Knees together or apart?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Billy, when you say stuff like:

Most of the posters on this board are the reason Alpine snowboarding does not progress......

People are going to take it personally. But I always find your comments interesting. You also said:

But alpine riders think their board which sometime cost more to make then a pair of baddass skiis should be a bargain? I get complants all the time about the cost of a new pair of Indys, Then I walk into Sure foot and watch some dude drop 1000 on boots with out bitching.

Which is true enough. There is certainly a culture in high-end skiing where people pay big bucks for the latest gear. I'll bet only a few of them are truly capable of pushing the limits of their gear, and most would do just as well on older boards or maybe something softer and more suited to their ability.

I get where you're coming from about latest technique being able to drive the latest gear, but for most of us who aren't on-snow professionals and get (like me) a dozen days in the real mountains a year, how do we benefit from dropping big coin every year, aside from supporting the industry? Hard to justify a new metal Prior when I've got a 3 year old Coiler that works fine within my limited riding capabilities.

[Bordy]

I never try to get a rise out of anyone, I just type like I was talking, I know i come across like a prick to alot of riders on the board, But most of the time it because I am so straight foward and or they have no Idea where I am coming from. When I use the same words in person they come across very differently because I can throw in a giggle or what ever to lighten the mood plus most of the listenerns respect me enough to under stand I just throwing my 2-cents in they then take it for what it is worth baised on their relation ship with me

Online i am just some guy with a picture on a Jeep. Most posters think I am just talking some crap I heard and treat me as so. But most of the time I just sound like i know it all on line. Which right away sends out a prick vibe. Most of the time i talk snowboarding in person every one listens and ask nice questions. Bummer online is I am just sharing info but its like trying to talk sports cars(to use your words) with the guys when I have indy car experance. I really try hard to not belittle anyones riding or ideas but I don't agree with what you are saying. I think you find it hard beleive I may really have the experance to do so and take it personally. Then you fire back. Thats cool. I have been in more heated threads on this site then almost anyone. I really dont take it personally but if you are going to take personal jabs at me I'll take offense. Also to veiw a video where we are trying to EC in all the wrong gear and conditions in april to prove a point, then base your veiw of riding off it and then make comments is great I love the feed back just make sure you get the purpase of the video, please dont rate Mine or Phils riding based on it.

I knocked your gear and your knees together idea but not you personally.

You tried to defend yourself the entire thread and new you where going to catch hell about it. You even said so in your first post. Why were you so surprised when it happend?

There is a whole nother level of snowboarding that most posters on this board are unaware of. I was talking with several top riders at the race to the cup and they all wish the general public whould start to see and enjoy the current crop of gear and technique. This post was a great oppertunnity for me to remind the BOL communitty of that.

many riders, myself included really want to move our sport into to 00 and out of the 90 where it has been stuck, Your gear and technique discussed in this thread are prime examples of what We are tryijng to push through.

The image of snowboarding on this board in this thread or community are well be hind the current treand. I have focused my Carrer, my website, our stock, and my riding towards the future. I hate hearing from other pros how this forum is just a waist of time, and every one here is just holding the sport back and making OUR sport look silly. I see BOL as a chance to help spread the word and take plenty of licks trying to do so.

It is really all worth it to me. Even if I come acroos "strong" It becuase I beleive in what I am saying! And to be honest some time many of the Post are wrong and I come straight in and say so. But because you can really snowboard how every you want I can be proven wrong also. So it is much easier to just make my point and leave. However since I have been up sick all night I had the time to reread and respond again.

How do you think it feels to have a whole bunch of knowledge but then get flamed when you share it.

Perhaps I should go the way of all the other pros who got frustrated sharing here and just walk away, But I won't.

There really is only about 5 people on BOL that have similar knowledge and most of them are so tired of Flame wars over the most basic issues that they limit or hold their comments for fear of more issues???

All this on a Forum to help Alpine riding grow.

All it really every does is limit the sport ant the FACTUAL info.

