Burton FP's and Ultraprimes

[Allee]

I stand corrected. And here was me saying that the only reason I hadn't tried a Burton board was because my bindings wouldn't fit.

Oh well. That's my excuse and I'm going to stick to it. :D It would still be a pain having to find separate plates and swap them out. I'd much rather just have all 4 hole and be done with it.

Tex - what about F2's? They're 4 hole only?

[tex1230]

Never owned a modern F2 binding...I don't know...

[b0ardski]

3d = more stance options with fewer inserts, ie cheap

that said, buck furton, 4x4 is the standard

[RDY_2_Carve]

F2's come in 4 hole only.

I'm pretty sure you can get 3 holes for the X-Bones.

TD1 second gen disks were 3 and 4 hole compatible from what I remember.

TD2 you can buy 3 hole disks.

Semi-older Catek disks had both 3 and 4 hole mounts on the same disk-which was one of the bigger perks of going Catek IMHO. I was quite dissapointed when the OS2/FR2 abandoned this, but hey at least they got rid of that silly dimpling problem.

[Furi]

3d = more stance options with fewer inserts, ie cheap

that said, buck furton, 4x4 is the standard

heh if burton has their way the new EST slider will be the standard replacement for 4x4

[SEJ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Burton was the first to standardize insert placement when they started the 3D pattern. Most bindings were still getting screwed to the deck then. My first Burton was the first board I had with inserts.Probably patented it. That's why everybody else went to 4 hole.

[Petrol]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Burton was the first to standardize insert placement when they started the 3D pattern. Most bindings were still getting screwed to the deck then. My first Burton was the first board I had with inserts.Probably patented it. That's why everybody else went to 4 hole.

That is the way my old feable mind remembers it happening...

[paragonUE]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Burton was the first to standardize insert placement when they started the 3D pattern. Most bindings were still getting screwed to the deck then. My first Burton was the first board I had with inserts.Probably patented it. That's why everybody else went to 4 hole.

not only that, but burton also accomodates 4 hole patterns with some of their bindings, they didnt have to do that

[bobdea]

heh if burton has their way the new EST slider will be the standard replacement for 4x4

if it rides well and is durable I support it being a industry wide standard.

my first impression of it from the standpoint of liking simple and effective ways of getting TONS of stance options is that it's killer but I have not tried any of the boards out.

paragon, if they wanted to sell bindings to the rest of the market they did have to!

[BlueB]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Burton was the first to standardize insert placement when they started the 3D pattern. Most bindings were still getting screwed to the deck then. My first Burton was the first board I had with inserts.Probably patented it. That's why everybody else went to 4 hole.

Wrong. They came up with it at the same time when Rad-Air and F2 (or was it Volkl?) launched 4x4. These 2 companies decided not to patent their invention so the others can use it, in the name of the real standardisation. Burton stuck to 3D mostly to force buyers into their bindings too.

[John Gilmour]

But behind the wheel of something better- well he would blow minds.

I had ridden dozens of Burton Primes and Ultra Primes that I woud swap when letting people ride my board.

Each new season I would hope that the new model would be improved, that I wouldn't be handed such an uneven trade- and every year I was disappointed.

IMHO FWIW, I think that you would be better ebaying your softboot board, and taking that money + $150 buying a better soft boot board...perhaps a boarder cross board with a softer lightweight hard boot... like the Nordica Super Charger.

There are many old cheap softboot boards that many can carve better than an Ultra Prime or Stock Prime. Old Hammers (Made by Hot in grand Chavin factory in france) Never Summers even 10 year old ones, a variety of Salomon boards. why buy a low level carving board if you can carve better in a soft boot board?

I owned a 1986- 1987 Craig Kelly Sims X-2000 it was a total dog.. the older Sims 1710 blades were far better. Some kid out carved me on a Sims Terry Kidwell in softboots. I felt like an ass- but really the Kidwell carved better.

Burton Prime "race stock" custom boards (the thicker ones),,, not bad... but then again.. do racers sell their favorite boards that work great rip and hold a fantastic edge .... or do they sell the the duds with too much/too little- camber/sidecut-, soft noses, or about to delam? In slalom skateboarding...most people sell their duds....cheap..to a beginner. Snowboarding is much the same. That is the way it can be in the custom game when someone specs and oddball board. But if you get a board that was custom made for someone else that they really like and they are the same size as you and skill level...well that would be very nice.

