zyzgerry Posted February 26, 2023 Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 I'm curious in knowing how much difference does a dedicated carving board make in terms of making carving turns. I currently ride a Korua Shapes Dart 160cm - bought it because 1) it looks great, 2) hearing good things about its carving ability (and seeing how Nicholas Wolken ride it). The board has a effective edge of 123cm, side cut 8.6m, waist 278mm. I wear a size 9.5 Burton Ion step-on (measured ~30cm long) and usually ride with angles at +30/+21. I was able to carve relatively well on the Dart, though still learning how to get real low on the heel-side. I want to be able to easily touch the snow on heel side, but haven't yet been able to reliably do that - usually fall when I try to get low or just touch a tiny bit. After browsing through web and videos, see a lot of good stuff around people riding these dedicated carving boards, such as Donek Flux, I started wondering whether I should invest in a board like that (long effective edge ~140cm, sidecut ~10m) or not. Would riding a board like that will significantly enhance my carving capability or should I simply work on my skills on Dart first? Anyone had similar experiences before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted February 26, 2023 Report Share Posted February 26, 2023 Hard to say. there are ppl whom can carve on lunch trey... Dedicated softboot carving board is optimized for that single purpose. If you are hitting the limit of your current setup/board then a new carving deck should help. It might also help you progress faster by developing better technique/habit. For me: modern equipment now a day are so good that likely i am the limiting factor. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 Modern carving boards help but a descent board that is wide enough to avoid boot drag and has enough sidecut might be good enough. I love my Donek Flux. It carves very well but is great in almost any condition. My view is that the biggest variables are: 1) Conditions, 2) Ability, 3) Equipment. In Hero conditions, almost anyone can carve well. If one has great ability, they can carve well in most any condition and with most any board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextcarve Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) The better of a snowboarder you are, the better you can benefit from good, dedicated equipment to expand your limits. Therefore it depends on the balance between your riding skills and the benefits of a dedicated carving snowboard. Both will grow, your skills and your need for better equipment, if that's what you want. Edited February 27, 2023 by nextcarve 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 On 2/26/2023 at 8:27 AM, zyzgerry said: how much difference does a dedicated carving board make in terms of making carving turns Huge difference. Get something with titanal from Prior or Winterstick, maybe 2cm wider at the waist than your mondo point boot size to start, you'll know when you're ready for something wider. 10m scr will yield a good intermediate turn shape. +12/+27 is plenty steep for a good carving stance, go steeper only if you're booting out. Get risers from Palmer or JJA for more leverage and clearance. Also stiffen your boots up and get stiffer bindings... Now you're carving! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 31 minutes ago, crackaddict said: Also stiffen your boots up... Whatcha' doin' to stiffen up your Driver Xs? Ski boot tongue? Just curious, thanks. PS- Appreciate the vids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted February 27, 2023 Report Share Posted February 27, 2023 https://youtu.be/snMI_AgJ-X0 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Board should be just fine, especially if you are not expecting to carve the steeps. I'd get rid of the step-ons. They are not very supportive (from watching few high level riders testing them) and have unreasonably thick heel cups, like all Burtons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnasmo Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 Will a dedicated dedicated carving board make a difference in terms of making carving turns? Yes. What is a dedicated carving board? Need I remind everyone that this is an alpine snowboarding forum? Let's just say there's an easy way and hard way to approach carving. The physics and physiology of carving favor steeper binding angles. Steeper binding angles favor narrower boards. You can see where this is going... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyzgerry Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 11 hours ago, nextcarve said: The better of a snowboarder you are, the better you can benefit from good, dedicated equipment to expand your limits. Haha thanks! I think that's what I needed to hear. Gotta level up my skills before pouring money into great gears probably 9 hours ago, crackaddict said: Huge difference. Get something with titanal from Prior or Winterstick, maybe 2cm wider at the waist than your mondo point boot size to start, you'll know when you're ready for something wider. 10m scr will yield a good intermediate turn shape. +12/+27 is plenty steep for a good carving stance, go steeper only if you're booting out. Get risers from Palmer or JJA for more leverage and clearance. Also stiffen your boots up and get stiffer bindings... Now you're carving! Thanks man! The moment you mention the angles and saw you're at revelstoke I knew that I've seen your videos. Sick turns! About the angles, do steeper angles help with heel side turns? I was under the impression that bigger angles allow the body to turn better, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyzgerry Posted February 28, 2023 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 55 minutes ago, BlueB said: I'd get rid of the step-ons. Thanks for the suggestions! Sadly I just bought these step-on boots which cost me a fortune, so I'ma have to stick to them for a while. I did notice the heel cups stick out a little too much though, but luckily I'm not that good so not getting drags yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackaddict Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, zyzgerry said: do steeper angles help with heel side turns? I need 12 degrees minimum in the back foot to get consistently smooth heelside turns. At 9 degrees I get some occasional chatter. Above 12 is all good too, but less playful feeling. In part it's the comfortable all mountain stance that keeps me riding soft boots. I'll go up to 21/36 if I'm booting out at lower angles (on boards that are very stiff or too narrow for the stiffness and scr). My attitude is to keep my angles at the minimum required for perfect carved turns. Steeper angles are more awkward. I don't know why some Asian riders are running upwards of 30/45, it doesn't work for me in soft boots, it's just not comfortable. May as well go to 55/60 and ride hard boots! For my body, 15 degrees of splay works well in soft boots. I recommend you try 15/30 instead of 21/30 but every body is different so experiment a bit. Experiment a lot, actually; I've been carving full time every winter since 2006/7 and I still make stance adjustments! Latest discovery: less forward lean equals less boot out... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) You absolutely need a better board to progress. I think those Korua boards barely go up to 10m; they can get away with it because they are using a very relaxed surf style. You want to start playing around with 10+m sidecuts, maybe 12+. And start turning it tighter than someone on a Korua. It'll be really fun. Edited February 28, 2023 by Odd Job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 I’m sorry, I just disagree with that specific advice on sidecut in this context. Someone who is learning how to carve should go to 10-12m sidecuts? There’s nothing wrong with 8.6m sidecut, it can carve perfectly well as long as there’s no bootout. Larger sidecut boards need more speed and angulation—that’s something a new carver can work up to. But there is absolutely no need for even a dedicated softboot carving board to have a 12m sidecut. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 50 minutes ago, ShortcutToMoncton said: There’s nothing wrong with 8.6m sidecut, it can carve perfectly well as long as there’s no bootout. But there is absolutely no need for even a dedicated softboot carving board to have a 12m sidecut. Two hot takes in one response... kudos. <9m sidecut is optimal for low inclination "carving". No need? There's some really great softboot carvers out there riding 12m+ that could be riding anything they want. Also, why the softboot modifier? Is there something in the boots/bindings that changes the SCR? Tilting the board opens up how small a large sidecut can ride. TILT IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhamann Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 @zyzgerry some good advise here and some comical. i see you're from jersey so if you're riding a hardpack surface in the northeast the majority of the time, side cut and waist width are imperative to carving at a high level. kind of obvious, but where do you start? well, you've already started. you're carving on a dart, but looking for more. begin adding to your quiver. this takes time. finding or waiting for the right board to pop up, etc. someone who rides fairly open terrain with 300"+ annual snowfall will probably have different preferences than someone who rides 15m wide trails with man made half+ the season. reality is that most northeast resorts boast about snowmaking capability more than annual snowfall. apples/oranges. generalizations are worth considering and welcomed knowledge, but as it's said above test test test and try different things that work best for the conditions you may encounter. of course a dedicated carving board is going to help you carve and improve your abilities, but not immediately. there is a learning curve. stepping into hardboots will point out your mistakes a lot faster, but stepping up from a rocker style shovel nose board with less ee to a full camber carve focused softbooter will also point out mistakes. eh, not mistakes but habits that may have developed over time from riding a cheater board. some of those habits may never go away. a lot of boards on the market seem to be designed to almost ride themselves. if you're reading this, you're probably looking to improve and in search of a challenge. i see it like this.. carve focused boards are not 'easy' riders and the rider is the driver with little help from the board (as learning goes)... until you tame it. like a wild horse. then progress within it's capabilities. this progression will improve your carving. build a quiver if you're looking to improve from where you're currently at and might be bored with the limits of the current boards you have. flavor of the day if you will. for instance, my softy boards vary from an "8/10" stiffness with an 8m sidecut to a "12+/10" stiffness with a 12m sidecut. mondo size 30 or size 12 boot. 27.4-28cm waist. a couple others to fill the void. risers on all boards that help with bootout and keep toes/heels ontop of the edge of the board with my riding angles (+36/+9 or 12) but not over. one could add maybe one or two cm to this if they don't use a riser plate, but riding a little narrower helps with quicker edge to edge, control, feel, bite, etc... "quick" with a 28 waist, not a 16. i find that some taper also helps with quicker edge to edge. ankles and softboots flex so the board will never be 90 degrees, railing an edge, digging into the snow to permit needing a board waist wider than your foot size imo. if the board is at 90 degrees, dragging forearms get involved. unnecessary strain on ankles, legs, arm, elbow, jacket and back. different strokes for different folks. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 11 hours ago, zyzgerry said: Thanks for the suggestions! Sadly I just bought these step-on boots which cost me a fortune, so I'ma have to stick to them for a while. I did notice the heel cups stick out a little too much though, but luckily I'm not that good so not getting drags yet Keep the boots, they should be nice and stiff. Ditch the bindings. It's not only the heel cup, they really don't offer great support AND they sit very poorly on the board. Few days ago, I was watching someone not much bigger than you being able to lift the baseplate of the board, just statically demonstrating toe side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted February 28, 2023 Report Share Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, lonbordin said: Two hot takes in one response... kudos. <9m sidecut is optimal for low inclination "carving". No need? There's some really great softboot carvers out there riding 12m+ that could be riding anything they want. Also, why the softboot modifier? Is there something in the boots/bindings that changes the SCR? Tilting the board opens up how small a large sidecut can ride. TILT IT! Super confusing to me…I don’t see this as a hot take at all. I said need—as in, no one needs 10-12m sidecuts in order to carve, it’s just super beneficial for certain styles and terrains. But a beginner carver doesn’t “need” 10-12m to get better at carving. They need to learn how to carve first, and 8.6m on a wide Korua board is perfectly fine for someone learning. Any one of us could likely hop on that board and make nice, short, deep carves, but for the OP who cannot, moving him to a 10-12m sidecut on a stiffer dedicated carving board isn’t going to magically make him a better carver! To me, a true hot take is telling a beginner who is struggling to carve that they should just get a 10-12m sidecut and “tilt it”. Is that really helpful?? Edited February 28, 2023 by ShortcutToMoncton 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyzgerry Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 12 hours ago, dhamann said: stepping up from a rocker style shovel nose board with less ee to a full camber carve focused softbooter will also point out mistakes. eh, not mistakes but habits that may have developed over time from riding a cheater board Thanks buddy for the detailed feedback! I definitely have some bad habits still haunting me, especially in not so nice conditions. This winter is especially bad in east coast, so I’ve travelled to Colorado a few times to practice, more trips in the planing! I think ima continue learning on the Korua for this season and see if I can reach its limits, and once I do I’ll order or donek or something to try to step up the game :D 9 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said: To me, a true hot take is telling a beginner who is struggling to carve that they should just get a 10-12m sidecut and “tilt it”. Is that really helpful?? Very helpful man! I very much understand the learning curve ahead of me, so ima take some baby steps till I can ride and enjoy the big sidecut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyzgerry Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 22 hours ago, crackaddict said: My attitude is to keep my angles at the minimum required for perfect carved turns. Yep I hear you! I even tried 36/27 on my board before - even though on softer snow it felt ok carving, but I do feel my control of the board is limited to some extent, not to mention how tough it is on firmer/icy conditions (when in east coast). I will give the lower angles a try and hopefully can get adjusted quickly to make those turns and continue progressing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Job Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) If you are riding a small sidecut really well, you will get max edge angle for such a small moment in time; someone learning is going to want to draw it out. As for drawing out the turn; try doing prolonged laydowns on an SL board. You will do weird stuff to pull it off. Anyone learning is going to want to do a laydown and draw it out for longer than 0.2 seconds. Big enough to have time to work on stuff in a turn. But not too big to kill yourself or just fear everything for years. FYI: I learned on a 12m Prior 175 with absolutely zero background in any athletics or fitness. In western NY. Before YouTube and access to so much information. I think the OP will be just fine on a 10-12m softboot board (will turn like a hardboot board 2-3m bigger). Edited March 1, 2023 by Odd Job 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmorita Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 It's not the chariot, it's the horses. Having said that, I tried many boards to avoid the expnese of a Flux or Incline. All are good, but none better for me and where I ride. Not seeing others on VT powder carving trenches on their Libs and Burtons either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortcutToMoncton Posted March 1, 2023 Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 I just wanted to reiterate that this person is specifically asking about carving on a softboot board. I understand (and agree) that a hardboot alpine setup would likely be helpful for him to practice on. But that is talking about spoons when he’s just asking about the knife in his hand. @zyzgerry the answer is research, more practice, and also asking when anyone on here is riding at your local mountain. There are tons of east-coast riders on here. See if you can meet up with someone for an hour or so and get some pointers. Carving is a very technical sport, having the right body positioning is important, and it’s often really hard to tell if you’re doing something wrong. You should definitely watch tons of YouTube videos and also check out James’ upcoming YouTube video on softboot carving tips. But getting some real-time advice is the best medicine, and would help you progress faster to a stage where you’re outgrowing that Dart and thinking about something stiffer with a longer effective edge. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyzgerry Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Odd Job said: If you are riding a small sidecut really well, you will get max edge angle for such a small moment in time Yeah I noticed how short the time is when I’m trying to feel the edge and my muscles. I’m wondering that maybe what I can do now is to fully close every turn and start each next turn from negative angle, maybe doing this will prolong the time I have to adjust in each turn? Is that valid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyzgerry Posted March 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2023 3 hours ago, pmorita said: All are good, but none better for me and where I ride. So what board do you end up liking? For my next board, I had set my eyes on donek flux, but its price is steep ($890) to me, given that all-mtn boards at $600 are already considered “premium”. Peeps also mentioned Jasey-Jay and other few brands, but is it safe to guess they will probably also cost north of $800 for a good carving board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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