So I type.....I type with all of the Passion I have for the sport and if thats to much then to bad.

I know I have done and am doing my part, for the sport. If it means I have to Type all morning some days then so be it.

I really don't care how I come across on line, The people who know me never complain in person. I am a straight shooter....

And now that the wind is coming up I am going Kiting.

[Bordy]

Billy, when you say stuff like:

People are going to take it personally. But I always find your comments interesting. You also said:

Which is true enough. There is certainly a culture in high-end skiing where people pay big bucks for the latest gear. I'll bet only a few of them are truly capable of pushing the limits of their gear, and most would do just as well on older boards or maybe something softer and more suited to their ability.

I get where you're coming from about latest technique being able to drive the latest gear, but for most of us who aren't on-snow professionals and get (like me) a dozen days in the real mountains a year, how do we benefit from dropping big coin every year, aside from supporting the industry? Hard to justify a new metal Prior when I've got a 3 year old Coiler that works fine within my limited riding capabilities.

For sure Neil,

I of course under stand, But it is just as hard for me to justify feed back from a dozen day rider on a 3 year old coiler if we are talking current boards and technique. I am of course not knocking you or your gear, Just saying as much as you don't require the Metal Prior(but you would sure like it) I really don't require a knees together style or a argument about some thing so silly( but I still like it) but becasue it has to do with alpine riding we will still have fun talking about it!!!

But there are a lot of mutiple day a week riders still on outdated gear who could justify a step into the now.... The cool thing abour alpine riding is every one could be benifiting from the new gear if it was practical for them. Comparing Older carving gear and metal anyhing is a lot like straight vs shaped skiis!!..

[Neil Gendzwill]

But it is just as hard for me to justify feed back from a dozen day rider on a 3 year old coiler if we are talking current boards and technique.

Which is why I tend to listen or just ask questions when you or some of the other pros are talking. But what I do know is there's only so far the gear can take you, and most of it you have to do yourself. Everyone has to make their own call between what's good and what's good enough.

Besides which, I'd probably just bend that shiny metal Prior when I took it into the bumps.

[Kirk]

JJ, not criticism, just an observation. This will probably come out wrong, but what the hell...

You spoke of open mindedness in this post:

"I wouldn't ask these types of questions if it wasn't out of curiousity, and to try to understand more about the sport. It's that open mindedness in life that helps you gain the most knowledge."

But in your original post, I didn't see any "questions" in there and not too much that indicated "openmindedness". Same with some of the posts that followed.

"I say, keep those knees together, and drive through the turn. Granted, I know I am going to be out numbered on this one. But I do know, when I ride I feel extremely comfortable and balanced on top of my snowboard. And I really think I have something going here. I'm not angulated, but I'm not stretching out completely inclinated either. I just maintain a well balanced, athletic stance. When done well, the board will do anything you want it to. Its not EC, but just a powerful, strong stance. Every part of the body working together. When maintaining parallel shoulders, your hips go in on direction, and the upper body in the other."

"Yeah, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. I just wanted to get a good discussion going out there."

"Crave to Carve, thanks for props man. I'm just trying to stir the pot a bit. We haven't gotten out on snow yet here because of warm temps, and I'm just trying to pass the time, and get a good thread going."

What's my point?

Here it is: I remember riding asyms with 16-17" stances and my knees came together quite nicely! Seemed natural and comfy! And I rode this gear up through the mid-90s Hey, it carved just fine! Hell, I even remember a time ('94 -ish) that I said "I can't imagine riding anything other than asym for alpine - NO WAY!" "Riding with a wider stance than 17"?, NO WAY!" "Riding stuff longer than mid-160s?, What for?!"