Better choices... for you as a lady beginner that still can ride well- old boards that can be found cheap.

(stay away from mounting plate boards like Old Checker Pigs (I loved 'em) and Aggression Stealths (great boards but only worked with tight stances as mounting plates were tiny) Old Rossignol 173 with Vas or no vas plates.

Stick to standard 4x4 mounting boards like...

Hot: Used Hot Spot, Hot Logical, Hot Blast. Any year

Wild Duck: Ducifier any year (super easy to switch from softies to carving)

1992 F2 Speedster 159, any Speedster after 1995. and Asym f2's from 1991-1992

1993-1994 Dynastar hudu guru (very underrated) an ideal learning board to carve. Perhaps the ugliest graphics ever on a snowboard. Pink and grey.

Sims Burner 167

Used niedeckers (non cap construction)

Volkl Renntiger (you can get cheap new in packaging ones that people have from replacement warrantees).....sometimes

Mistral

Some Oxygens.. not all.

Vasa (womens models)

These are all more user friendly and for the vast majority of beginner to intermediate carvers more controllable and able to give fairly high performance WITHOUT FOLDING the NOSE.

Honorable mention: Rossignol throttle (tail riding board) for soft snow.

[photodad2001]

Those of you putting these other boards in a different universe may be setting yourselves up. If the only way you can perform is with a certain board, maybe it's better not to use it because it's becoming a crutch and your skills are becoming dull. Someone said something about the carver video of the guy on the Burton, "I see someone who could ride even better on a better board", or something like that. It could as easily be said, "I see someone performing as well on a $100 board as those who can only do that on $1000 boards." Windsurfing has a side that really turns people off and a particular type of windsurfer that turns people away from the sport and those are the ones who hold onto the false belief that large amounts of money must be spent to participate and suceed. I see that here. I'm more impressed with the guy on the Burton who does exactly the same thing as the guy on the Kessler or Virus or any other board that costs more than a grand.

"Don't spend more than $100 for a Burton"? That's cool, here's my quote, "Don't spend more than $600 for any board brand new and not more than $250 used"... Unless of course you are competing in the upcoming Olympics or are a member of the Hilton family, then fine.

[Furi]

if it rides well and is durable I support it being a industry wide standard.

my first impression of it from the standpoint of liking simple and effective ways of getting TONS of stance options is that it's killer but I have not tried any of the boards out.

paragon, if they wanted to sell bindings to the rest of the market they did have to!

Bob - true, but from looking at it in the store you are limited to a max of 30 degrees of binding angle. I know for most people that doesn't matter, so probably not much of an issue. Its got the nifty feature of tool-less adjustments for stance/angles and the guy in the store said you can even adjust your bindings while still strapped in. I haven't ridden it personally so can't comment on the durability or ease of use. Time will tell how well its received by the public. The really bad thing is that you are getting forced into the burton bindings no matter what (not sure if burton licensed E.S.T to other companies or not), but at least you get 2 year warranty with board + binding now which is reassuring for a new system.

[bobdea]

30 degrees is about the limit inherent in the design of most stuff if not all stuff they make. fits function perfectly

[JJFluff]

Each new season I would hope that the new model would be improved, that I wouldn't be handed such an uneven trade- and every year I was disappointed.

IMHO FWIW, I think that you would be better ebaying your softboot board, and taking that money + $150 buying a better soft boot board...perhaps a boarder cross board with a softer lightweight hard boot... like the Nordica Super Charger.

Let's not lead this person down the wrong path. Just because you can't ride the board well, doesn't mean nobody can. For instance myself and many others. I can put any board on my feet and ride it well. Practice makes perfect.

[*Ace*]

Speaking of Ultraprimes...

Anyone want to buy mine?

'98 162 Ultraprime. (comes with original spec. sheet)

Comes with Burton Carrier bingdings.

Ridden for one season.

Asking $150.

Just thought I's let it out there...

[Kirk]

That's cool, here's my quote, "Don't spend more than $600 for any board brand new and not more than $250 used"... Unless of course you are competing in the upcoming Olympics or are a member of the Hilton family, then fine.

:confused:

[photodad2001]

:confused:

It's my advice. I see no need for over priced gear. Unless it's for custom graphics, that's COOL!!!

