New boot thoughts

[Randy Kight]

Merry Christmas to all!  

Interested in grabbing a new pair.  Been in a pair of Raichle SB 324's since 2000.  Before this, it was the Nordica SBH's since 1991.  Tried Nordica's SHB Hard variant around middle 90's, but these were like concrete.  I currently ride a Volkl Spline 164 with either an older pair of Burton Race Plates, or Fin's TD3 Side Winders.  215 pounds, 5'10".  Ride East Coast and not often as I'd like.  Tried a Custom Kessler a few years back but did not like...liked the carvy feel of the Volkl better.

I'm not a racer, and ride mellower angles than most of you guys, 45/35.  Love the carve on groom, and all I really like to do.

Having said above, I'm tossing around the idea of the 700's or the 325's.  Michelle a year or so ago thought the 700's would be the choice to go with.  Don't want an overbearing super stiff race only boot.  Simply one that will help move me forward with skill and still be a little forgiving.  

I've heard that the 700's are not that stiff and some have indicated that it was hard to tell the difference between these two when trying on, other than fit.  

 

I know fit is priority, but would like input from those that have experience with this regarding flex/performance/etc.  

 

Thanks for all the help!

Randy Kight

Richmond, VA 

[AJCdice]

If those are your two choices, think about your foot shape.  General rule of thumb is that 700's have wider front foot area and narrower heel and 325's vise versa.  Getting a proper fit is the most important thing.

[Randy Kight]

Thanks AJ.  Yes, fit is a concern, but at this stage I'm more interested in flex/stiffness/forgiveness/feel differences between the two.  I've heard some say they feel very similar in flex.  I'm aware of fit differences between two.

[breeseomatic]

With the differing stiffness of liners, tongues, and additional spring kits, fit is far more important than stiffness. 

Second would be flex pattern, symmetrical vs asymmetrical.  I haven't really felt a difference and my skill level dictates that I probably never will, but it's worth noting.

As far as 700's go, it depends on the year, I think the white ones with the red tongues made in 2009/2010 were the softest and the red with white tongue or all red were the stiffest.  The newer white with black tongues are somewhere in the middle.

I recommend you buy a BTS kit and some extra springs and experiment with your current setup.  You may find that you like a really stiff boot or really soft boots or stiff heel side and soft toes or med/stiff front soft rear boot. There are a lot of combinations out there.

I personally prefer a slightly softer boot, especially in the rear, for wider boards because of the mobility.  I'm probably choosing the wider board for the terrain and having the ability to flex the ankle a little helps me keep the board on the ground and to land some jumps.  If I'm riding a GS style board with an isolation plate on hero groom, I prefer a stiffer boot.

Enjoy the process.

 

 

[Randy Kight]

Thanks for the information!  Curious to what boot you're riding. 

Also, if anyone has ridden the newer 700 and has also ridden the UPS, I'd be interested in hearing which felt stiffer or which felt softer. 

[michael.a]

I have a pair of 700s but the Salt Lake City version with the race tongues and someone said theyre the stiffest out there but I doubt it.

But I can easily mod the flex of the boots with my spring system, have two sets stiff and soft, and three sets of liners, one super soft red Thermoflexes, Intuition Powerwraps, and a pair of ultra stiff Intuition Gold IDs. If I had another pair of soft tongues Id pretty much have the golden package.

[breeseomatic]

1 hour ago, Randy Kight said:

Thanks for the information!  Curious to what boot you're riding. 

Also, if anyone has ridden the newer 700 and has also ridden the UPS, I'd be interested in hearing which felt stiffer or which felt softer. 

2009/10 Track 700, white with red tongues

BTS kit, yellow springs, tight up front, sloppy in the rear ;). When I get on a carving board I tighten up the back boot a little but it's still softer than the front .

I also weigh in at 160# all geared up so the flex is quite a bit different for me with yellow springs vs someone else weighing in 50# more.