I think, like the sport, my riding has evolved through observing/riding with other riders more experienced and knowledgeable than me, trying newer gear, and having some coaching here and there. I know my riding is QUITE different from 10-15 years ago - and that's a GOOD thing. I hope to keep it going in that direction. After about 13 years of hardbooting, I still have plenty to learn, plenty to refine, and a WHOLE lot more gear to try! I look forward to it!! Though not a WC racer or anyting like unto it, I do dable in some racing and REALLY appreciate where competitive racing has pushed the sport - from gear to technique! I truly believe it does progress alpine. It took me a while to "open my mind" and allow new stuff - NO REGRETS! And I can honestly say that using technique from 12-13 years prior would NOT allow me to ride some of the stuff that I have been for the past few years nearly as effictive.

Hey, I still believe in the "ride what, how, where, etc... makes you happy". Riding is riding and it should be fun like others have said. But if "openmindedness" is the philosophy and "gaining knowledge" is your interest, you may want to give some of this other stuff (technique & gear) another try. NOT saying one should run out and spend BIG $$ on new gear either. Events like SES, WTC, etc. allow for trying all kinds of gear and riding with other folks. That extra bit of knowledge and experience helps decide if you want to plan, save, invest, whatever, in that particular board, binding, etc. If you're able to get out there (SES), I say give it another shot!! If the other sampled "stuff" aint cutting it for ya and you're still stoked on your UP, then keep on rockin' it man! You look like you're having fun - I guess that IS the point. Could even more enjoyment be had? Maybe.

As for me, I WILL have a metal Prior under my feet at least once this season I'll figure out how to pay for it during the coming year

Now, someone needs to teach me how to more effectively use the quoting function on the forum here :o

[Mike T]

Mike T,

I little to straight with the frount leg which can cause bump or slide out and removes alot of weight from the edge under the frount foot. You want to be over the board a bit more and make the "angles" with your lower body. You are just a bit prone to geting off balance in that out stretch position, but still a great turn it sure looks like you are having fun and moving your mass well!!!

Thanks - I really appreciate the feedback!

(My front leg may not be as straight as it looks in the photo due to all the black in the snowpants... even if that is the case, the feedback is valuable to me and I will pay attention to what I am doing with the front leg on my heelsides tomorrow morning on the hill!)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Now, someone needs to teach me how to more effectively use the quoting function on the forum here :o

Select (highlight) the text you want to include as a quote. Then punch the quote button which appears rightmost on the list of icons above the edit window and looks like this:

[dshack]

While brand new F2 speedsters get a year older siting on the rack at bomber, or hardbooter, unused and unsold. So the next year less stuff is ordered because no one understands how good the new boards are, mean while on the very site Fin is trying to use to help make money on alpine gear two guys sit and discuss what rides better a oxyagen from 95 or a burton from 96 then every newbie on the site runs to the classifeds to find these super rad sticks..

Its just bunk.

I know I am going to get a bunch af crap but every year I say the same thing. Most of the posters on this board are the reason Alpine snowboarding does not progress......

...if you have ever told any rider they can get a sweet carving set up on e-bay for cheap then you are for sure part of the problem!!! I watch e-bay all the time and have only seen on or two sweet setups for sale ever. Any time you tell some one the 50 dollar pair of boots listed are great you are lying to them and slowing the progression of the sport!!

If you want people to invest in a hobby, and you want to build your base of participants, there has to be an accessible price point for entry. Every single new alpine board (save the Donek Pilot) costs more than my entire setup did combined. There are a good number of people out there, I'm thinking mostly high school, college, and graduate students, who can't exactly drop $600 on a board.

It's fun to talk about the perfection of the sport, pushing your limit with better gear, and the advances boards have made in ten years, but I've seen a good many posts by people who started out on a $150 FP or alp, had a great time railing turns, and moved up to one of the pricier boards. I'd argue people plugging cheap gear are advancing the sport plenty.

[James Ong]

1 - I'm *pretty sure* I saw JJ riding at the 05 SES, based on his avatar, the pictures he posted here, his technique, and his equipment. Whoever it was, he was ripping. I was impressed. Very clean, very graceful, very playful. I was like, man, look at that guy make that old school technique work! However the problem is that on those conditions my grandmother could rock on a Hot Logical.

