Newbie looking for advice

[b0ardski]

I've ridden stiff stepins with softer raichles for decades, very versatile. Stiffer boots benefit from flexy bindings at lower angles(30*-45*) on wider softer boards, here"s where sidewinders shine.

The stiffest softy setup & soft flexing hardboots with snowpro, buton/Ibex or f2, overlap each other in the wide grey middle of the spectrum.

 

[west carven]

howdy olshitsky

just get some good stiff softboots for trees and carving groomers.

the limit is you and not the equipment... i'm sure these guys fly in the trees too...

 

[b0ardski]

did I mention I really, really step-in convenience?

could be an old mans best friend

[Neil Gendzwill]

I ride F2 Titanflex step-ins with Raichle 224s, there's flex all over the place and I like it that way. I can drive me back knee into the front Craig Kelly style if I want. 

[Jack M]

8 hours ago, olshitsky said:

anything you'd recommend?

If you really want a significantly softer hardboot for freeriding, check out hardshell mountaineering boots.  I never went that far, but @b0ardski here uses them, and I think a few others.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'm sure they've improved since the 90s but I really didn't like my old Koflach mountaineering boots. They only flexed so far forward then stopped. My Raichles have a much more progressive smooth flex. 

[lowrider]

To all the "Expert" responses to shitsky's inquiry i would respond with whatever you find useful adopt and what isn't reject. To do so requires that one is willing to spend time and money. Some wasted some a good investment. Everything hardbooting is based mostly on personal preference. A good rider can make just about anything work. A beginner can use any excuse to explain their failure. If your willing to try any of the various suggestions you will probably find something that will work. My opinion is that time spent riding with others of any ability will improve your performance. Try before you buy works if you have the inclination and the means. Take advantage of the gear to loan postings and make an effort to get to a riding session ECES  Nakiska  or any group that shares their riding schedule. Personally i have a viariety of boot types and makes that i use under different circumstances, conditions, time of day, fatigue etc. Some people only ride in ideal conditions others will ride on anything anytime some for a few hours some all day. Make a plan try before you buy and have fun.

[Corey]

Have we scared off olshitsky?  (BTW - Funny username!)  In general, we tend to obsess over details that are largely unimportant to a beginner.  Does that debate over minutia scare away some people?  I'm not arguing that we shouldn't debate minutia, but maybe not directly in front of a beginner.  

Are we our own worst enemy for growing the sport?  I know I recently looked at a new skateboard for LDP - the options and opinions baffled me.  I realized I could spend years researching and testing, or I could just buy something suggested by multiple people as a good starting point, and then adjust later if so desired.  I almost did nothing - just keep doing what I was doing.  Coming into alpine snowboarding, I got the board, boots, and bindings that were readily available at the time and had a blast.  Luckily they worked out pretty well as the board was soft and friendly (Burton Alp 169), the bindings were durable (Bomber TD1s), and the boots were forgiving (Deeluxe 413).  This simple setup got me hooked.  

How can we come to an agreement about the 'best' or 'suitable' boards/boots/bindings for new folks without scaring them away?  Maybe a beginner's gear for sale forum that we can direct someone towards?  New FAQs?  

Another parallel in my life is car racing, or autocross.  A beginner shows up, and we guide them through the process to get started with whatever car they have.  When people start discussing the rules structure and debating the relative value of different parts and/or cars, you can watch the excitement leave the newbies' eyes.  That stuff matters at a high level, but just getting out, doing it, and having a blast is the most important part for the beginner.  The details come later, if they want.  Some never want to go that deep; they just want to screw around with their Civic/Corvette/WRX/Tercel.  

How can we (alpine snowboarders) provide a welcoming environment that's less detailed and more about fun?  

Olshitsky, thanks for giving me the platform to start this.  It's something I've spoken about with Fin and a few people before.  This probably isn't even the right place for this discussion, but it's a start.  

[SkoonyMcGroomer]

Throw your hat in the ring here. Super cool gesture by asdfzxcv.

