Przemek/Brooklyn Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I LOVE STEEPS, if there would be no steeps i would rather go to park ;) There is this absolutely incredible feeling when you initiate toe side turn and you trow your body downhill and your board is on downhill edge behind you. Then somehow it comes around, like a magic. I understand there are people comfortable on blues but if you never try this you are missing half of the fun. In my book Greens and blues are for carving switch, 360s and goof around. Also it is very hard to EC if there is not enough pitch. Przemek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I'm surprised nobody commented on my earlier post contrasting the desire for adrenaline with the racing mindset. To reiterate (really briefly)...several people have commented (in essence) about what an adrenaline rush riding blacks is. Other comments were that blacks require you to ride more on instinct...and blacks demand proper technique to ride well. What I find interesting is that only one of these comments applies to racing. Adrenaline: Racers at the highest levels aren't about adrenaline—they're all about reproducing a run over and over at the highest speeds possible, penalty-free. There's no room for adrenaline in that equation, because adrenaline only occurs when you're not sure of the outcome. The best racers are 100% sure of the outcome (or they don't win). Riding on Instinct: Again, racers don't do this. If there's any part of a race run that relies on instinct, that racer isn't going to win (in the sense that to win requires knowing exactly what is happening every second and being able to reproduce it at will). Proper technique: this is the one thing in common with racing, since racing is all about technique. I'm stretching the thread topic a bit here...but I often wonder how many people who are "adrenaline carvers" would enjoy the grueling repetition necessary to be a good racer? (That's not to prove a point, just wondering.) I guess (in a roundabout way) I'm trying to reinforce the concept that there are two fundamental approaches to carving (or any other sport): cerebral, and emotional. While it's possible to have both (and most do) I think most people naturally tilt more to one side than the other. It's either the process that you really love...or it's the rush! If you're a "process person," you don't feel as strong a need to ride blacks, because the process can be made infinitely complex regardless of the terrain. If you're a "rush person," then clearly you need the external motivation forced upon you by extreme terrain—because pushing yourself to the edge is the only way you're gonna feel that rush. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadBrad Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Another bluester here, but only because that's the limit of my skill level. I would love to be able to ride the whole mountain well, especially when I'm out with my friends who are good skiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Adrenaline: Racers at the highest levels aren't about adrenaline—they're all about reproducing a run over and over at the highest speeds possible, penalty-free. There's no room for adrenaline in that equation, because adrenaline only occurs when you're not sure of the outcome.Downhill skiers get one shot at it. When you're hurtling down Kitzhbuhel at 120 kph, I'm pretty sure there's adrenaline involved. Race car driver's heart rates are alarmingly high for the entire duration of the race. I'm thinking there's some adrenaline there, too.Having said that, I've had my adrenaline rushes on blues, simply due to going fast. I'm often going much slower on blacks due to the bumps or the tightness of the run or whatever. Nicely groomed blacks where you can open it up are the exception where I've been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Interesting point about racing. From my car racing experience (autocross, ice racing, solo time trials), if you're ever 100% confident and comfortable with your current situation you probably aren't driving fast enough to win. I'm having an 'off' day if I'm not completely filled with adrenaline after a lap. When I started driving a 500 hp beast I could barely form sentences after a run. After a while I grew more comfortable with it and was able to focus more on the technical aspects and less on simply keeping the car pointed in the correct general direction. I get the same feeling after nailing a steep (for me) run on the alpine board. It's a mix of accomplishing what I wanted to technically, scaring the heck out of myself, and elation at coming out standing. I still have lots of fun on blue runs and ride them more often then blacks, but it sure is nice to step up to the challenge when I'm feeling 'on'. Blues build my ego up, blacks tear it back down. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 More good points! When I suggested adrenaline isn't a part of racing, I was referring more to slalom sports, which (I believe) place a higher premium on technique than flat-out speed sports. (Which also require technique.) I'm friends with a 5-time world champion in whitewater slalom (Jon Lugbill) and 2-time whitewater slalom Olympic silver medalist Dana Chladek. Having trained with both of them (and watched them race) I can tell you there is very little adrenaline in what they did. When they raced, it was the culmination of thousands of hours of intense training...and the end result was cold, calculating, emotionless perfection. In whitewater slalom, winning has nothing to do with that last second burst of controlled, adrenaline-fueled fury. Winning is about having perfect lines, placing every stroke perfectly, feathering the blade perfectly through gates, and timing leans perfectly...which only come from mind-numbing repetition and careful analysis. In my experience, adrenaline is the enemy of technical perfection, because it's inherently emotional and not cerebral. But sorry...I'm digressing way too much, LOL. