Jack M Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Does shoulders parallel to the slope mean that, if your body is facing longitudinally down your board, and you're traversing, a bar balanced on your shoulders would be parallel to the slope? Yes. Another way to put is, shoulders <i>level</i> to the slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 as I tell my students when I teach, there is not right or wrong way to snowboard, just more or les efficient techniques. I say if you feel stable pulling your back kne to your front go with it. and there is actually some pivot going on in your turns, especially when pulling the back knee towards the front, but it is slight, as there is obviously less pivot when carving as opposed to skidding, but it is still there.this knees together techniques was popular back in the day because less twist was used to control the board and more pivot. but snowboarding isnt about all this, it's about getting down the mountain in as fun a way as possible and if that involves tucking the back knee, then more power to ya. Yeah, I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. I just wanted to get a good discussion going out there. But I do have to say, I don't pivot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 Crave to Carve, thanks for props man. I'm just trying to stir the pot a bit. We haven't gotten out on snow yet here because of warm temps, and I'm just trying to pass the time, and get a good thread going. So when you say pivoting, are you talking more about twisting the body, vs the board? Right? I definately realize there are different styles out there. And like anything we do, different techniques work better than others as well. I have tried it all over the past 10+ years too. So whatever works. I just wanted to see the reaction I would get. Trust me, I've noticed that I am one of very few, who rides the style that I do. Especially out west. Anyways, till Februrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 A more active style of making your knees go in varying directions can come later... In the meantime, see what basic RELAXATION of the adductors can do for you. I wish we had some der around here Rob. They are going to start to make some artifical der tonight though. You know, I really don't try to hold my knees together. Both knees are are pushing forward and downward towards the nose of the board. When I am entering a turn I am pressuring forward, through the turn. I am pushing the momentum of my entire body, where I want the board to go. You know, it's hard to explain but I forget the boards even there. I believe by keeping the body moving with the board, not the fall line, it takes alot of the forces away from the board, so because of that, I don't need as much edge pressure as somebody who is keeping parrallel shoulders, and focusing to keep the body on top or closer to the board. Anyways, enjoy the der up der in Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 great topic and I'll take all of the help and insight I can get. Only 2 more days 'till I ride again mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFluff Posted November 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 It rained all day here. But I'm an opmtimist, so I guess the wet ground will freeze faster now that the cold air is finally here, and help the manmade stuff stick. So thank God for the rain. And now, let it snow. And keep those knees together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 This is actually great to read guys... well done!! I have a question.... Riding with knees apart... would that require having a back foot binding angle several degrees less that the front?? I ride knee behind knee but there is at least 4-8" between them.. (Wide stance) And I know from pics that the back knee does move around a little.... All in all ....it's good that there is different techniques to try.... Everyone's style is different and that's what makes this sport so brilliant!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Riding with knees apart... would that require having a back foot binding angle several degrees less that the front?? Nope, not at all. I ride knee behind knee but there is at least 4-8" between them.. (Wide stance)And I know from pics that the back knee does move around a little.... Try a little <i>outward</i> cant on your back foot just for grins. Like half a degree. Try dropping your rear knee into toeside turns and feel it <i>underneath</i> you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bordy Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 This is actually great to read guys... well done!! .. All in all ....it's good that there is different techniques to try.... Everyone's style is different and that's what makes this sport so brilliant!! I have been trying real hard not to comment but I have had enough!!! All you guys are doing is steping back into techniques that went the wayside when we started biomechanical evaluations, in the early nintys!!!! This is no where near a new technique. As a matter of fact all you are doing is limiting the energy and force you cam put into the board. Plus you are giving you body a stop point when your knees hit which can and will cuase injury.. The reason Alpine snowboarding has been stuck in a rut, is becuase to many Weekend Warriors Are happy that they can make their super soft...Super old Super crappy gear turn right and left then they think they have the sport mastered and settle right in for a lifetime of the same.... Their is so much more out there to be discovered and progressed!!! Why in the world are we talking about Knees together??? Your roght We should all go back to Checker Pigs and PJs Boaards that required our knees to hit because they where not made to handle the true forces a rider can input!! Lets all go back and get our straight 205 skiis out and have at it also... Rember same rules apply..... Knees ans Skiis together!!! Pure Buuullllllloney. Seperate you knees and welcome to the future. JJFluff sorry dude. Truth is truth and you are wrong and spreading bad info to the rest of the board. Based on very, very very old info(no in no way shape or form did you discover some thing new just some thing horrabliy BAD!!!) I hope you dont take this personally but on thoose begginer carve sticks like your ultra primes, the board is just so Crappy it real doesn't care how you ride it. Step into a Kessler or Tomahawk, Madd, Donek, Coiler, Metal Prior etc. You need to make the correct input! Knees together would leave about 70 percent of the board unused!! Knees together is what made Craig Kelly- famous knees apart is what allowed him to still be a Great snowboard decades later(RIP)_. If you guys want to ride on Par with early 90's Pros then grab your ultra primes, Oxygens, factory primes, Hots etc.. or what ever out dated Crappy old school want to be carve deck you are still hanging onto becuase you think its all you need, lock the knees and have at it. If you want to ride on Par with current gear, technique, etc. Step into the future. It will blow yoiu mind and you will understand why there is new gear intraduced every year instead of Ultra prime remakes etc.. Please help our sport grow!!! Stop the Bad info!