, and is completely legal, and I would pay it. I sincerely doubt that it would be implimented, because then the ugly way the IRS does business would be known, and many would scream. Why upset the apple cart when there are so many blind willing marks to be had?? And yes, that means YOU. I do pay many taxes, and do so willingly, because they are part of civilizations price. Property taxes, sale taxes, exices/tariffs, all legal, Constitutional and a part of normal life. Never will I be deficient in those duties. U.S. Supreme Court, So. Pacific v. Lowe, 247 U.S. 330 (1918) "We must reject...the broad contention submitted on behalf of the government that all reciepts--everything that comes in--are income." U.S. Court of Claims, Economy Plumbing and Heating v. United States, 470 F.2d 585, at 589 (1972) "The revenue laws are a code or system in regulation of tax assessment and collection. They relate to taxpayers, and not to nontaxpayers. The latter are without their scope. No procedure is prescribed for nontaxpayers, and no attempt is made to annul any of their rights and remedies in due course of law. With them Congress does not assume to deal, and they are neither of the subject nor the object of the revenue laws." And once you understand a few legal terms, and dig some more, it gets even better than this. Now, go do your home work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davekempmeister Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 If one uses a preparer and is subsequently audited, is there any benefit to having used a preparer? i.e., an extra degree removed, so to speak. I guess if you've signed it, you've signed it. BTW, 04/15 is also my anniversary - helps me remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 If one uses a preparer and is subsequently audited, is there any benefit to having used a preparer? i.e., an extra degree removed, so to speak. I guess if you've signed it, you've signed it. BTW, 04/15 is also my anniversary - helps me remember. All the preparer can do is explain what is on the form. Ultimate responsibility is the signer's, it is, after all, about your situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 don't buy it, at the very least it could trigger a audit.most audits are done by a program that has a formula looking for certain flags. cross referencing by a real live person between your employers records and your "corrected" ones might happen if you're flagged. I am fairly certain my return went from the San Francisco office to the main campus in Utah. Per the phone call made by me, when the online status of my refund changed, I was told that it went "to the department that fixes errors". Tried to get the nice gentleman on the phone to tell me exactly what department that was, but somehow he couldn't. I may have to tell whomever I end up talking to there about IRS Office of Chief Counsel Memorandum 200114033. It states that a return filled out in the manner that I did mine "would be sufficient to calculate tax liability, and, therefore, constitute a valid return." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex1230 Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 F*ing AMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's all I have to say on the matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Snip rantSo if everyone followed your lead and dodged their income tax, who exactly would pay for all the benefits that you enjoy because of tax? Or would you prefer to give up your roads, police, army, public education system, public watchdogs (FDA etc) and so forth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted April 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 So if everyone followed your lead and dodged their income tax, who exactly would pay for all the benefits that you enjoy because of tax? Or would you prefer to give up your roads, police, army, public education system, public watchdogs (FDA etc) and so forth? First, the FDA is not public watchdog, it serves the interest of the big pharmacy companies. Big rabbit trail, go look if you like. Second, almost all "public" funds come from the states, then go back to the states. 2/3's of all revenues generated at the Federal level comes from imposts, duties, and exises. About 67 percent of the revenue raised in the "income tax" sceme is spent on enforcement, hardly a worthy gaol to begin with. More than enough to keep a small standing army, etc. etc. and so on and so forth. Police funding comes at a state and local level. Public education is a state affair, and should be funded and regulated in that fashion. Third, I am NOT 'dodging' anything. Do not paint me as something until you have gone to the trouble of doing some real life research. Fourth, as pointed out before, before WW2 only those who profited directly from interaction with the Federal government were paying the "income" tax. Really, people, go look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boarderboy Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Thanks BB. Amazes me sometimes the length that people who consider themselves patriots will go to not pay their share. John, to be honest, I frankly don't give a flying rats rear end whether you paid all your taxes without a whimper, or took every deduction, legal and otherwise, you could, or have devoted your life to meticulously researching the questionable and/or (il)legal premises upon which the income tax is based and applied. How tedious and boring!! BUT as the inestimable ShawnDoggy points out above, the near-universal obsession with "making dam sure I pay no more than my fair share to the guv'ment and less if I can," really ticks me off. (It amazed me no end how quickly many of my matriculated grad school cohorts became pious, anti-tax zealots once they'd received the generous grants, loans, and research support from the very entity they now disparaged.) And very few of these bozo's (then and now) had served in the military (much less in "hostile fire") as I have. And most of 'em go to Church right regular, too. So to cut right to the chase here, I was NOT implying that you are, or had ever been, dishonest in your tax dealings. And as for calling people out here, I've never done it, though I've been sorely tempted. I've stated some fairly strong opinions - esp about our vaunted free-market health care system - which dam-near bankrupted me after taking me to death's door. I make no apologies for that. But, in the interest of avoiding future misunderstanding and conflict, let me state my credo, once and once only, as precisely as possible. I AM A C____SUCKING, M_____ F____ing, UNREFORMED, ATHEISTIC, AND UNREPENTANT SOCIALIST with no capacity for, nor interest in, debating or changing my admittedly radical views. Like most people, I'm really not much interested in opposing philosophies and viewpoints. I've developed my perspective during 60+ years of wide-ranging experience, observation and travel. That worldview is mine, I like it, and it's likely to change very little. I'm faithful to my wife, devoted to my (adopted Russian) son, and a keen follower of the "Do No Harm" ethic in my dealings with the earth and its multitudinous, glorious peoples. In summation, I shall continue to pay my taxes, with a minimum of resistance, though, admittedly,with a bit of difficulty and angst at times. I won't bear arms again without great provocation and am determined that my son may follow in that path. As for the great "cultural divide" that seems, still, to rend this country, I'd just as soon the "Red" states seceded and let the rest of us get on with creating a just, sustainable and truly humane society. There's great work to be done, and "you guys" are gonna make it as difficult as possible for as long as you can. (If I've miscast your leanings and beliefs with that last, please accept, in advance, my apologies.) Were the Great Secession to occur, I'd probably have to move "up north." Daunting as that thought is, I've never quite understood how I was born and raised in 'Carolina anyhow. If, as I doubt, there is a God up there, she has a terrific sense of humor and she used it with great, demonic mischief as she went about her amazing job of Creating. This ends my commentary on things social and political on BOL, and if I've gone too far for the censors, maybe my very presence on this forum. It's been fun peace to ye all BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.