Nice backhanded compliment, you oughta revive the EC ( east coast) vs. west coast discussion.

The problem with drawing parallels with the evolution of skiing equiptment is that we (hardbooters) were alredy carving when all the cut skis came out.

So your a non racing hardbooter , how do you find the drive to try something new and improve?

If a person can alredy carve clean lines on most any groomed run how do you convince him that there is a better way? especially if there is no clock to prove your point.

Uphill battle methinks.

[bobdea]

the people that are hoarding the cheap boards then never buy anything new, you know like the guy that buys four or five boards a year for $100 to 200 a peice and build a huge quiver but does not buy anything off the shelf and to top it off rides around ten days a year.

from Bordy's perspective and mine as well it's irritating because this sport needs people to buy the current stock to survive, People who compete and the more dedicated ski bums dump a insane amount of their money on gear and most of us will buy new gear, often at full price. Many of the people on this board are quite well off compared to those of us who don't make much but are still willing to invest (in my case I've made around $7000 since january) but you guys refuse to buy anything new because you can't live with the idea that you could have whole bunch of mediocre stuff for the same price.

If you can't justify buying a new coiler for $750 US but you can justify a $100 FP two $150 O2s and a few pairs of ghetto plates to go with them in a season, you're not really helping the sport. That is fine go out, ride and have fun but don't claim to be dedicated to the sport.

Those of you that only buy a board every couple years I am not refering to you, that is a different group all together, people that ride the **** out of their gear then get new stuff when it's time is fine.

I often have allot of boards, I was up to 15 or more awhile back and most I bought used but I was also riding every damn day, I was still buying current stock every year as well.

I have been pissy in some of my posts as of late, I have no idea why but sometimes I think many of the people here are the types of people that would fit a certain stereotype that we have for one distinct group of skiers.

I certainly see what Bordy is saying and I agree with him, he words it strongly stronger than I would but thats one of the reasons I smile when I read his posts!

[Bordy]

So your a non racing hardbooter , how do you find the drive to try something new and improve?

If a person can alredy carve clean lines on most any groomed run how do you convince him that there is a better way? especially if there is no clock to prove your point.

Uphill battle methinks.

Its so easy to feel the differance in good gear vs not as good gear. Do you think your 203 rides the same way and needs the same input and or deleivers the same type of ride as say a sims burner??? Or a madd 180? But when you ride them you know there is a huge differance.

Most new school alpine decks make the day easier, more exciting and push the riding limits of any recreational rider. If you are happy just making the same turn every day then stick with the old same old same old. How ever have the chance to work over different sticks and lears to ride each one well is a adventure.

[Bordy]

Thanks - I really appreciate the feedback!

(My front leg may not be as straight as it looks in the photo due to all the black in the snowpants... even if that is the case, the feedback is valuable to me and I will pay attention to what I am doing with the front leg on my heelsides tomorrow morning on the hill!)

Mike its just about staying in over the balance point. If you get to far inside the edge you put the force along the plane of your leg and right out the base of the board. If you stay just a tad more over the board and let your lower body come up under your upper but still make all the same inputs you will place more weight on the edge and not through it. Does this make sense?

Thanks as always for being so polite..

[Bordy]

.

I certainly see what Bordy is saying and I agree with him, he words it strongly stronger than I would but thats one of the reasons I smile when I read his posts!

Yep Its hard to say you are pushing the sport foward when You don't really know where it is right now. You may have a good idea how it all works but how can you be new school on and with old school action???

And as every one here knows I'll push the sport with what ever it takes action on or off the hill, Actions on or off line. I just want everyone to ride better then me so I have more people to ride with....

[James Ong]

Its so easy to feel the differance in good gear vs not as good gear. Do you think your 203 rides the same way and needs the same input and or deleivers the same type of ride as say a sims burner??? Or a madd 180? But when you ride them you know there is a huge differance.

