Burton FP's and Ultraprimes

[nadia]

This is a call out for thoughts and feelings on Burton FP's and Ultraprimes.

I was fortunate enough to be able to demo my first alpine board (an Ultraprime) not long ago, and took a shining to it. That's all I needed to be converted from softboots!

I was surprised not to see any reviews for these boards on the Carvers Almanac. I'd like to pick the brains of anyone with experience with these boards willing to talk about it :p.

How would either of these shape up as a first alpine board?

I've been softbooting for 11 seasons, and am starting to fish around for alpine gear.

Thanks, folks!

[John Gilmour]

thrilled with driving...

but none ever bought a second Yugo few years later. And most regretted buying their first Yugo.

I would strongly discourage you from getting any snowboard that has nose soft enough to fold in heavy snow conditions.

Look to prior, F2, Donek, Coiler and any other well respected brands that have well engineered flex patterns.

Boards with noses that can fold easily can result in upper body damage.

[bobdea]

there are much better things to come across BUT if one falls in your lap go for it.

the factory primes I felt were a little better than the ultra primes.

Coiler, donek, prior, madd and f2 all make dramatically better products.

F2 speedsters can be for $250ish, that's the way I'd go if I were on a budget and was just starting out.

if you're a lightweight and want something turny try this http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?t=20702

and help a young canadian racer out!

that board retails close to $1000 US

[BadBrad]

You'll see a lot of Burton bashing on this forum, but the fact is that they made some good boards. I own a Madd and a Prior, and like them a lot, but I also still like my Burton UltraPrime and Alp.

I think it also depends on your skill level, aggressiveness, and weight. When I was 140 lbs I loved the UltraPrime and Alp. They were forgiving, had easy turn initiation, and did pretty well in the bumps and crud too. And the build quality is superb. Now that I'm 170 lbs and stronger I find that I prefer something stiffer like the Madd, but I can still have a lot of fun on the Burtons too.

I agree that newer technology boards like the new Priors, Doneks, Coilers, Madds, and F2s are probably better than the Burtons, but I don't think the difference is that great. The biggest difference I found was that the newer boards have more edge hold. However, they also tire me out more and are less forgiving.

If you can afford it, get a new or slightly used Donek, Coiler, Prior, et.al., but a used Burton can be a very good board at a bargain price. I recently sold a pristine UltraPrime for $85, and it will make an excellent carving board for the right rider.

[SEJ]

I agree with BadBrad. There are much better boards out there, but if you can get a Burton cheap, It's not a bad starter board. My first two carvers were an Alp and a FP. Key work here is cheap. If you're going to spend a chunk of money, go for the better brands already mentioned. But, you know, some people still ride Burtons and love them. If you buy Burton, watch out for a concave base. A lot of them have it.

[queequeg]

A burton factory prime is an ok starter board, but I wouldn't use any other burton board for carving, the others tend to have a nose that is just way too soft and will fold. If you can get one for under $100, go for it, otherwise, I would put my money towards something that you will not outgrow.

[bobdea]

A burton factory prime is an ok starter board, but I wouldn't use any other burton board for carving, the others tend to have a nose that is just way too soft and will fold. If you can get one for under $100, go for it, otherwise, I would put my money towards something that you will not outgrow.

this is true, people who say the difference is not that great I'd really like to see what they're riding.

There are some pretty good burton rides as far as boards without the metal laminates go but these burtons are few and far between because they were custom boards for team riders.

as far as stock factory primes go, they're comparable to a donek axxess but not as grippy, rugged or well built and with a spot on the nose that can kink. As far as doneks go the axxess is my least favorite that I have been on. the FP 185 and 178 are not as bad in fact the 178 is very comparable to the axxess other than the width. but still

I don't hate burton, I must of had 10 or so primes over the years but just about everything these days is better. in 1995 a burton FP was not a bad board by 1998 it was dated in shape and flex, by 2002 now called the speed and the same damn shape as from 1998 it was like a remnant from the past with a pretty topsheet.

If you can stay off the nose in the soft you'll be fine but why bother when you could have something half decent for a little more like a f2

[BlueB]

For some people softer is better. I guess newbs fall in that category. FP or UP, even Alp, for 100$ is still a good deal to try alpine at the entry level. Prior, Donek or Coiler would still set you back about 300$ at least...

I love the Speed Wide. One of the better all-mountain boards, except for the square tail. Yeah, I know, it was ment to be a quasi race board... Compared to 4WD it is less damp, but has more float and energy out of the turns. Yes, I can fold the nose on the bloody thing (aggressive 180lbs), but I know how to ride it to avoid that.

[Jack M]

as far as stock factory primes go, they're comparable to a donek axxess but not as grippy, rugged or well built

Come now, the one thing you can't fault Burton for is build quality. Their construction is tight. I've had a few factory seconds from pro-form that you couldn't see any blems without a trained eye - they would have qualified as firsts from many other manufacturers.

A used FP today would probably be about as stiff as an Axxess, but new they were pretty stiff boards.

Can you learn to rip on a Burton and have fun doing so? Yes. Are today's boards much better? Yes.

