Jack M

Accomplished softbooter, never been on hardboots. My F2 Speedster World Cup 163, UPZ RC10, Bomber TD3 standard. Second run: (it's a crummy video - turn sound down to get rid of wind noise) http://alpinesnowboarder.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/IMG_0974-1280.mp4 Rider: Freddy McCarthy

Sorry, I skimmed over the part where you said you had already measured. As you've noted UPZ uses one shell to cover sizes from 23 to 25.5. If the liner that comes in them doesn't work for you, you can replace with Intuition (new name for Thermoflex). This is pretty common. If you do that it might be beneficial to go with a size 25 Intuition medium or high volume wrap liner as that will take up more of the space in the shell between your size 24.5 foot and size 25.5 shell. There's nothing wrong with RC10s in good shape. There were two versions of the RC10. The later version had the swing-away tongue which made entry and exit easier. The earlier RC10 tongue did not swing away, but the performance while riding was the same.

Your mondopoint size is simply the length of your foot in centimeters to the nearest half. You can measure this at home.

My understanding of the current boot fitting landscape is this: Average volume ankle/instep or less = UPZ or Mountain Slope High volume ankle/instep = Deeluxe Track 700. Avg/low volume feet will likely suffer heel lift inside the boot. Narrow feet = Deeluxe Track 425 Pro (stiff) or 325 (softer). I believe Mountain Slope and Track 700 have the widest forefoot. All can be stretched by a shop. Mountain Slope is not compatible with the Intec step-in system. MS are favored by racers, but they offer a "standard" 100-flex version which is more forgiving. There are different flavors of UPZ boots that offer different stiffness. They have had different names over the years. Research before buying. The standard forward lean selector on Deeluxe boots needs to be discarded immediately and replaced with an aftermarket spring system like Bomber BTS. The standard unit simply locks the ankle joint at the selected angle of forward lean, and then it cannot hinge. Any forward flex then comes from deforming the boot plastic. Unless you ride it in walk mode, then the ankle hinges freely and all forward stiffness comes from the tongue. Bad design, but quickly corrected with a spring system ($$$). UPZ and Mountain Slope come with adjustable spring systems. UPZ, Deeluxe, and Mountain Slope offer different stiffness tongues, but generally you only go there if you need more stiffness than the spring system can give you. UPZ liners typically get replaced by aftermarket Intuition moldable liners. Deeluxe boots come with Intuition moldable liners. Mountain Slopes come with their own moldable liners, which are good. I have yet to read a positive review of Deeluxe Ground Controls. To my eye they look like boots for people who don't want to ride hardboots, but want the convenience of a single toe clip or step-ins. For real carving, I think they look like a disaster, but I haven't tried them.

Welcome home! Yes there are a few of us at Sugarloaf and also some racers at CVA. You "can" use ski boots in plate bindings like Bomber and F2, but it's not ideal. If you're determined to do that and your ski boots are stiff, you might enjoy F2 bindings more as they are more flexible. Bombers are more durable and stiffer. Some people like me enjoy the extra response of Bombers. 28.5 isn't small and ski boots will force you into higher binding angles than you could use with snowboard hardboots. A few years ago I got some ski boots thinking I would like to get back into skiing - snowboarding in the morning and skiing in the afternoon. I got some 130 flex Solomons and could barely even skid down the mountain with them on my snowboard, nevermind carve, lol. That was a short-lived experiment. Check out our classifieds here, boards and boots and bindings have certainly come a long way in your time off. It would be worthwhile to try your old Alp 171 when conditions are good, but you can do better with a modern board with metal (Titanal) laminates. Any questions for the tribe, fire away.

Based on my Proto 163 and recent F2 World Cup results, I would say these boards are right up there with the best on earth. I'd buy this myself if I didn't already have a good GS board.

Moved to For Sale as these were made in 2007 or 2008.

With all due respect, there is a massive copycat mentality in racing. F2 boards are probably just as good as Kessler or SG or Oxess, but you don't see them much at all in the men's circuit. Why? Frankly I think a lot of racers have simply grown up on F2 bindings, and have heard that "Bombers are too stiff", so they never tried them and have developed their technique around F2 bindings. This was part of my interest with USSRT member Nate True. I caught wind that his F2 bindings broke (shocker!) and that he was in the market for new bindings. I offered to send him a new pair of Bombers for the price of a new pair of F2s. He agreed and was blown away by the superior performance. I just checked in with him again and he is still loving his Bombers. @TVR's son is a Bomber racer now at Steamboat, I have very high hopes for him. Frankly they were a bit of a desperation move to try to attract F2 binding racers to the brand. And hey, it's another option that you may or may not prefer. I tried them and had a similar impression as F2s.

I doubt it. I think much of the flex comes from the thin baseplate and all the plastic parts.