Most new school alpine decks make the day easier, more exciting and push the riding limits of any recreational rider. If you are happy just making the same turn every day then stick with the old same old same old. How ever have the chance to work over different sticks and lears to ride each one well is a adventure.

Funny you should mention the burner and madd 180, i ordered a burner after seeing it for the first time on Mark Fawcett when he was training at mount Rose ( cracked the tail after 40 days btw). The madd 180 i demoed at ses a couple of years ago and loved it exept for the width, but you knew that was coming huh? As i type i'm impatiently waiting for Chris to ship me my metal board :)

I'm with you on supporting the people who keep our sport alive , the more boards the happier i am I just think your message gets lost in the caffein ( or otherwise) induced frenzy.

Honey , not vinegar

[Allee]

the people that are hoarding the cheap boards then never buy anything new, you know like the guy that buys four or five boards a year for $100 to 200 a peice and build a huge quiver but does not buy anything off the shelf and to top it off rides around ten days a year.

Bordy certainly has a point, and for sure newer gear is better, but you have to decide whether you can justify spending the money on the gear. You and Bordy and Phil can, because you ride for months of the year. But for your ten day a year rider who can't afford to go to SES and demo stuff to find out what they should really be dumping the $$$ on, and because of family/house/don't earn enough money reasons, can't justify spending stupid amounts on a quiver, this is only a hobby. Keep it in perspective! An new old board is still something exciting and different, and if it's a "better" old board than their last one, who's to say it won't advance their riding? And don't make the mistake of assuming that we're all wannabe racers - some of us have never aspired to anything more than looking good on a blue run.

You've just spent time trashing people who can't ski but have all the latest gear ... and then you're telling people who can't ride to go out and buy a $1000 board. WTF?? I can't wait to hear what you'd say when I take my Donek out this winter. Boy.

[Bordy]

Bordy certainly has a point, and for sure newer gear is better, but you have to decide whether you can justify spending the money on the gear. You and Bordy and Phil can, because you ride for months of the year. But for your ten day a year rider who can't afford to go to SES and demo stuff to find out what they should really be dumping the $$$ on, and because of family/house/don't earn enough money reasons, can't justify spending stupid amounts on a quiver, this is only a hobby. Keep it in perspective! An new old board is still something exciting and different, and if it's a "better" old board than their last one, who's to say it won't advance their riding? And don't make the mistake of assuming that we're all wannabe racers - some of us have never aspired to anything more than looking good on a blue run.

You've just spent time trashing people who can't ski but have all the latest gear ... and then you're telling people who can't ride to go out and buy a $1000 board. WTF?? I can't wait to hear what you'd say when I take my Donek out this winter. Boy.

Point is you have a donek. No one needs to buy 1000 dollar sticks a new F2 has some cool stuff in it including titanal. Your donek rides great and didn't break the bank I bet.

I just sold a T6 to a guy the other day. all he wanted was the best free ride board we had. Is the guy ever going to use the board to its full potental? Nor is it up to me, he was paying and wanted the best gear. There will always be the die hard out there rocking new gear they may not need. But if they try their hardest the benifits of the good gear may Shorten the learning curve needed to over come the next hurdle, Then they ride a trail they never would have making some sweet turns that they then go home and tell eveyone about and sit and daydream about going out again. That almost seems priceless to me.

Like I said I am not saying everyone needs to go out and get new gear. But if you feel like your riding has leveled out and you just go through the same motions evry time you go out maybe a little "strange" new gear is what you need to break over that humo to the next level. Perhaps you had no idea the next level was even their and the new gear introduced you to it.

I am not rubing it in but I ride a different stick almost every day I go out. It really has made snowboarding better. Every one else I have tinned into riding new gear has thanked me also.

[tufty]

If you can't justify buying a new coiler for $750 US but you can justify a $100 FP two $150 O2s and a few pairs of ghetto plates to go with them in a season, you're not really helping the sport. That is fine go out, ride and have fun but don't claim to be dedicated to the sport.

