Donek Plates - School Me Please!

[barryj]

So there's an A, F and  AF Plates from Sean............didn't really see it spelled out on Donek website....so what's the difference and best application for each??

What's the application/performance difference from  Plates and Apex Geckos ??

[TVR]

I too would like to know.. and how do they compare to other plates, like Vist and such?

 

[lonbordin]

I've ridden Bomber, Donek, Apex plates.  I currently ride F2 RCs on Apex Geckos most of the time.

Plates basically range in the spectrum of most muted/least flexible to softly muting/more flexible. 
Note: you really should read this thread- 

 The less flexible variety soak up more of the vibrations but negate the ability to 'pedal" the board.  For carving this means easier times in rougher conditions but lack of slow speed maneuverability.  Typically this type of plate is designed for racing.

The opposite side of the scale are the geckos.  They reduce the incoming input but still retain some of the feel while allowing one to retain the ability to pedal the board. Pedaling is not to be overlooked. Everyone does it, it's subtle but can provide huge differences in riding, especially when going up to the lift line at slow speed.

Your profile says you're close to Squaw Valley.  The snow conditions that are typical at Squaw don't really require any plate at all as the isolation pads in most bindings will be sufficient to reduce the incoming vibration.  If one's resort of choice has less groom and icy conditions using a plate can allow one to continue hardbooting when others have long since left or grabbed their skis.

[barryj]

Hey Lonbordin........    thanks for that info....but have ya been to Squaw recently?    Yes, the snow conditions in general are never boiler plate, but  Squaws (what they call) grooming Sucks!  lots of unevenness and death cookies there.  Not the Mtn. for hard charging carving imo~ 

[barryj]

So.......but what's the difference between Donek's A, F and AF ??    Curious minds want to know..........

[Corey]

6 minutes ago, barryj said:

So.......but what's the difference between Donek's A, F and AF ??    Curious minds want to know..........

A plate = true hinges on axles. 

F plate = big slabs of plastic, similar to the original VIST plate but designed to be WAY simpler to work with. 

AF plate = take the same plate as the A plate but use flexible plastic blocks instead of hinges to connect to the board. Less isolation from bumps than A plates, but also less numb for better snow feel to the rider. 

[TVR]

Cory, Thank you. Awesome explanation. That was simple enough for even myself to understand.

One last question: How does this compare to the "Boiler Plate"? Is that plate similar to the A Plate?

[pokkis]

BP looks to be close to A

[barryj]

Thanks there Corey -    Next question, Why would you choose A over F over AF ??

[Corey]

That choice is highly personal. Do you like to feel what the board is doing? Or prefer a Cadillac ride? Snow feel, from most to least: F, AF, A.

I'm interested in where the Allflex plate sits in that spectrum. I'm guessing it isolates nicely until the linkage locks up, at which point it becomes a very stiff VIST plate. 

I've owned both a Donek A plate and a Bomber 4mm light. They're fantastic when you want to make it easier to ride in choppy snow. But I don't like them when the groom is good as they make the board quite numb. I sold the Donek plate but kept the Bomber one, though I haven't used it in 2 years or so. I still put it in my car every time I go out, in case the groomer operator was off his meds. 

[lowrider]

BP 4mm would be the preferred choice for rec riding.

[lonbordin]

4 hours ago, barryj said:

Hey Lonbordin........    thanks for that info....but have ya been to Squaw recently?    Yes, the snow conditions in general are never boiler plate, but  Squaws (what they call) grooming Sucks!  lots of unevenness and death cookies there.  Not the Mtn. for hard charging carving imo~ 

LOL! You heard it everyone Squaw sucks... This video [not mine] from the 14th at Squaw doesn't look or sound bad at all. 

Look I've ridden at many different resorts all over North America.  Most of the off days in the west would be considered hero days in the midwest and the east, there is a reason the moniker Ice Coast persists. 

I heartily endorse Mark's thinking when it comes to plate systems. Read it here- http://www.apexsnowboard.com/graduated-plate-system/

One thing that hasn't been addressed in the comments until now is the weight.  All full isolation plates weigh considerably more than the Geckos.  

I've ridden most of them... If I had to race for money or pride tomorrow it would be on a full isolation plate.  If I'm riding my home resort I ride the Geckos. Perfect groom I'd be on the Bomber Sidewinders. One bonus feature of these systems you can ride deep into the day when the groom is long gone.

