Preference for big sidecut radius?

[BadBrad]

I am still fairly new to this forum, but it looks to me as if there is a general preference here for large sidecut radii, essentially GS board shapes. I've always had a preference for turny boards, more like a slalom shape. Maybe that's because of the small hills I usually ride or maybe because I like to carve at moderately fast speeds instead of very fast speeds.

I was just wondering if there were others here that also prefer shorter boards with a smaller sidecut radius. Is it primarily advanced and aggressive carvers that like the longer GS style boards, or do they also work well for less aggressive riders?

I guess I need to demo some of these longer GS type boards and see if I can make them work for me.

[Strider]

Well, it seems most of the people on the board live out east, or out west where they have more than 300 vertical to ride on. I may be totally wrong, but this would definitely influence my decision. I ride a Coiler 178 with a 13.2 sidecut when my hill is not too crowded (300 vertical, narrow runs). However, I am on my AM board with a 9.5 radius a lot because when you pack a ton of people into a little space you just can't lay down huge arcs, even when you wait at the top for a good opening. I know when I go out west I can ride a whole different style and turn shape because it feels like the mountain is a mile wide with no one on it compared to at home.

[tex1230]

you can make a big scr board turn tight, but you can't make a small scr board turn big

[pebu]

My hill has a vert of 350 feet or so and I like my nitro with I believe a 9.6m scr. I think it helps to get as many turns as you can going down the hill. On a gs you might get 4 or 5 good turns goin down a hill, but on an sl, you might get a dozen. And with the shorter sidecut you can still lay it down even though you're not going as fast. GS definately has it's place, but for small (and crowded) hills, sl is the way to go.

[BadBrad]

you can make a big scr board turn tight, but you can't make a small scr board turn big

I would have thought the opposite. On my small scr boards I can go straight (an infinitely big arc), I can make a big radius turn by not leaning it over very far, or I can make a really tight turn by cranking it over on the edge. It seems like it would be hard to make a big scr board make a small arc unless you are going really fast and bend it in the middle.

[C5 Golfer]

this is probably why most of us have 10+ boards in the quiver.

[Strider]

I would have thought the opposite. On my small scr boards I can go straight (an infinitely big arc), I can make a big radius turn by not leaning it over very far, or I can make a really tight turn by cranking it over on the edge. It seems like it would be hard to make a big scr board make a small arc unless you are going really fast and bend it in the middle.

You can do it by really being aggressive and decambering the board a ton........or by the usual method..skidding :D Really though, it is still tough to make those split second small radius turns needed in tight quarters on the really big boards. I would also guess that a lot of the people who disagree with that have not ridden on a small hill with a big weekend crowd. Imagine the beginner area on a western hill with about 600 people spread over its 4 runs and you have what we get here on the weekends.

[queequeg]

I can make a big radius turn by not leaning it over very far, or I can make a really tight turn by cranking it over on the edge.

This is true, but at higher speeds, if you crank it over on edge your turns will be incredibly brief, require incredible power and extremely precise balance to maintain--and if you try to hold them out too long (on anything steep) you will in all likelihood blow-out. I had this problem on my Ride Kildy (~9.5 I'm guessing?) and it went away when I switched to the more moderate (though not long) sidecut on my Donek FC II (11.75).

So it's true that you can carve long on a short scr board, you can't really carve long and laid-out at speed on one (at least, not without allowing some slippage between the board and the snow).

As I see it the only disadvantage of a longer sidecut is that you need to be mooving a little faster in order to start carving. Though, on a really crowded east coast weekend, I think a short SCR is DEFINITELY handy for collision-avoidance.

[Steve Prokopiw]

A longer board with a bigger radius can be made to carve within tighter parameters;it is just a combo of more physical work and a higher level of skill development and practice .The same goes for making a short radius board still leave a line in the snow along a longer arc than it was designed for.I also agree with the other posts here btw.

[Mike T]

... is to have a quiver with a good mix :)

I've got carvers that go from 10.5 - 17 m, the only thing missing is a SL deck. I used them all regularly. I just haven't found the right SL deck yet. I suspect that problem will eventually solved by adding yet another Coiler to my quiver...

[BadBrad]

Thanks for all the replies. Very educational.

I have an old 156 Alp that I still enjoy a lot. It makes nice quick tight turns without a lot of effort and is pretty forgiving in the bumps. At higher speed or when the slope gets steeper I do sometimes get some chatter or wash-out. I always figured it was due to poor technique/lack of skill, but perhaps the short lengthe, short radius, and relatively soft flex are partly to blame. (I also have a 156 Ultra Prime and recently bought a new 164 Prior 4WD, which I am very eager to ride.)

[mr_roboteye]

I agree that it just depends on how wide and steep of a run you're going to be on. I have been caught on ridiculously busy slopes on the lower parts of Whistler around Christmas time on my burner 188 and it's no fun trying to skid that plank around all the little kids ski school classes and slow, slow beginners on the lower mountain. I usually ride a 185 with a radius around 14m. My turniest board is an ultra prime 162 @ 11.21m. But when you have enough room to let the longer boards run, there isn't much else like it.

It's perspective as well, some people (a few here and there) will read my post and say "188 isn't long, try a 210+, or 250+." Bryan S. and Doug D. to name the ones I know of.

