Soft Board Bindings

[scottishsurfer]

Little update on the Karakoram Quiver Connector I got an email from them yesterday it seems I do have an eariler variant of the connector with longer metal hooks. I should be getting the revised ones as a replacement in the near future but i have the offer of the older metal design if i have further issues

[philw]

Well of course I think people should use whatever they like, but I've just been riding with an old mate who is a reasonable part of snowboarding history and he's hugely in favour of the Burton Step On stuff. To hear him talk about them it sounds like they're a significant step towards the control and power of hard bindings. I've no idea, but if you're into soft gear then it may be worth looking at those.

[John Gilmour]

When it comes to selecting a soft bindingThe things that matter to me most:

1. Traditional toe straps as opposed to toe cap.

2. Fantastic wide distribution  ankle strap with really good pressure distribution, removing pressure from the hinge point area of the ankle.

3. Hibaks  that both cup the shaft of my leg, and track the motion of my leg forward and back during the turn without slipping off the highbak. In my humble opinion, the boots now offer enough Forward lean support that three straps are a hindrance to ankle flex  as opposed to helpful. 
 

4. SLEEK heelside clearance . it’s extremely important for any design that nothing really should protrude much beyond the end of the heel and  he’ll backstay of the boot And that the forward lean adjustment is also slim.. As close as you can get the Highbak assembly  and heel cup band to the heel the better. Anything that sticks off of that assembly, any extra ridge, any protrusion for high back adjustment lean, is a negative. 

And anything that is in that area will cause you to “binding out” when you really increase your heelside angle . Bindings that are in the way in this regard will prevent you from doing any quality euro carving on your heelside and result in ABRUPT AND NEARLY UNRECOVERABLE HEEL EDGE SLIP. ie  deadly

Repeat ...super ****ing dangerous .

Unfortunately this excludes  a great number of bindings- like every single Burton binding. Even the step-on binding with Ions... sadly.  

5. I also avoid  microdisks, because they concentrate too much force into too small a place- AND they don’t allow for “Gilmour Bias”.

6. Generally I do not recommend snowboard bindings that are too stiff,  You should be able to exert some minor flex domination over your binding. But the binding should not dominate you. And of course a bonding shouldn’t be so floppy either RELATIVE TO YOUR BOOT STIFFNESS.

Err..so the soft bindings that I like for high edge angle heelside are the Union Force , and the Union Forged Carbon .

The union binding forged carbon, well they’re nice in terms of response on the right board with the right boots that are stiff enough,  but the binding itself doesn’t flex very much, so a tremendous amount of force gets transmitted to the disc, which is not carbon fiber - which is actually a blessing because you wouldn’t want that to shatter.  Over the course of a few seasons – I have broken the plastic disc, which is more prone to breaking in very cold weather. However the disk did not shatter and eject me, Instead it cracked and made a clicking noise, with two of the screws still intact. The disks are relatively inexpensive at five dollars apiece. Certainly cheap enough to change out each season.

I have cracked the highbaks  on the early forged carbon’s, but the new ones seem to be better made. A little shoe goo on the metal fitting pieces or nylon washers , would go along way to making these last forever because the “ sacrificial “ nylon witll deform and wear faster than the carbon fiber.

The 32 binary Boa for me at least is an excellent mate for the Union forged carbons . I have a 9.5 foot , have Custom molded super feet cork insoles , ride 45/27 on a 156 cm Jones Hovercraft . I ride the inner mounting holes with near maximum “Gilmour bias”.  Front footplate all the way back rear footplate in middle setting , more forward lean in rear highback than front to allow for traditional carving and EC style heelsides so  I can change the SCR at will at speed. I also use medium Booster straps which completely eliminated shin bang. Jones 156 Hovercraft.
 

That set up works great for tight trees in powder- open powder field carving and hard groom . Works shitty in piles of corn snow and bumpy end of day conditions. Still manageable, but not really fun. Catchy… But then there’s lunch and Early après , hot tubs - for 3pm onward anyway.

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by John Gilmour

[scottishsurfer]

26 minutes ago, John Gilmour said:

The union binding forged carbon, well they’re nice in terms of response on the right board with the right boots that are stiff enough, catchy but the binding itself doesn’t flex very much, so a tremendous amount of force gets transmitted to the disc, which is not carbon fiber dash which is actually a blessing because you wouldn’t want that the shatter.  Over the course of a few seasons – I have broken the plastic disc, which is more prone to breaking in very cold weather. However the disk did not shatter and eject me, Instead it cracked and made a clicking noise, with two of the screws still intact. The disks are relatively inexpensive at five dollars apiece. Certainly cheap enough to change out each season.

John if your forged carbon are full size disk the older burton non reflex disks are a perfect fit and are stronger than the union ones. I was finding the standard union disks were only last me a few days before id rip them apart.
 

