west carven Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 howdy just to add to the nonsense... this looks cool to some, but I consider this a dirty carve, hard or soft boots... anytime you are dragging body parts it is poor form... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 hours ago, west carven said: howdy just to add to the nonsense... this looks cool to some, but I consider this a dirty carve, hard or soft boots... Yeah. At only one point in that video do they show him linking two turns together... and it doesn't look like he'd have enough speed for a third. I liked the apple though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 to this thread...yesterday I saw 2 young (30 to 40) SB Riding the Wave and ripping some stylistic Carves...I have some instructor friends that like to share the wave, but seeing some SB on it put a smile on my face...and last week I saw a SB set up with both feet pointing forward somewhat!...It is fun to see, I have told our son for years, that when he got older, "just Carving around", would take on a new meaning perhaps...in fact he was just here with Olga and their Twins , at 41 he actually spent a number of Sessions with the Ol Man surfin around... the message? this is about Fun on the Mountain, attacking other members here, for whatever reason, does not make you as good, as you think you are... Get Stoked or Stay Home, your choice... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, west carven said: howdy just to add to the nonsense... this looks cool to some, but I consider this a dirty carve, hard or soft boots... anytime you are dragging body parts it is poor form... 11 hours ago, softbootsurfer said: the message? this is about Fun on the Mountain, attacking other members here, for whatever reason, does not make you as good, as you think you are... Get Stoked or Stay Home, your choice... Take it easy, you two. You don't need to fight about it. Edited March 6, 2018 by Rob Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 11 hours ago, daveo said: Umm.. Err.. I had a response for this then realised I was wasting my time.. I hear you... I’m biting my lip here and trying so hard not to reply, as it’s bound to be pointless. I have raced up to WC level in hardboots, won titles in SBX on softs and my soft boot freeride board is a Yes Optimistic. It’s short, stiff, wide, huge powder platform...with a 6m sidecut... Doesn’t perform well in a freeride setting? Yeah, OK t-nut ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) Give t nut a bit of a break. What we don’t know about the guy is his height and build vs. his foot size. If he’s 5’ 7”, 150 lbs with a size 14 foot, he’s cooked. Anything wider than the high 20’s is going to be really challenging to ride well, if you’re proportionately out of whack with your foot size. Some folks will ultimately be better off skiing. T Nut... if you’re of more “normal” height, weight and foot size (not much over an 11) it’s just a case of practice. That said, I do like my tapered FR board better for all mountain than my big Donek. It works, but I need to really be on it to get after the same lines the narrower tailed board does intuitively. It’s a valid point... Current softboot carving boards aren’t as good at free riding as one might hope. I have my ideas for a custom, based on the Donek, but with more float. What I’ll probably wind up with is a nice carver / pow board, that’ll be a bear in the bumps. Edited March 5, 2018 by Rob Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) Rob, something like this works really well...short, wide, stiff with lots of volume. No, it’s not an absolute mogul-killer, but neither are my Kesslers-162, 171 & 180! Yes Optimistic 154. Edited March 5, 2018 by Emdee406 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Emdee406 said: Rob, something like this works really well...short, wide, stiff with lots of volume. No, it’s not an absolute mogul-killer, but neither are my Kesslers-162, 171 & 180! Yes Optimistic 154. Hi Emdee. How's it hangin'? I do have a soft spot for the Yes boards. A good pal of mine designs their entire line. Roman and David get their mitts in there, but Alex probably has the last word! I also appreciate the Nidecker factory quality (Dubai build, of all places). The ones I've been looking are the Yes 420 w/ the powderhull and 20 / 20 with the same. They're over 28 wide, so should handle the boot out problem pretty well. The issue I have is the lack of real estate up front. It's wide, so you have the float, but not the effective edge, so it wouldn't be as stable as a longer offering. Alex and I have gone around about that point for awhile now. I pointed out to him, when he said that I wouldn't miss the length of a 170 because his boards have the volume, that he and his guys probably ride too much powder. Volume is an equalizer to a longer board when the whole thing is sinking in, but there's no replacement for EE when it comes to hardpack stability. When I visit him next week, it'll be Yes boards and Now bindings from his garage (another of his one-time projects, with JF Pelchat) so I leave room to be amazed. On the other hand, I'll put him on my Donek, so maybe he'll be of a mind to expand