Sorry, I have to pull you up on that one: someone out, ripping and visibly having fun on a hard setup has to be helping the sport, especially if the person in question isn't an arsehole when people talk to them, points interested newcomers at places like this, etc. The cost of your gear has nothing to do with it.

Now, I know where you're coming from, nobody buying new gear == no new gear next year cause everyone is out of business, but the point is that not everyone can afford to throw down 750$ on a new deck. Hell, what you're talking about throwing down on one deck without bindings blows my entire equipment budget 3 times over, and that budget has to cover *all* the gear I use over winter; i.e. skis, boards, bindings and boots to fit, plus poles, goggles, hats, gloves and other sundries.

I, like most other people running a hard setup, though, spend a lot of time telling people what it's about. Why it's different to a soft setup. Why it's fun. Where in the area they can go to hire hard gear. Where they can go in the area to buy hard gear. What instructors in the area teach on plates. Hell, I've even been known to lend my own boots and board to people... My mate's shop cleared new 10 alpine rigs thanks to me and another friend pointing people in their direction last year.

But no, I'm not buying much new gear. I might end up with my first set of new boots in 10 years this year, if I can swing a decent discount. But I might just get new liners. Again, if I can swing a decent discount. Or I might just make do with what I have for another year. So no. I'm doing nothing for the sport.

Right.

sorry, feeling a bit grumpy :)

Simon

[Bordy]

Today a Burton FP Assym 6.2 sold on eBay for $26

http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-Factory-Prime-Race-Snowboard-6-2-Asym-Regular_W0QQitemZ190055609524QQihZ009QQcategoryZ21250QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also today a Factory Custom FP JJAnderson board sold on eBay for $410 Cdn.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Burton-Factory-Prime-alpine-snowboard_W0QQitemZ220051728666QQihZ012QQcategoryZ21250QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My question is .............are they going to see the snow again or are they going on a wall somewhere like an OLD school trophy?

That 189 JJ used to be my GS shape in the late ninetys. Still out rides every burton production board out there.

I sold it to BOLs own Ben Shurman last I new he was still riding and loving it...

[dshack]

For your ten day a year rider who can't afford to go to SES and demo stuff to find out what they should really be dumping the $$$ on, and because of family/house/don't earn enough money reasons, can't justify spending stupid amounts on a quiver, this is only a hobby....

The pro-pricey deck people have a good point: innovation in boards and the like requires people buying enough from the innovators to support them. Economically, though, it doesn't make sense to mess with the free market. There are more beginning carvers out there, and rising demand for cheap gear. Either manufacturers can follow the examples of Donek (with their Pilot) and make competitors to the cheap, used gear, or they can continue catering exclusively racers/hardcore enthusiasts/the financially secure. The more people that get on boards and ride, regardless of what boards they are, the more people will take their skill past the level of their 'mediocre' equipment and want to upgrade.

I'm with you, bob, on the people who keep an unused quiver of old boards around. Economically, again, this is matress money- uninvested capital that should be under the feet of beginning riders, getting them hooked on the sport.

[Allee]

Point is you have a donek. No one needs to buy 1000 dollar sticks a new F2 has some cool stuff in it including titanal. Your donek rides great and didn't break the bank I bet.

I don't know how the Donek rides yet, but I'd put money on that it rides far, far better than I will ever ride it. It's an extravagant waste. And the only reason I have it is that it was a leaving gift from my last job - otherwise, my $100 Hot Blast with the $150 TD1's, and my $100 WFO with my $80 Oxygen ghetto bindings would be doing sterling duty for another 10 days this season.

Maybe $1000 is a bit OTT, but for somebody with no money a $700 F2 to a $1000 Kessler is a moot point. I could get a weeks vacation in Mexico for that much money.

It's all tools for the job. If you wanted to knock in a few nails into a wall in your house, would you go and buy a $1000 compressor and a nail gun? No, you'd buy a hammer.