13 hours ago, philw said:

Well of course I think people should use whatever they like, but I've just been riding with an old mate who is a reasonable part of snowboarding history and he's hugely in favour of the Burton Step On stuff. To hear him talk about them it sounds like they're a significant step towards the control and power of hard bindings. I've no idea, but if you're into soft gear then it may be worth looking at those.

The boots are very very soft laterally atleast to me. It seemed like the foot bed of the bed was quite secure to the binding but there was nothing other than the somewhat flimsy boot to offer support to you ankle. Part of me does wonder if they did this to reduce the possible twisting/lateral forces that could be applied to the binding so to reduce the force on the retention mechanisim hence why there is no Driver X step-on

[SnowFerret]

Well, another baseplate broke on my Cartels.  I think I’m going to start looking into some beefier bindings in the near future, probably something with metal. The Rome Targas look interesting and seem to be recommended.  Has anyone tried the Rome Katanas?

[scottishsurfer]

not tried katana's but have ridden targas there really good and if your looking for stiff set up there one of the best just a tad heavy

[John Gilmour]

Probably there is something you could modify in your riding style if you are having so many unintentional base plate failures . It’s one thing to break gear - but it’s another thing to have that force transfer to your frame.

 

I mean I break stuff to test gear through intentional hard abuse before manufacturers  release a product - (like I hammered the Catek protypes  at Brighton UTAH they were strong enough, I was the initial tester unbeknownst to me at the time) and later bent that Catek base plate - but that was really trying to stuff the nose....And I “potato chipped “An aluminum base plate disc after a crash where I hammered it through the 6 layers of carbon on a favorite Madd 170 Prototype board .

Or I busted 3 Madd Snowboards in a single run trying to delam then to prove that we needed a different tyoe of rubber nose core instead of closed cell foam. But that’s no way to ride all the time as you body bears at least 25% of that stress force . 

but of course some stuff is just flimsy - like Emory  bails , snow pro bails ,  and junky bindings .

I would Like to see a nylon  cord reinforced injected plastic base plate since though would likely never crack. When it comes to base plates better to be tough and a little more for you than To be tough and shatter .

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by John Gilmour

[SnowFerret]

On 1/3/2020 at 2:53 PM, John Gilmour said:

Probably there is something you could modify in your riding style if you are having so many unintentional base plate failures . It’s one thing to break gear - but it’s another thing to have that force transfer to your frame.

I’m not sure but I’ll keep it in mind. I’ve had the bindings for about 7 seasons and haven’t really changed my riding style that much in that time. I tend to have a good amount of mechanical sympathy for things too. 

[scottishsurfer]

Got the revised version of the karakoram quiver connectors yesterday, there noticeably beefier around the area that had previously failed

[John Gilmour]

On 1/8/2020 at 6:54 AM, SnowFerret said:

I’m not sure but I’ll keep it in mind. I’ve had the bindings for about 7 seasons and haven’t really changed my riding style that much in that time. I tend to have a good amount of mechanical sympathy for things too. 

7 seasons , that’s really

probably the issue . The plastic has toughness lifespan and U V LIGHT  doesn’t help. The plastic gets brittle with age

[Mac81]

On 12/30/2019 at 6:45 PM, John Gilmour said:

When it comes to selecting a soft bindingThe things that matter to me most

John, these are great tips! 

Now I am learning to do body carving on softboots -15°+15° duck stance. 

This is not easy job, especially here in Europe, Poland I never ever seen anyone doing it. So noone to ask for advice...

This is me trying: 

 

I was thinking which bindings would help me doing the job. 

I am considering: 

- Rome Black Series ,

- Rome Targa 

- Flux XV 

I am leanimg toward Rome Black Series because of weight , responsivness and adjustabiility.

But I am still not sure...

Maybe somthing else ?

Any help? 

[svr]

28 minutes ago, Mac81 said:

John, these are great tips! 

Now I am learning to do body carving on softboots -15°+15° duck stance. 

This is not easy job, especially here in Europe, Poland I never ever seen anyone doing it. So noone to ask for advice...

This is me trying: 

 

I was thinking which bindings would help me doing the job. 

I am considering: 

- Rome Black Series ,

- Rome Targa 

- Flux XV 

I am leanimg toward Rome Black Series because of weight , responsivness and adjustabiility.

But I am still not sure...

Maybe somthing else ?

Any help? 

@Mac81 the Flux XVs are super light and super responsive, but have zero cushioning and can be a bit harsh on the legs.

i like them, but I like the Now O-drives even more as the addition of slight dampening and a little bit of cushioning goes a long way towards making my riding more fun for the whole day.

cheers,

sandy

[Mac81]

10 hours ago, svr said:

@Mac81 the Flux XVs are super light and super responsive, but have zero cushioning and can be a bit harsh on the legs.

i like them, but I like the Now O-drives even more as the addition of slight dampening and a little bit of cushioning goes a long way towards making my riding more fun for the whole day.

cheers,

sandy

Now O Drives are not available in my country

And Rome ? 