Edited January 15, 2018 by lonbordin
C'mon, Squaw/AM just a gondola ride apart... conditions can't be that different.

[barryj]

lonbordin...I here ya west vs East coast ice........I'm from NH and we also have a home in Franconia at Cannon Mtn.  I know Ice and I tell ya Squaw  grooms at 5pm and it sets up like concrete!!

....................also that video isn't Squaw, it's Alpine Meadows on the Bunny hill!

[lonbordin]

8 minutes ago, barryj said:

....................also that video isn't Squaw, it's Alpine Meadows on the Bunny hill!

Only a gondola ride away!   You should be riding over there. 

BTW- If you ask Henry nicely he might let you demo a set of the Apex Geckos.  Realize that you won't be sending them back when you make the deal with that devil. 

[drschwartz]

I try to keep this stuff simple as well. From most flexible to most rigid.

Geckos: Carve, Cross, Stealth, risers that add leverage to the edge of the board and dampen a bit of the chop. My favorites for recreational riding and carving.

Vist, Donek F, Apex K: all are dampening plates that add weight, dampen ruts, and still allow full contact with the board for pedaling, etc. My favorite for racing. Mind you, I race recreationally, not professionally, and I shepherd High School kids with a wide range of talent, from beginner to Nor Am potential. Only the very upper end of these racers go to isolation plates, the next step up, but most do really well with the dampening plates. Used also by pros for slalom

Boilerplate, Apex X, Apex V1 & V2, Allflex, Donek A: isolation plates. The most rigid, isolating you from the chop from the terrain. Separate you from the feel of the board. Work best at high speed and with upper level racers. Great for pro GS racing

[drschwartz]

Another note: I agree with lonbordin’s Comment about the GPS method espoused by Mark at Apex. This exactly how I progress my high school racers through the use of race boards, hard boots and plates. Only rarely do I get one of those kids to full isolation plates.

[Lurch]

I'll start this question with the caveat I have never ridden any of the plate systems described here. They clearly all work and I would certainly try one if offered.

To those who have, in the context of recreational carving only, what are your thoughts on the "bang for buck" factor? Given most systems retail upwards of $400 and add a couple of pounds (geckos excluded) would that money be better spent on another board more suited to dealing with crud, rather than trying to adapt your morning scapel into an afternoon machete?

[Corey]

4 hours ago, Lurch said:

To those who have, in the context of recreational carving only, what are your thoughts on the "bang for buck" factor? Given most systems retail upwards of $400 and add a couple of pounds (geckos excluded) would that money be better spent on another board more suited to dealing with crud, rather than trying to adapt your morning scapel into an afternoon machete?

For me? Yes, save the money. I thought I'd ride with the plate every day, but I prefer a bare board most of the time. 

When conditions are right (i.e. lots of little bumps that are beating me up), I want a plate. That's pretty rare for me. 

[pokkis]

I ride extremely seldom without any plate, purely for reference/test purposes only.

Gecko type is simplest and most easiest to adapt and works well for carving. I see my friends keeping them always, regardless of condition of slope.

[lonbordin]

6 hours ago, Lurch said:

I'll start this question with the caveat I have never ridden any of the plate systems described here. They clearly all work and I would certainly try one if offered.

To those who have, in the context of recreational carving only, what are your thoughts on the "bang for buck" factor? Given most systems retail upwards of $400 and add a couple of pounds (geckos excluded) would that money be better spent on another board more suited to dealing with crud, rather than trying to adapt your morning scapel into an afternoon machete?

Bang for buck is Gecko for me. That said I understand where @Corey is coming from... if I lived near a hill with really great groom, say Spirit Mtn in Duluth, I would probably opt for the TD3-SW.  As it is I go to a poorly groomed hill and I like to ride hard boots so Gecko/plate it is for me. Also, as previously stated, Isolation plate shouldn't be the first step (be careful of slow speed maneuvers, lift lines, and getting off the lift. You will fall ungracefully.).

I'd add something these systems do reduce the amount of energy your legs/joints have to absorb and allow one to stay out longer.

[GeoffV]

@barryj it would help to understand what application you want to use a plate for. 

Freecarving? Racing? Both?

I have been on all 3 Donek plates and currently race with the AF plate.

@Donek Sean can jump in and help explain his plates.

A-Plate is softer and more flexy and good for freecarving and has a higher rise. THE AF plate is is a little stiffer lower rise and is a great tool for racing and for advanced carvers. The F-plate is generally very close to the VIST or Kesslers K-plate concept..