[olshitsky]

8 hours ago, corey_dyck said:

Have we scared off olshitsky?  (BTW - Funny username!)  In general, we tend to obsess over details that are largely unimportant to a beginner.  Does that debate over minutia scare away some people?  I'm not arguing that we shouldn't debate minutia, but maybe not directly in front of a beginner.  

Are we our own worst enemy for growing the sport?  I know I recently looked at a new skateboard for LDP - the options and opinions baffled me.  I realized I could spend years researching and testing, or I could just buy something suggested by multiple people as a good starting point, and then adjust later if so desired.  I almost did nothing - just keep doing what I was doing.  Coming into alpine snowboarding, I got the board, boots, and bindings that were readily available at the time and had a blast.  Luckily they worked out pretty well as the board was soft and friendly (Burton Alp 169), the bindings were durable (Bomber TD1s), and the boots were forgiving (Deeluxe 413).  This simple setup got me hooked.  

How can we come to an agreement about the 'best' or 'suitable' boards/boots/bindings for new folks without scaring them away?  Maybe a beginner's gear for sale forum that we can direct someone towards?  New FAQs?  

Another parallel in my life is car racing, or autocross.  A beginner shows up, and we guide them through the process to get started with whatever car they have.  When people start discussing the rules structure and debating the relative value of different parts and/or cars, you can watch the excitement leave the newbies' eyes.  That stuff matters at a high level, but just getting out, doing it, and having a blast is the most important part for the beginner.  The details come later, if they want.  Some never want to go that deep; they just want to screw around with their Civic/Corvette/WRX/Tercel.  

How can we (alpine snowboarders) provide a welcoming environment that's less detailed and more about fun?  

Olshitsky, thanks for giving me the platform to start this.  It's something I've spoken about with Fin and a few people before.  This probably isn't even the right place for this discussion, but it's a start.  

Absolutely Not.  My summertime outlet is sailboat racing, and it too has its own forum, very similar to this (well, in appearance anyway.  newbies are promptly told to fuck off and post a picture of their gf/wife's tits.  the lecherous sailor stereotype exists for a reason, but that's a whole other post).

But just like this forum, the sailing forum can provide an unlimited amount of information, from newbies on to the top.  Similarly, many wonder aloud if bombarding people just getting introduced to the sport with advance racing questions, etc, can intimidate and scare them away.

I don't think so.  Any activity worth doing is worth learning about in detail. 

So I welcome all the info...and the polite nature. 

Side note:  my username is a play on my last name, and I used it on the sailing forum as well!

Edited September 8, 2016 by olshitsky

[TLN]

I was writing a response, but it wasn't posted here. 

Cheers to Chicago carvers. I live in windy city also, and ride local resorts. Feel free to reach out, it always more fun riding together.

In my opinion it all depends on a skills and weight. As @teach said: 220lbs and 150 lbs makes bigg difference. 

I was asking same questions when I started carving, so long story short:

Bindings: F2 Race Ti.

Boots: UPZ if you're into carving and willing to spend. Start with used Deeluxe if you not sure. Moldable liner is a must for any boos.

Board: For local hills you want something shorter. Waist  about 20-21 is a good starting point. If you wanna save a little - you can start with used board - believe me it will be as much fun as new one. Modern Donek/Prior/Coiler is a great great choice. With hardboots - it will be easier to "make board turn" then softboard, so no worries here. I was riding hardboots only last season (simply because I didn't bought soft boots/bindings last year) - and I got no problems on my almost-GS Coiler 180: from icy conditions to spring slush.

If you're 200lbs or more - you can try my boards/plate if you want.