Black Series or Targa? 

Targa is stiffer from what I read and Black Series lighter.

For extreme carving which would be better ? 

[Lifeform]

2 hours ago, Mac81 said:

Now O Drives are not available in my country

And Rome ? 

Black Series or Targa? 

Targa is stiffer from what I read and Black Series lighter.

For extreme carving which would be better ? 

 

One that fits your boots better, biggest drawback on SB gear is connection between boot and binding

Plastic one will last couple years, aluminium for life 

Look at F2 Eliminator carve fastec

its great system, and they dont have heelcup, great for EC 

 

[scottishsurfer]

I really liked the Rome targa bindings for hard riding super responsive and you can teak them alot to get the perfect set up, personally id choose them over the black series due to the blacks use of mini disk and the chassis not being as stiff.

Flux XF/XV seem to be the binding of choice in asia for carving never ridden them personally though

[Mac81]

19 hours ago, Lifeform said:

One that fits your boots better, biggest drawback on SB gear is connection between boot and binding

Plastic one will last couple years, aluminium for life 

Look at F2 Eliminator carve fastec

its great system, and they dont have heelcup, great for EC 

 

 

 

Hmm... I am not sure. I read that proper adjustment od highback rotation is important for heelside extreme carving l. And those F2 have no highback rotation...

 

19 hours ago, scottishsurfer said:

I really liked the Rome targa bindings for hard riding super responsive and you can teak them alot to get the perfect set up, personally id choose them over the black series due to the blacks use of mini disk and the chassis not being as stiff.

Flux XF/XV seem to be the binding of choice in asia for carving never ridden them personally though

Are you sure they have mini discs? I called shop and they told me that both Targa , Katana and Black Series have regular discs.

I though that as Black Series is 60% more expensive they are just killer binding that use better materials and have better responsivness. 

Hmm... My Burton Cartel have 12 years.  Now I am ready to buy anything that will boost my duck stance body carving . Money is not an issue. 

(P.s. I also still do some buttering )

[scottishsurfer]

the 90% sure the katana disks are smaller than the targa i used to be listed in the spec on there site but not now it appears

[Lifeform]

11 hours ago, Mac81 said:

 

 

Hmm... I am not sure. I read that proper adjustment od highback rotation is important for heelside extreme carving l. And those F2 have no highback rotation...

 

Are you sure they have mini discs? I called shop and they told me that both Targa , Katana and Black Series have regular discs.

I though that as Black Series is 60% more expensive they are just killer binding that use better materials and have better responsivness. 

Hmm... My Burton Cartel have 12 years.  Now I am ready to buy anything that will boost my duck stance body carving . Money is not an issue. 

(P.s. I also still do some buttering )

Why would you rotate highback if you ride duckstance, my girlfriend rides these bindings +30 + 24 and there is no need to rotate highback

Here is best and cheapest solution :

Put 3rd strap on bindings 

[Mac81]

On 1/19/2020 at 9:57 PM, Lifeform said:

Why would you rotate highback if you ride duckstance, my girlfriend rides these bindings +30 + 24 and there is no need to rotate highback

Here is best and cheapest solution :

Put 3rd strap on bindings 

It will sound maybe silly, but I am not really sure why

Mostly because I read that this is important and gives better weight distribution on heelside edge. 

I also read that pads with canting also help. 

I also read that pivot "suspension" at Now Bindings also help.

I can not check any of those , if this is marketing shit or pure truth - in Poland you can not rent top bindings and test them. 

I ride for 20years, I had many boards, and each of them behaved completely different. But all bindings gave pretty simillar effect.

So now I wanted to buy binding that will give me as much added value as possible. 

I know that I can make toeside Exteme carv on any binding for 50$. 

But on heelside I have some problems. 

And If : 

- highback rotation at Rome

- Skate pivot suspension at Now

- arc form highback with spring at PHK 

Or carbon fiber, nylon, kevlar, steel, titanium or space dust offered by anyone else can give me 5 or 10% , I want to take it.

I am interested in best soft boot binding that helps at extreme carving on heelside. 

 

P.S. does a 3rd strap gives you a lot on heelside ?

Wonder why no manufacturer has it as an option... 

 

[Kijima]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:24 AM, Mac81 said:

It will sound maybe silly, but I am not really sure why

Mostly because I read that this is important and gives better weight distribution on heelside edge. 

I also read that pads with canting also help. 

I also read that pivot "suspension" at Now Bindings also help.