[Guest JohnBauer]

Is it possible that the two biggest critics for buying Burton FP's/UP's have a hidden agenda?

One critic sells higher end alpine boards and the other is associated with a high end board maker.

As more cheap Burton alpine boards are sold, it chips away at the available market for the higher-end stuff.

Sure, Gilmore recommended some other boards. But other than Oxygens, good luck finding those "other" recommendations. And did he really recommend some asyms?

Sure, I bought a metal Prior ($500 used and slightly chipped), and it's a waaaay ahead of my Oxygen Proton. But I wouldn't hesitate recommending an Oxygen Proton or Burton FP to someone that's just starting out.

No way a beginner will be able to tell the difference between the old Proton and newer Metal Prior. I consider myself an intermediate carver, and I couldn't really tell the difference between the Oxygen and metal Prior until the snow started to get icy. But, on icy conditions, the difference was like night and day!!! And what beginner wants to be out on an icy day?

So for the OP, get that FP/UP, improve on the cheap stuff, and figure out what you want. But if you've got the budget, you might as well spend it and get that metal alpine board. Because a good metal board can make that icy day feel like hero conditions.

[Guest JohnBauer]

"Don't spend more than $100 for a Burton"? That's cool, here's my quote, "Don't spend more than $600 for any board brand new and not more than $250 used"... Unless of course you are competing in the upcoming Olympics or are a member of the Hilton family, then fine.

Every single alpine board that isn't targetted at beginners is over $600. Your advice is just as bad as the advice you received about not spending over $100 on a Burton.

[photodad2001]

Every single alpine board that isn't targetted at beginners is over $600. Your advice is just as bad as the advice you received about not spending over $100 on a Burton.

Just trying to balance the forum. Everyone on here scratchin' their heads wondering, "uh... why don't more kids get into carving?" Because they've been scared to death thinking if they don't buy a board "they can grow into" then they shouldn't bother because they are making a mistake. I'll let you know right now, for over 20 years I have never spent more than $399 for a board new or used and plan on keeping it that way. I've found some GREAT deals, but think pushing the dollar issue, again, unless you're entering the upcoming Olympics or have money to burn is hurting the sport. I LOVE that vidoe of they guy laying it down on the Burton and I love the PJ vid clips of them getting nuts on some even older Burton Aces!!!! Equipment isn't the sport, I think we all lose track of that at times. We get caught up in latest trends, materials, etc. If you can't do it on a cheap board I'm sorry you have that handicap (and an expensive one at that), don't take it out on others that don't find it necessary. And it really isn't necessary.

[Guest JohnBauer]

I love the video of the rider being refered to as "riping" on a burton board.

I watched the video and see a board failing to proform at the level of a rider who has a lot of room for improvement.

After that critique, I think it’s only fair that Bordy post a video of himself showing how it’s done on the latest and greatest metal board.

In my amateur opinion, Noschoolrider is ripping. NSR is riding the Burton within it’s limits and looking very smooth.

Bordy complained several times how he’s always breaking Burtons. Well, maybe Bordy needs to change his inputs and ride the Burtons in the proper manner so that they don’t break.

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[Guest JohnBauer]

thrilled with driving...

I would strongly discourage you from getting any snowboard that has nose soft enough to fold in heavy snow conditions.

Isn’t that about the only knock on Kessler superboards and other titanal boards?

With that logic, we shouldn’t get any of the titanal boards!

[photodad2001]

Isn’t that about the only knock on Kessler superboards and other titanal boards?

With that logic, we shouldn’t get any of the titanal boards!

I'd say that's sound advice. You pay over a grand for a board that from what I've heard from users on this forum, breaks, and has topsheet issues.

[bobdea]

Isn’t that about the only knock on Kessler superboards and other titanal boards?

With that logic, we shouldn’t get any of the titanal boards!

excluding kesslers and the new generation of kessler like boards you're DEAD wrong

my metal prior that's stiffened by 10% for me @ 260 has not folded and I have gotten on it pretty good in slop, chop, wet and pow.

I have a metal coiler here, same deal, I have a metal coiler stubby that should be here tomorrow or the next day and I will go out and see if I can fold it.

BTW, you speak of hidden agendas, most of the pro burton preachers here have burtons that they're gonna sell or are selling.......

Accusations can go both ways