If there is enough skill, determination and experience (AKA balls) though, almost anything can be ridden anywhere. I saw a video one time of a guy riding a real surfboard in deep powder. I don't think I could be convinced to try that.

later,

Dave R.

[Przemek/Brooklyn]

I prefer big radius, way beter for EC, my swoard is around 13 if i recall it right, but on east coast weekend it is more of AM game. I tend to swich to renn tiger or tanker depend on condition, for PM. Advantage of big radius board is that you go faster and you have more time to go really low on the turn. Small radius does not really work that way but it can be a lot of fun for different kind of riding for exemple if you need to deal with small bumps, ice and random people on the slope.

[Snowman]

Life begins after 15m. I prefer big boards on big mountains. Its that rush that only speed can give you. Abasin is a gs to super g dream and that truly is one of my favorite hangouts. When conditions are right Abasin is hands down one of the best carving mtns but bring only big sticks. My 2 cents.

Think Snow

[vapor]

Bad Brad,i'm with you. i prefer the shorter stick for various reasons but i guess the main reason is not wanting to speedbump the multitude of little kids who seem to ride with blinders on. i would love to try something with a more gs radius.....don't think it will go with my ferret on crystalmeth/short radius riding style.

pebu. im interested in what nitro board you picked up and what you think of it.

[Fastskiguy]

Got a 10.2m, an 11.2m, and now a 13m board in the quiver here, ride on 300 foot hills in the midwest. Here's a pic of some arcs from the 11.2 and the 13 intermixed....can't tell'em apart, can ya? (try to ignore the skipping track....more on that in another thread).

Thing is, you've gotta go faster on the longer SCR boards so you can tip'em up higher on edge and bend them into a tighter arc. It's harder to do, takes more energy and speed. The smaller SCR boards are easier and can you can go slower and still crank it way over.

Not sure what is better, I think you've gotta have several to choose from :)

[NateW]

Bigger sidecut is more fun when there's room to use it, and less fun when there isn't. If I can't get enough speed to really lean it into the turns (due to crowds or narrow runs or whatever), then it gets kind of boring. But in places where I can then it's more fun to make a few big fast turns rather than several smaller turns at lower speeds.

FWIW, "big" for me is 15m, "small" is 10m, and 12-13 is a compromise that's fun anywhere around here. But I can totally see how 10m or less would be the most fun choice on a smaller or more crowded hill.

[tufty]

I like slalom decks. 9m radius or so. Nervous, turny, and you can crank them hard at lowish speeds. Hard to EC on them, of course. What I like most is being able to lay down 15 turns where a bigger deck might lay down 5, and having a radius small enough to enable you to carve donuts even on not-massively-wide slopes.

There's also the issue that the speed required to make a GS board perform to its max is close to / exceeding the speed limit after which my balls retract into my abdomen :)

Simon

[BadBrad]

I also have that internal speed limit. It's funny because I'm generally into high-speed sports and I like the adrenaline rush I get from them. I do sports car road racing, autocross, triathlons, and mountain bike racing, and I'm a fearless descender on the bike, often passing a lot of people on the technical downhills. But when I get going over a certain speed on a snowboard my brain starts saying, "You know, at this speed it could really hurt if you fall."

In spite of that, you guys now have me interested in trying some longer boards with a bigger scr. I'll have to demo a couple at SES.

[Snowman]

Dont crash. Although its sometimes unavoidable do you best not to. Knock on wood I havent have a bad crash for at least 4 years now. I do consider myself fortunate but a high skill level helps. Big boards are to be worked up to not started on. Its all about time on the hill and hours on the board. Be patient it doesnt happen overnight.

ThinK Snow

[b0ardski]

Whoever dies with the most perfect turns wins:biggthump

[JJFluff]

I ride a 167, not sure the sidecut, its the only alpine board I ride, I can turn any radius on it. I spend all my time riding on 214ft of verticle, and 35 skiable acres. It's big mountain riding.

[D.T.]

IMO, it's all about having the right tool for the job at hand. I typically swap boards during the day as conditions change. I like large radius turns, I like small radius turns (but I do not like green eggs and ham, sorry).

My quiver has been really dynamic as I have focused in on the characteristics I like, want, and require. SCR's for my current alpine boards are: 9.7m, 11.5m, 14m, 16m, 19m.

[SEJ]

I like to ride the longest board conditions permit, but it did take me a while to "grow into" the longer boards. It takes more energy, but it's more of a rush. You just can't get those kind of G forces on a short board. I agree with the fact that on crowded hills the big GS boards suck. Even if you could ride them fast enough to make them work you would probably end up getting your ticket pulled.

[philw]

I don't get to resorts much, but they're full of people going slowly and turning erratically... my GS board would do pretty well straight-lining on a speed course, and it turns really well once you get it up to Mach 2. But then the speed patrollers want you to slow down, or there are some bumps to ride... In summary I prefer a squirrelly slalom board.

Riding a board in less-than-optimal conditions is going to be a compromise. You can choose which side you approach it from.

>Is it primarily advanced and aggressive carvers that like the longer GS style boards, or do they also work well for less aggressive riders?

I don't think so. Obviously anyone with a big stick is more manly than I'll ever be, but you may actually need less aggression to cruise a GS board fast than to ride a tough Slalom board hard.