I'm talking about an Allflex GS longitudinal cut "soft" plate - solid top, no springs, no H cut outs. I love it on my GS board. But on my SL and 168 it just didn't let the board bend enough. YMMV The Allflex Spring Plate worked fabulously on my SL, it's just very heavy.

It's not just the durability, I think the performance is superior. Every time I try F2s I simply cannot deal with all that lateral flex. To see if it was just me, last year I convinced former USSRT member Nate True to try Bombers and he was blown away by the responsiveness.

@Shred Gruumer, If you have UPM inserts, get the Donek AF or Apex X-plate. AF has better edge hold on ice, Apex is lower and sexier. If you have Allflex inserts, I think the Allflex spring plate is more than you want to spend and more weight than you want to deal with. I also tried my Allflex non-spring plate on my K168 and F2 Proto 163 and personally I hated it. Just did not let the board carve, at least not with me on it. You could look for a used Apex X-plate with Allflex mounts... I have one I will sell... If you only have 4x4 inserts, or don't want to spend much, Vist Snowplate 17 is the best bang for the buck at 295 Euros. Apex X-plate is also a lighter/lower option with 4x4 mounts. @Termin8tor is selling one. I wouldn't bother with the Donek AF since the 4x4 version just uses an adapter that adds height and weight.

Because World Cup and high level racing is the primary market for plates by a large margin, and nobody and I mean nobody is using UPM on the World Cup. Nor is anyone who takes their racing seriously. Allflex plates work far better for racing than any UPM plate. Of all the plates I've tried I would say the Donek AF and Allflex Spring Plate had the most impressive edge hold on ice on tight turning boards. However the Allflex is heavy and a lot of work, non-athletes need not apply. The AF is rather tall. The Apex was the most "well rounded", being lowest, lightest, sexiest, and pretty effective. But I can see why nobody races on them after trying Allflex. Frankly I think for my freecarving purposes, I've come to the conclusion that plates are not worth the weight and height, and that you can replace them with better technique. They made me realize I was twisting the board with my feet, and was too much in the back seat on toeside - not weighting my front foot toes enough in the first part of the carve. If you are getting a custom board made, you could request more torsional reinforcement between the feet to get some of the benefits of a plate. That really worked well for me on my Winterstick. Edit - all that said, I would like to try a Donek AF again on something like a Kessler 168, as the brief time I spent with one was pretty darn eye-popping.

Wait, seriously? Bomber? https://www.bomberonline.com/

Hi, cool board. Since this is your first post, please post pictures of your actual board for sale, thanks.

I'm in quarrantine.

Irony. Not just the opposite of wrinkly.

.951 WC are pretty stiff for your first hardboots. Consider the standard 100 flex?

No

Picked up this classic this spring… always loved them. The boy is using it for now. 1997. It blows my mind that a car that was new the year after I graduated college is now a classic.

Working for me on my iPhone and work PC. Try again? If it's still not working for you I'll boot up my iMac and try. Edit - seems to be related to whether or not the thread has pictures, do you experience the same? i.e., when I click the datetime under the last poster's name in the car nuts thread, I get taken to a recent post but not the *last* post. On iPhone but not PC. Maybe clear your cache/cookies?

I asked Mark. His reply: "The production MFR’s were actually made at Authier. I had most of my actual race MFR’s made at Prior. The Burners were made in the Elan factory. My custom burner race boards were made there at Elan as well. Early Predecessor to SG’s. (constructionally speaking)"

Looking at Kessler for example, their stock alpine shapes haven't changed for several years because race courses haven't changed. I do wish they would add a 180-ish freecarver to their stock lineup like my latest custom 180/21/15m. My favorite board ever. The three custom Kesslers I've had have been the finest snowboards I've ever tried. They are even better than their stock boards which are already incredible. Hansjuerg has some magic going on over there. I've never tried an Oxess or Virus but I'd say Kessler has perfected the state of the art as far as I can tell. SG, Oxess, F2 are obviously right there too as evidenced in World Cup. I think to go beyond what they're doing would require some novel invention not yet conceived. Maybe the exotic materials in high end Viruses create a better board, I don't know, but they're dearly expensive and not seen much if at all on the World Cup.

Sims Mark Fawcett Race pro model. '90s.

It's important to note that many of the tech articles in the archives were written like 25 years ago. They were targeted towards new carvers either coming from softboots or from a "PJ/Kelly" style with narrow stance, knees jammed together, waving arms. The ultimate goal is for the body to remain aligned with the binding angles throughout each turn. Nevin does this beautifully. He's not counter-rotating. However if you tell newbies and people coming from softboots to do that, they will typically sit into their heelsides and bend over on toeside, and rotate their upper body towards their toeside edge. Telling them to face the nose of the board is a way to break that habit. Often you need to tell people to aim past the target in order to hit the target.