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Well, there's racing and there's racing. Your life ain't on the line in slalom, be it whitewater or skiing. It is on the line in motorsports and downhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 you ever watch DH skateboarding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me jack Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 you ride what you ride; i never really pay attention to what the hill is rated as. i have no idea what any of my favoret hills are even classified as, which says alot considering i work at the ski resort. some hills are more fun that others. simple as that. Now that i think about it, there is a combination of hill i like to hit in on run; it starts off as a blue, then a black, then a blue again (that usally has alot of cross traffic) ride what you wanna ride. If the lift operator don't know that names and identitys of the runs **cough** then why do you need to? Edit: i don't like it, however, when your going so fast your jacket starts to make that "tgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgt" sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me jack Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Interesting point about racing. From my car racing experience (autocross, ice racing, solo time trials) miata autocross for life baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastskiguy Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 ...but I often wonder how many people who are "adrenaline carvers" would enjoy the grueling repetition necessary to be a good racer? (That's not to prove a point, just wondering.) LOL! Carving the same run 30 times in a row alone would just suck ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbat Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 In my experience, adrenaline is the enemy of technical perfection, because it's inherently emotional and not cerebral. I think you got it backwards. Emotion may bring on a release of adrenaline, but my understanding of it's effects is that it squelches emotion, blocks perception of pain, increases focus, strength, and agility. I fully agree with you however in the sense that the person who has run a course or slope so many times that there are no surprises left to cause the adrenaline to flow is most likely going to out perform someone running a course or slope blind and going into survival mode at every other turn.;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 If you ride on flatter terrain mostly, you won't have much experience with the board pointed out of the fall line. When you get to hold the board in the fall line all the time, you don't develop the whole latter part of a really round turn. This is seen in the rider who can hold a carve pretty well, but looks awkward when changing edges. Because you're generally pointed so far away from the fall line in a round, steep terrain turn, if you do it alot, you get really good at transitioning, and will consequently be able to look ****ing sick when you do it on flat runs. Smooth, lined-up edge carving edge changes are the sign of a really good rider, not good carves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 smooth transitions on steep runs are required for "ribbon candy" tracks:1luvu: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think you got it backwards. Emotion may bring on a release of adrenaline, but my understanding of it's effects is that it squelches emotion, blocks perception of pain, increases focus, strength, and agility. I fully agree with you however in the sense that the person who has run a course or slope so many times that there are no surprises left to cause the adrenaline to flow is most likely going to out perform someone running a course or slope blind and going into survival mode at every other turn.;) Yeah, you're right dingbat. I guess I was distinguishing between sudden adrenaline that makes you go "Holy sh*t!" and "controlled" adrenaline (that mixes with endorphines) and just gives you that high-powered, precision burn. :) If you ride on flatter terrain mostly, you won't have much experience with the board pointed out of the fall line.When you get to hold the board in the fall line all the time, you don't develop the whole latter part of a really round turn. This is seen in the rider who can hold a carve pretty well, but looks awkward when changing edges. Because you're generally pointed so far away from the fall line in a round, steep terrain turn, if you do it alot, you get really good at transitioning, and will consequently be able to look ****ing sick when you do it on flat runs. Smooth, lined-up edge carving edge changes are the sign of a really good rider, not good carves. I think this is true on REALLY flat terrain (like green slopes)...but on my favorite slope (which interestingly is actually a green-that-should-be-a-blue), I literally spend far more time riding across the slope (perpendicular to the fall