I can not check any of those , if this is marketing shit or pure truth - in Poland you can not rent top bindings and test them. 

I ride for 20years, I had many boards, and each of them behaved completely different. But all bindings gave pretty simillar effect.

So now I wanted to buy binding that will give me as much added value as possible. 

I know that I can make toeside Exteme carv on any binding for 50$. 

But on heelside I have some problems. 

And If : 

- highback rotation at Rome

- Skate pivot suspension at Now

- arc form highback with spring at PHK 

Or carbon fiber, nylon, kevlar, steel, titanium or space dust offered by anyone else can give me 5 or 10% , I want to take it.

I am interested in best soft boot binding that helps at extreme carving on heelside. 

 

P.S. does a 3rd strap gives you a lot on heelside ?

Wonder why no manufacturer has it as an option... 

 

 

On a heel side carve your biggest problem is the heel cup/forward lean adjuster hitting the snow. 

Flow bindings and SP fastec bindings do not have this problem so they are the best for heel side. 

Flows have an aluminium disc and base plate.

Check my posts for pics of my modifed flows

[kitejumping]

I ran now overdrives for two seasons, they are good for aggressive carving but would dig into the outside of my ankle when doing butters and nose / tail rolls.  Switched to the now drives JJ edition and have been happy with those for all riding. Also if you run overdrives make sure to occasionally check the heelcup connection areas for cracks.

[jburrill]

 NOW bindings. 
O drives and Recons

Havent found a better binding for soft boot carving. Everything else I’ve tried doesn’t come close to them. 

[scottishsurfer]

Tried the now recons on a bataleon carver a few years ago, they were nice and responsive heel to toe and pretty solid seeming. My only real dislikes was the in ability to rotate the highbacks which i kind of need since i ride 33/3. Also the leather toe cap design is pretty big and bulky and will suffer damage and wear pretty badly if you like to ride in hard conditions. I cant say i noticed the rocking of binding as i transitioned heel to toe but this might be due to the hardest bumpers being fitted or my over exagerated movements powering straight through any movement in the binding.

Id give them a solid 8 out of 10.

if they had a more modern toe strap and ankle strap design,  adjustable heel cup like union/fix/bent metal and a rotateable highback theyd be very close to a 10 like a 9.9(nothing is ever perfect).

[John Gilmour]

I have a set of Old Rome David Bowie bindings. I was t very happy with the ratchet quality, the retention, or the hard edges of the aluminum foot plate – nor did I care for the HIgh backs ‘s, the only thing that attracted me to them was the smooth somewhat over slim  heel cup band.

I haven’t ridden every soft boot binding , But I do remember the first week I wrote the union force DLX it  was more chatter resistant than all the other unions I have ever ridden . The union force at the time , offered much more chatter absorbing ability than the Catek soft binding .  My current Union FC forged carbons cica 2017  have about 35%  more chatter than the 2009 Union  Force DLX and about 25% more than the standard Union Force. The Union carbons offer lightning fast response (When cranked down and boots clipped in properly) about 15-20% less quick than hard boots and of course walking about wearing boots and carrying your board  is relatively easy because the bindings weigh so little . But after the turn is initiated ... in  harder snow conditions or at very high speeds you might miss the much much much chestier Union Force binding . I sorta miss my old DLX which were left in a Locker on my old Rossi judge powder board in June Mt. 

A few things ... I haven’t ridden the NOW bindings and no recent FLOW bindings Slopestar loves  nor the F2 eliminator binding .  I was a buyer for a shop , and I most of my predictions on how a binding MIGHT RIDE have proven to be pretty close to what I expected. I only bought the Bowie Rome bindings for the Graphics and because they were on sale- I never use them.

The now binding is interesting in concept as it offers some sort of isolating suspension and turn commitment (like the old Funky hard binding ) but at a huge cost in weight . Still there are times I sorta wish I was off the fancy Union FC and back on my heavier FORCE DLX. So maybe the Now bindings are like that ??? Anyone ridden them both at speeds over 40 on hard snow?

 

 

 

 

[John Gilmour]

On 1/17/2020 at 3:58 PM, Mac81 said:

John, these are great tips! 

Now I am learning to do body carving on softboots -15°+15° duck stance. 

This is not easy job, especially here in Europe, Poland I never ever seen anyone doing it. So noone to ask for advice...

This is me trying: 

 

I was thinking which bindings would help me doing the job. 

I am considering: 

- Rome Black Series ,

- Rome Targa 

- Flux XV 

I am leanimg toward Rome Black Series because of weight , responsivness and adjustabiility.

But I am still not sure...

Maybe somthing else ?

Any help? 

Going faster will help. Also I should make a video of fitting bindings and how to properly “buckle in” for The best combo of performance and comfort.

Edited February 5, 2020 by John Gilmour