[lamby]

I was riding older 324s and upgraded to 700s. I found my new 700s to be too stiff for my liking. I purchased a bts kit with blue springs and like the boots a lot now.

[Randy Kight]

On 12/25/2016 at 0:54 AM, lamby said:

I was riding older 324s and upgraded to 700s. I found my new 700s to be too stiff for my liking. I purchased a bts kit with blue springs and like the boots a lot now.

Thanks for the information lamby.  Interested in the BTS then. So in your opinion the Blue springs too and bottom softened the 700 a bit? Would a combo of yellow and blue be too soft?

thanks

[SunSurfer]

Unless you understand what you're trying to achieve with boot flex the process of altering it has no direction.

Boots allow a rider to apply controlled pressure to the edges of the board in order to make it carve. The boots and bindings together allow a degree of motion that allows us to soak up the bumps and ruts a rider encounters while in motion, both carving and skidding.

Hard snowboard boots flex primarily forwards and backwards. They are not designed to flex sideways. People ride loosely set-up bail bindings or save up and buy Sidewinders for serious lateral flex.

BTS and other spring systems, as well as the inherent rigidity of the plastic in boot shell, cuff, and tongue, plus the liners, all contribute to how much fore and aft motion is possible. How much is desirable depends on which style you are riding, and may differ between front and rear boots.

Are you racing, riding binding angles > than 50 degrees or < 50 degrees, riding in Pure Boarding style, or an extreme carver. Your boot flex needs will vary depending on your style.

A stiff forward flex allows precise application of pressure in the toe of the boot. A soft forward flex makes it less precise but allows a greater range of knee bend and possibly a lower body position.

A stiff rearward flex allows precise application of heel pressure. 

Finally note that in the original description of how to set up the BTS system Fin has placed a photo showing different coloured springs on the same boot, allowing different flex fore and aft.

If you don't know where you are going any road will do.

As an example, I ride 65/60 degrees and apply edge pressure from the lateral parts of my boots. I have BTS only on my rear boot with it set very soft to allow lots of rear knee bend to soak up the bumps and allow me a lower body position deep in my turns. My front boot is locked in position allowing precise weighting of either front edge.

This set-up is not applicable to someone riding lower angles who weights their edges with the front heel heelside, and the rear toes toeside.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by SunSurfer
Add example

[SunSurfer]

:-) 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by SunSurfer
Inadvertent double post

[Randy Kight]

Yea, I get all of that Sunsurfer, and I appreciate the long descriptive response/information. I've been riding plates/hard boots for a very long time, and have an idea of what I enjoy. I'm simply trying to get as much information as I can on how drastic a difference I would/could expect from the boot I'm currently in and these new 700's which is very tough to do when you have no way of trying on prior to purchase.  Being in mid Atlantic EC my only option is online.  Having options like the BTS is good for small tweaks. 

I appreciate everyone's help and input. I'll be buying the 700's and taking a stab at a BTS kit from Jim shortly. 

Randy

[nigelc]

With the bts you get almost complete control over forward lean and fore/aft flex, which is reason enough ti go with a stiff boot. This just leaves sideways flex, which is controllable by boot initial flex/modifications, or with the sidewinder or  other bindings

[nigelc]

I upgraded from SB413's to white and black 700's with blue spring BTS. I weigh 100kg, about 220lbs. With the SB's the sidewall of the boot would collapse. With the 700's I have control of the flex via BTS. I can go soft for powdery days , stiffen up for hardpack etc. The 700 is also more foot shaped, at least my foot, with a roomier toebox and lower volume ankle & heel.

The extra control yielded much better feel not less. Stiffer boots, big improvement.

 

[Randy Kight]

Thank you Nigelc. Will be ordering early next week. 

Again, thanks to all. 

[Randy Kight]

Quick question guys...

Any difference in the 700's made in 13-14 and current year?  I know they are the same color, but not sure if anything was changed.  Appreciate a response...found some only ridden a couple of times.