[bobdea]

no, you're right burton is top quality but doneks are too and I like that topsheet material on doneks it seems to stop chips and crack very well. Then again the base on the burton was better than on one of my doneks but that's not a durability issue.

my last burton had some issues with the clear coat peeling and cracking, it was one of the speeds with faux mother of pearl topsheet.

still to this day I think it was the best looking alpine rigs I have had.

[boarderboy]

I learned on Burton M decks (really soft) and Alps, which I still ride.

The Alps are softer than the Primes, and in more than a decade of fairly aggressive, intermediate free-carving, I folded the nose of my Alp 160 once. During that time I went from a very in-shape 160 lbs. to a not-so-healthy 180. At 220 lbs., doing very unagressive, fun hardbooting, I still ride an Alp 164.

Thus, echoing what others have said, depending on your weight, usual terrain, and probable aggressiveness, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Factory or UltraPrime as a first alpine board. There are lots of insanely good carvers on this site who regularly take their gear (and their bodies) to the "edge." Many videos hereabouts illustrate that.

But in the end, to me at least, it's all about fun. And depending on how much $$ you want to spend, I'd go for a fairly forgiving first board and spend my bucks on really good-fitting boots (very important) and relatively flexy bindings. That will make learning easier, and fun days funner.

The usual progression is to longer, stiffer boards and stiffer boots/bindings.

I'll stay away from the boots issue because I have no experience with latter-day, carve-specific hardboots. For bindings, the Burton Race Plates (currently available here as Ibex) would probably be a good choice. I think F2 also makes at least one, not-too-stiff binding also.

The anti-Burton bias here is real. But in 20+ years of alpine riding, I've never had a quality/build issue with any of their boards. I hope, in the future, to ride one (or several!) of the premiere makes that have been covered in this string. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you have to have the latest and greatest to learn and progress. And my experience buying "used" off the BOL classifieds has been 100% great.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Petrol]

thrilled with driving...

but none ever bought a second Yugo few years later. And most regretted buying their first Yugo.

I would strongly discourage you from getting any snowboard that has nose soft enough to fold in heavy snow conditions.

Look to prior, F2, Donek, Coiler and any other well respected brands that have well engineered flex patterns.

Boards with noses that can fold easily can result in upper body damage.

oh for Christ's sake, a yugo?

either your clearly exagerating the crap out of your bias or you just plain don't know.

I'm betting heavy on exageration!

First, you can't really compare a new $650+ Prior/Donek/F2/Coiler to a 8-10 year old long out of production $100-$150 Burton board... it isn't even apples to oregano.

Second, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a FP or UP for ripping around the mountain at 6 to 9 tenths... i.e. you don't always have to be ridding 'hamfisted' on the razors-edge to have a good time... I wonder what you would do if you were given the opportunity to drive a classic Tessta-Rosa... would it come back broke with reports of piss poor capabilities compared to todays supercar standards?

Third, a easy turn initiation and softer nose can be a good thing, Especially if your New to Hardboots :p

[queequeg]

First, you can't really compare a new $650+ Prior/Donek/F2/Coiler to a 8-10 year old long out of production $100-$150 Burton board... it isn't even apples to oregano.

Exactly.

[paragonUE]

I think im pretty qualified to comment here, as this was my first year carving, and ive been carving all year on a 99 Burton FP160 with Burton Rattraps and Burton Winds. I personally love my board, its turny, a little stiff before you break it in, and of premium build quality.as a starter board, its great. My basis for comparison is very valid as well, as the other slalom board ive ridden is a nearly new Pogo Overdose 162 with TD2's and deeluxe Track 325's, an obviously more expensive and quality setup. I found it easier to initiate and "pop" around to another turn.

if your looking into burton, Klug still has a few left, he has several 99 160 FP's and som R-17 addicteds, which are comparable to some of the higher end custom boards. the FP's go for about 160, and come with a sweet burton sticker and are brand new.

EDIT: i cant believe im the first to mention the R-17's they are quality carving decks, and dont tend to be more than 3-4 years old when bought NOS

[trailertrash]

this is another example of where video of the riders would really help.

[JJFluff]

I've been riding on ultra primes for the last five or so years. I've always ridden burton boards. Honestly, the last few boards I've bought, have been because I found a board for a good price. If a donek would come along for around $175 I would grab one. But the point being, the board is secondary to ability. And a Burton Fp or Fp prime, are both great boards.

[bobdea]

I've been riding on ultra primes for the last five or so years. I've always ridden burton boards. Honestly, the last few boards I've bought, have been because I found a board for a good price. If a donek would come along for around $175 I would grab one. But the point being, the board is secondary to ability. And a Burton Fp or Fp prime, are both great boards.

separate your ****ing knees!

[bobdea]

oh for Christ's sake, a yugo?

either your clearly exagerating the crap out of your bias or you just plain don't know.

I'm betting heavy on exageration!

First, you can't really compare a new $650+ Prior/Donek/F2/Coiler to a 8-10 year old long out of production $100-$150 Burton board... it isn't even apples to oregano.