[MUD]

Wow! this thread has evolved.......

I totally see what Bob and Bordy are saying and agree. It is one thing to NOT be able to buy new gear PERIOD, you do all you can do just to get on the hill (been there). BUT, to go and buy LOTS of cheap old gear when you can support the industry by buying a new, whatever, only hurts us in the long run.

I am at a point in my life where I can only get stuff periodically, but when I do, it is the best I can afford for the purpose, this may not be new but in my boards case it could be a half season old Donek FCII. The other reason is in MN I only get out every Sunday, if that, and it IS hard to justify it sometimes, but I am the happiest when I do.

I think I may have rambled a little....... Oh well.

[bobdea]

Who I was refering to was the people that buy a insane amount of gear but none of it new and refuse to buy new gear because they want to horde cheap gear. then there is the other end of that as well but they are rare in the alpine snowboarding world, the guy that puts down $1000 for boots, $2000 for the plank and $400 binding with a $2500 one peice ski suite to match but yet only skis a day or two a year and does it all over again next year.

With skiers there is a group who tends to buy up lots of junker skis and never use most of them, and really don't ski much but like to think they do, you can often find them posting on TGR and a couple other forums...

As far as I go with the skiers is that modern gear is a that the guy on modern gear that still skis old school is missing what his skis can do but at least that guy is supporting the industry..

With alpine snowboarders quite honestly if you want the sport to survive you have to support the industry by purchasing new gear, there is not much for low end alpine boards these days because there are not enough people entering the sport to really justify producing such boards. That tells you that the sport is not doing well. If you do buy low end gear from the manufacturer thats great and the same as if it was $1000 at least in the sense that it will help secure that next they will probably keep making alpine gear.

It is just hobby to some but some of us make it our lives, Bordy is doing it and has for a long time, I did it, miss it and may jump back in but with a different goal than he has.

All I want is some decent cord, some good pow days here and there and I'll be happy.

[BlueB]

Every transaction helps the sport. Simple:

By buying an old board a person is doing one, or few, of the following:

1) Going to try something different than currently owned.

2) Put money in somone elses pocket who's outgrown that board and possibly saving for another, latest generation board

3) Creatingt a quiver that is potential loaner to the wanabies

4) Removing the board from the snow forever, thus creating more space and demand for new boards.

What is the right use for the old (but still good) boards? Burn them as the sacrifice to the snow goods? Recycling sounds better... Let them float around. Eventually they'll all delaminate, so there would be some cheep used Doneks, Priors and Kesslers around, and some new technology would come.

[Mike T]

Mike its just about staying in over the balance point. If you get to far inside the edge you put the force along the plane of your leg and right out the base of the board. If you stay just a tad more over the board and let your lower body come up under your upper but still make all the same inputs you will place more weight on the edge and not through it. Does this make sense?

Thanks for clarifying - that does indeed make sense. I'll see whether I can get my body to cooperate tomorrow morning.

[MUD]

Every transaction helps the sport. Simple:

By buying an old board a person is doing one, or few, of the following:

1) Going to try something different than currently owned.

2) Put money in somone elses pocket who's outgrown that board and possibly saving for another, latest generation board

3) Creatingt a quiver that is potential loaner to the wanabies

4) Removing the board from the snow forever, thus creating more space and demand for new boards.

What is the right use for the old (but still good) boards? Burn them as the sacrifice to the snow goods? Recycling sounds better... Let them float around. Eventually they'll all delaminate, so there would be some cheep used Doneks, Priors and Kesslers around, and some new technology would come.

I agree with this as well. Do swap meets hurt the ski industry? I don't think so. They alow people to purchase and ride the gear they want, whether it is finacial or desire, they get it and they are happy.

On another note, if someone does not buy cheap old gear, would they NOT be on the hill at all, even if they could afford new? This hurts us as well.......

This is getting complicated.

We need a new thread.