the line into the 160's. Still pretty f'in short by alpine standards, but a 165 Yes 20 / 20 or 420 would be an instant addition for me. Edited March 5, 2018 by Rob Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 5 hours ago, Rob Stevens said: Current softboot carving boards aren’t as good at free riding as one might hope I wouldn't really factor in that big stiff 170 x 28cm wide board of yours when thinking about this, it's a pretty unique beast. My new 166 x 27.5cm board is a great freerider and it carves great on the blues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdee406 Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Rob, I’ll be interested to hear what comes out of your visit. If you get the chance, take a lap on the 157 Optimistic, plenty of real estate there! It’s like an aircraft carrier This is one of my current faves to watch, the Korua guys have done more than most to push this rebirth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-nut Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 I am glad that the thread has eventually taken the turn I hoped it would go after my post--a discussion of freeride boards that are wide, but nimble and also carve-able. I did not expect that a recapitulation of the oft agreed-upon statement--that wide boards are slow edge to egde--would amount to sheer iconoclasm and strike the nerves of some. Thank you, Rob Stevens for coming to my defense. I stand by my post, because it is borne of personal experience. My softboot carver was a 163 A-Frame 26.8cm waist, 9.2m sidecut. It was great in open areas, it was a pig in the trees. Hence, not a good freeride board. Compared to my 164 Frontier with around a 25cm waist, it was extremely slow turning and a lot of work to manage in tight spots. It even booted out on deep heelsides. Truly a most mediocre of all worlds performer for me. I've seen these small boards like the k2 carve-air that are marketed as freeride carvers, but I was and remain doubtful of the short sidecuts. Can you carve steeps with a 6m sidecut? I've always thought you need at least 8m to get a good carve. Lastly, I will say to those who responded rudely, if you think you know better or have something to contribute, do so, as my message was written in the spirit of open discussion. I'm not averse to respectful disagreement. I am however, like everybody else, averse to being condescended towards. In the last line, I make an appeal to the forum to tell me about freeride boards that can carve. I hope the discussion can continue in that vein, or in an otherwise constructive form from here on out. I think we could all use a bit more time shredding than we could use arguing on this board. Thanks, and have a good day. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 ^love that vid. after dabbling in all sorts of hardware, i think i've found my happy realm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jack Michaud said: I wouldn't really factor in that big stiff 170 x 28cm wide board of yours when thinking about this, it's a pretty unique beast. My new 166 x 27.5cm board is a great freerider and it carves great on the blues. I'm thinking more about the boards many would associate with softboot carving, like SBX race boards. The hammerhead shape looks like it would be trouble in pow. The Donek is no walk in the park, but it does have a fairly standard, twin shape with a nose that doesn't dive like a hammerhead would. What makes it harder to FR on is its weight (FO heavy. Does that thing have metal in it? Iron? It's damp AF, but probaly weighs the equivalent of 3 Spring Breaks), lack of setback in the inserts, and to a degree, the leverage of the width. It really wants to sit flat, so making it stand up on edge is not super easy on the ankles. That said, and with size 11 shells, I've settled on 28 as being my new minimum for "mixed" days where there's some groomers AND choppy freeride to be had. Hopefully, my next custom will alleviate some of the less free-ride'y traits of the Sasquatch (limited to non-existant taper, full camber profile, fully centred inserts, and its weight), but I'll always expect somewhat slower edge to edge and more tired ankles than boards that I can't unstylistically drag body on. Edited March 6, 2018 by Rob Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 @t-nut, I got a 27.5cm wide 166cm long board to freeride and carve on in softboots, because I have size 10.5 boots. It carves, freerides, and handles trees just great. If someone with a size 9 boot jumps on it, they will think it's sluggish and unfit for certain activities. That is the concept of scale I mentioned. Boards good for carving in softboots will be different widths for different people. Declaring all softboot carving-capable boards as bad freeriders is shortsighted, or even rude. Anyone who rides a snowboard and spends a not-insignificant portion of their time on groomers should be able to carve (I realize this is a radical concept). Of these people, anyone who rides a snowboard that is not wide enough to prevent boot-out while carving is riding a snowboard that is not wide enough, period. They should get a properly sized board and learn how to use it everywhere. And I'm not talking Knapton-wide here. The vast majority of softbooters ride boards that are too narrow. Heck, too many softbooters ride stances that leave them with more board behind their back foot than there is in front of their front foot. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 I have small feet, size 7 Driver Xs (9 street shoe). I still need pretty high binding angles because I like to put the board pretty high on edge. I had just gotten accustomed to carving a 258 waist width board earlier this season, up from 250. Now I really dislike 250. At 258 waist I am still at 30/21. Today I got to ride a friend's Coiler BXFR. 161x265 wide. I dropped my angles to 27/15, but I could hardly power that waist width. The board was fighting me for every degree of edge angle. It really wanted to be flat on the snow. I am pretty adaptable, but have really found wider boards to be an acquired taste. I am not sure if I could get used to 265, but it seems that is just too wide for me. I do have a 156x267 powder board that I really enjoy (in powder of any type), but I don't expect I would want to freeride a board that wide in mixed conditions, even if it was designed for that purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 31 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said: I'm thinking more about the boards many would associate with softboot carving, like SBX race boards. The hammerhead shape looks like it would be trouble in pow. I think the Kessler Cross looks pretty agreeable with pow and all-terrain riding. My Coiler SL 163 was surprisingly great in pow - 21cm waist, avg 10m radius, so the nose was pretty wide. The nose was more blunt than this and it was float city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, Buell said: I have small feet, size 7 Driver Xs (9 street shoe). I still need pretty high binding angles because I like to put the board pretty high on edge. I had just gotten accustomed to carving a 258 waist width board earlier this season, up from 250. Now I really dislike 250. At 258 waist I am still at 30/21. Yep. In terms of scale, a 258mm wide board for a size 7 boot is actually a little wider than a 275mm wide board is for a size 10.5 boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 21 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: @t-nut, Heck, too many softbooters ride stances that leave them with more board behind their back foot than there is in front of their front foot. I think we can all agree that that's fucked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 11 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: I think the Kessler Cross looks pretty agreeable with pow and all-terrain riding. My Coiler SL 163 was surprisingly great in pow - 21cm waist, avg 10m radius, so the nose was pretty wide. The nose was more blunt than this and it was float city. I'll reserve the term "Float City" for the board in the centre of this pic. Trout Lake, British Columbia certified. TL is like Revelstoke, but with snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said: I'll reserve the term "Float City" for the board in the centre of this pic. lol, touche. I didn't believe it either until I tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: lol, touche. I didn't believe it either until I tried it. It's pretty funny what a board has to look like nowadays to be considered a "pow" board. One of my favourites to this day is the Salomon Burner. It looks just like that Kessler.That particular Salomon used to be a top-line SBX board 10 years ago, before racers figured out the nose flip wasn't ideal for close-quarters racing. If you had less than an 8 shell, you'd be tipping that board right over, too. If anyone reading this comes across a Burner in the used market, and you're of the smaller footed set, they're choice. I'd highly recommend picking one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buell Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: Yep. In terms of scale, a 258mm wide board for a size 7 boot is actually a little wider than a 275mm wide board is for a size 10.5 boot. Agreed. I was trying to experiment with lower angles than 30/21, but I might have hit my limit on board width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 I want my Donek and the the big Asmo in the picture to get it on. Trouble child. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) This video is as relevant today as it was when @Donek made it in 2010. Thank you Sean. Boards should be as wide as the stance angles you wish to run and your boot sole length dictates. If you are a little person with huge feet squats are your friend. Edited March 6, 2018 by lonbordin What you though I was going to say foot binding?!? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted March 6, 2018 Report Share Posted March 6, 2018 59 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: The vast majority of softbooters ride boards that are too narrow. Heck, too many softbooters ride stances that leave them with more board behind their back foot than there is in front of their front foot. chrome.exe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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