Second, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a FP or UP for ripping around the mountain at 6 to 9 tenths... i.e. you don't always have to be ridding 'hamfisted' on the razors-edge to have a good time... I wonder what you would do if you were given the opportunity to drive a classic Tessta-Rosa... would it come back broke with reports of piss poor capabilities compared to todays supercar standards?

Third, a easy turn initiation and softer nose can be a good thing, Especially if your New to Hardboots :p

yes, he can, he was one of the guys at Madd that built boards that blew away the burton stuff in the same time (mid 90's) and STILL compete with modern boards pretty well

Then and even more so now the burton stuff is a yugo compared in performance compared to many other products that if you buy them you'll not want to replace once you can ride. thus saving you cash on the long run.

[Allee]

Cool, Bob, we get the point that you hate FP's and UP's. Really. Taken on board. You hate them. Other people like them. Move along already.

Without knowing anything about Nadia, how can you say that this won't be a good starter board for her? I could have benefited tremendously from having something softer, wider and more forgiving as my first alpine board. If she can score one of these for $100 and flog the backside out of it for a season, then it was worth it. Then she can move up when she's got the hang of the basics, without wrecking an expensive board in the process. A Burton may not meet your (sniff) high standards, but I seem to remember that you've actually owned your fair share of c**p in the day too - and at the time, you probably thought it was the shiznit!

Nadia, welcome to the forum, as one girl to another. Please forgive the boys. Using the B word is always a sure fire way to get them beating their chests.

The only word of advice that I might give is that with the Burton boards, you'll probably have to go with Burton raceplates because of the three hole mount pattern. Very few binding manufacturers make mounting plates for the 3 hole, they're all 4 hole. I think the TD1's from Bomber were the only other common binding that fits 3 hole - can someone confirm or deny?

This might not be a problem for you, you might like the raceplates, especially if you're lighter. But it's always nice to have the option to move to a different binding, one that will move between any other boards you might get further down the line.

That's the only downside I can see. Cheers. Resume normal programming.

[Petrol]

Excellent advice Allee

yes, he can, he was one of the guys at Madd that built boards that blew away the burton stuff in the same time (mid 90's) and STILL compete with modern boards pretty well

Then and even more so now the burton stuff is a yugo compared in performance compared to many other products that if you buy them you'll not want to replace once you can ride. thus saving you cash on the long run.

mmmm, yea...

Oh, I get it!!

That really is some great advice bob. Tell a newbie to carving that she has to forego a seasons pass and 5 tanks of gas, spend a boatload on a sweet board that could be over her head or to narrow a focus to fulfill her needs. And then when she decides hardboots and carving aren't for her, we can scoop up her equipment for a song :rolleyes:

[Trenchman]

I have a 160 FP and have rode it hard all season. At 200lbs and 5'10" it's too short for me, older than I want it to be, and I can still rip on it.

I took it to ECES and rode it back to back with a 164 metal Coiler PR with a similar sidecut. The Coiler was alot damper but had a similar feel.

I will be ordering a new Coiler over the summer.

This weekend is the first time I had the nose fold on me...while carving thru 10 inch piles of slush and holding the edge on the ice beneath. I made 5 good runs thru this crud, then went ass over teakettle 3 times on my last run.

It was alot of fun!:D

I would recommend this board as a good board for starting out on a budget.

here is a short vid of me on my factory prime.

P.S. I am using TD1's for bindings.

[JJFluff]

separate your ****ing knees!

Never!!!!!!

Go Brewers.

[nadia]

It certainly does sound like I've stirred the collective pot re: the B word.

From glancing at other posts helping rookies gather info on appropriate board sizes, I think I'm starting to piece things together. But feel free to chip in.

At 5'8", 160 lbs (muscular!), I'm a fairly agressive rider. The ultraprime I demoed was a 165. Its owner said I was a natural. From my trace and measure job, 26.5 boot (approx. 8.5-9 mens US).

I was thinking something in the 160-165 range..? The student budget will certainly govern options. As pretty as the custom fancy-pants options are, I will be looking for a well-loved garage sale beater.

Keep the BURTON brainstorm fired!

[bobdea]

Excellent advice Allee

mmmm, yea...

Oh, I get it!!

That really is some great advice bob. Tell a newbie to carving that she has to forego a seasons pass and 5 tanks of gas, spend a boatload on a sweet board that could be over her head or to narrow a focus to fulfill her needs. And then when she decides hardboots and carving aren't for her, we can scoop up her equipment for a song :rolleyes:

petrol, since when is five tanks of gas and a season pass $150 because that's about the difference between a FP and madds, doneks coilers and so on in the classifieds

I rode burton forever and I'd actually like to see burton come back to alpine but the fact is that primes are dated just like rossignol throttles and most other boards from that period. Look at my posts, I am constantly defending burton they generally offer solid product in their current softboot line.

Where did I name a specific board that was for narrow use? Burton wanted people to think FPs were real deal race boards when they were closer to all mountain carvers. Lets say I said for rider x to get a Madd 170 over a FP 167, the madd is easier to ride anyway.

I did say the 178 and 185s were not as bad if that's what you mean.

Have you owned any of the said boards petrol?

[bobdea]

Never!!!!!!

Go Brewers.

lol, you got the humor!

I probably should of put a smiley into the other post