line) than I do going downhill...because the slope is w-i-d-e. In fact, I love coming out of a fast (not tight) turn and roaring straight across a wide slope...all the way to the trees...and timing my next turn so the apex is 2 feet from the tree trunks...then roaring back across the slope again. :) (Of course it's hell when there are other people around...sometimes I'm going so fast across the slope they scratch their heads for a second and think "Am I going the right way?" LOL) I think I'd really like a WIDE black slope, if such a thing exists. Every single black slope I've seen in the east is narrow (which seems to be the east coast definition of "black"---"very narrow."). In fact, I'll even say that for me, if a slope isn't at least 50 yeards wide, it ain't a slope...it's a TRAIL! :D Scott PS - I was just thinking more about it, and realized that it's actually easier to end every turn going uphill on a less-steep slope...and I often do that (on flatter blues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWriverstone Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 LOL! Carving the same run 30 times in a row alone would just suck ;) Now that's my kind of slope! Tell me it's NOT a black slope! I could carve a slope like that all day too. :p Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 This DOES say it All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yyzcanuck Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 In fact, I love coming out of a fast (not tight) turn and roaring straight across a wide slope...all the way to the trees...and timing my next turn so the apex is 2 feet from the tree trunks...then roaring back across the slope again. Someday we're going to be reading about your mis-cue. I hope you survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Adrenaline doesn't have to come from fear. Autocross involves you driving between traffic cones, a mistake typically only causes a scuff on your paint. Yet you get really pumped after a fantastic run and are usually breathing hard. miata autocross for life baby! Not quite - sold my Miata for an S2000. ;) Do I know you from autocross? PM or email me, you have both disabled in your profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Started a new thread for car racing discussion: http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=228113#post228113 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Someday we're going to be reading about your mis-cue. I hope you survive. Definitely. Move onto blacks if you're doing that kind of stuff, no way a black is more scary than being 2 feet from trees. The apex is where you're most likely to wash out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Someday we're going to be reading about your mis-cue. I hope you survive. Yeah - you don't want to fly off the trail. I've done it before and believe me, it is not something you ever want to do. Last year I flew off a trail at Okemo, and actually managed to tumble over the safety netting on the side of the trail, which thankfully prevented me from hitting any trees at full speed. Aa fellow carver was there and helped me collect myself back together and get down the rest of my run, with my tail thoroughly between my legs. I did this not even trying to be anywhere near the edge of the trail - I'd say you are tempting a very cruel fate by doing this. Sometimes trails are narrow enough that you can't avoid getting that close to the edge - but I'd say you're much better off learning how to make lightning-quick transitions, rather than standing up between your turns so you can get close to the edge. Learning to make fast transitions will also take you to a whole new level of carving, where you stop thinking about making individual turns and are just carving dynamically constantly the whole way down the mountain. That's what I'm trying to work on now, and I don't always get it but when I do, it's a huge rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpalka Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Definitely... no way a black is more scary than being 2 feet from trees.. Why chose? Do both! Steep, black, and 1 foot from trees on either side :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I have a distinct advantage this year in that I essentially have to learn to carve all over again with a new ankle, so the blues that used to be ho hum are very challenging again. I am really just happy to be on the slopes again but after talking to xxguitarist on our way home from NH I got to thinking about what I used to have no qualms about riding compared to what I was struggling down on Wednesday....I am no longer in the body knows what to do skill area, I am really thinking my way down the hill because while I know my ankle is healed I really have no idea what it is capable of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Mt. High's halfpipe is like that. Trees right next to the lip on both sides. Kinda fun to carve halfpipes without getting air (too scared). First day on hardboots I had some issues. Get the edge angle, carve around, stand up...still carving still carving still carving OH CRAP ARBORIAL ENEMIES...I remember reading an article that ski resorts started grooming closer and closer to the trees and tree deaths and injuries started going up; the moguls and such next to the runs work both as a psychological and physical safety net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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