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Billy, Now tell us how you REALLY feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Right on Billy. Can we play good cop/bad cop again sometime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikerdad Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Jon, I think Bordy should have posted earlier, before he got so worked up but, looking through the Hardbooter Gallery I think this picture says a lot about what is being discussed here. http://hardbooter.com/gallery/6-January-2006/10237_G Looking forward to riding with you again at SES. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pushee Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Jon, I think Bordy should have posted earlier, before he got so worked up but, looking through the Hardbooter Gallery I think this picture says a lot about what is being discussed here. http://hardbooter.com/gallery/6-January-2006/10237_GLooking forward to riding with you again at SES. Bill Nice. That form reminded me of something - now I remember - the Klingon Bird of Prey. A question for Billy. Am I interpreting correctly - it looks like this caught you at the instant that you were beginning to swap edges. I'm guessing this mostly because it looks like you are just beginning to turn your head to the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djtrussny Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Kind of a douche way to put it, especially trashing other peoples gear that don't put the majority of their income in to quiver but........either way, I was unsure about the topic until it was put straight. Much needed input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 It is actually this kind of attitude that makes people ride how they want, not what's "right"........ I gotta agree, taking a dig at the gear was pretty lame...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfj04 Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 To get everyone off the trashing post, I thought this posting was about how your girlfriend's legs should be - sorry ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timinor Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Bordy said, Seperate you knees and welcome to the future. cfj04 said, I thought this posting was about how your girlfriend's legs should be - sorry I interpreted the who discussion like cfj04 did - was I wrong? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tufty Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 but there happens to be a bit more to the sport than just carving, and with knees together, you aren't going to be able to make it in trees, steeps, or anywhere else on the mountain but groomers. ...says the man with a busted powder stick :) duck and run, duck and run. You do have a point, and I'm personally of the opinion that hell, you should ride how you feel like riding, without excluding doing stuff differently either. Keep an open mind, etc. Wanna carve with your knees together? Wanna carve with your knees apart? Go for it, either way, and preferably both. Simon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 My riding improved tremendously (from absolute crap to passable ) when I went from knees together to knees apart. It's hard to get away with knees together on Northwest slop. Sometimes I wonder if I keep my knees too far apart? (Photo by Sean Martin) Jack, Bordy, others, would love to hear your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 It is actually this kind of attitude that makes people ride how they want, not what's "right"........I gotta agree, taking a dig at the gear was pretty lame...... Well, he could have been more diplomatic, but in a Forum that is historically heavy on technique and in a thread that is specifically technique based, posts like this are not out of bounds. Sure, in carving there is tons of room for individual "style" and "expression". However do not confuse the terms <i>style</i> and <i>technique</i>. In style, there are no fundamental rights and wrongs. In technique, there are. We now know that carving with the knees purposely forced together all the time is simply wrong, just as it now is in skiing as well. Presumably someone posting technique questions wants to improve theirs. Otherwise, they are flame-baiting. They should enter these threads just as they would an on-hill lesson - with an open mind, and some humility. They should be ready to hear what they are doing wrong, and also perhaps that their equipment is obsolete, and not take it personally. There is absolutely no use for "hey if it feels good do it, man" posts in technique threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Mike - love it. Can I use that in a technique article? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 that ended with getting on a burner 188, a FP 185 then I was totally broke of it with a Coiler 190 none of those would put up with that type of input but the Coiler was so grippy that even though it was really friendly and easy to ride I could not control it like that I also had to widen my stance allot too, that contributes to you loosing that habit knees apart is sooooo much more powerful plus I like it when my knee hits the snow....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUD Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 Well, he could have been more diplomatic, That was my only point....... I guess. "On the hill" that would have not gone over well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted November 30, 2006 Report Share Posted November 30, 2006 When I try to do that, on heel side, I often loose grip on the tail. I normaly need to drive my rear knee into the turn... How do you hold it together with driving only the front knee? Boris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted December 1, 2006 Report Share Posted December 1, 2006 When I try to do that, on heel side, I often loose grip on the tail. I normaly need to drive my rear knee into the turn... How do you hold it together with driving only the front knee? Boris I'm not sure to be honest! I am guessing that my mostly upright upper body is helping but again I defer to the experts. BTW When I want to really tighten the turn I tend to drive the front knee first then add the back knee later... but only on smooth snow. The choppier it is the more I tend to drive heelsides with mostly front knee, toesides with mostly back knee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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