 

[snowboardfast]

Lots of good answers here. if you are going to do anything as a hobby it is going to take time to do research to start and then money and time to give it a try.  I don't know how you can get more people to try hardboot snowboarding? I have been doing it for a long time and it seems that people will ask you about your gear but are not interested in wanting to give it a try. I don't know how you would change that?  I think  Olshitsky has been given enough info and he will have to decide what he wants to do? I don't think that the people that ride alpine are their own worst enemy for growing the sport.  The internet is a good tool to help people as we did not have it back in the late 1980's when I started hardbooting. Every hobby that I do has lots of details that you have to learn to get the gear to work and have fun with it.  A person has to be motivated on their own to do this.

[Prunes]

11 hours ago, corey_dyck said:

How can we (alpine snowboarders) provide a welcoming environment that's less detailed and more about fun?  

The discipline seems to attract people who are interested in the more technical side of snowboarding. I like its geekiness and the requisite tinkering...

I think what really scares people (hopefully not away) is the gear-buying gamble. It's overwhelming trying to decide based only on specs or recommendations; more opportunities to test drive the stuff would help overcome this (a challenge with such a niche).

In many ways it reminds me of speed skating; technical sport, super specialized (hard to find) equipment, and a relatively small, friendly, fiercely devoted group.

[MountainSlope]

Hey OP.... I wrote you a few mails last week but no idea if you saw them in your forum inbox.

Hubby rides professionally and his gear is:

Board: Kessler

Binding: F2 Titanium

Plate: Allflex or Vist

Boots: Northwave Point.950

[Neil Gendzwill]

Puhutes, the OP is looking for advice on an all-mountain set-up. Your husband's gear is pretty much the opposite of that. On top of that, Northwaves are only available used or rarely NOS at ridiculous prices. $4000 for a pair of boots, anyone?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Neil Gendzwill

[JRAZZ]

Are we obsessing over the details of the thread?

[lordmetroland]

7 hours ago, Prunes said:

I think what really scares people (hopefully not away) is the gear-buying gamble.

I suspect you're right, but one of the less obvious benefits of this forum (especially for a newb) is that buying used gear is often not unlike a demo program; if you don't like it, you can typically resell the stuff at near the price you paid, making it less a gamble than a hassle. And as far as bindings go, Bombers and Cateks seem to hold their value better than other manufacturers. They're the BOBs/Bugaboos of the baby stroller world.

[MountainSlope]

4 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

Puhutes, the OP is looking for advice on an all-mountain set-up. Your husband's gear is pretty much the opposite of that. On top of that, Northwaves are only available used or rarely NOS at ridiculous prices. $4000 for a pair of boots, anyone?

Hello Neil, 

My post was directed towards the OP (olshitsky). I had originally wrote him a PM...  also I apologize if my response has offended you in some way. 

I was actually replying to a later reply the OP posted. 

" Any activity worth doing is worth learning about in detail. So I welcome all the info...and the polite nature."

I thought maybe he would be interested in knowning about the higher end gear some people ride.

As for your quoted price of $4000... I'm pretty sure the new ones won't cost that much 

[Neil Gendzwill]

1 minute ago, Puhutes said:

My post was directed towards the OP (olshitsky). I had originally wrote him a PM...  also I apologize if my response has offended you in some way.

I wasn't offended, just pointing out that the information isn't what he was asking about.  Listing the details of a high-end racing setup doesn't help him much in selecting gear for riding bumps and trees in hard boots.

[Aracan]

Also, at this point the "new Northwaves" cost nothing at all, as they are not available yet, nor has anyone published a date for when they will be.

[TLN]

Why all the newbie topics comes down to kesslers and plates?

All he need to start - is good boots with comfy liner, good bindings, and pretty much any board suitable for weight. That will keep him happy for 2 or more years.

[Neil Gendzwill]

36 minutes ago, TLN said:

All he need to start - is good boots with comfy liner, good bindings, and pretty much any board suitable for weight. That will keep him happy for 2 or more years.

Not necessarily. I think the setup Puhutes outlined meets those criteria, but it's distinctly unsuited for what the OP wants to do, which is all-mountain riding.  He could go shopping in the used section and end up with an old Factory Prime, TD1s and some AF700s and again, have the wrong gear for what he wants to do.

He needs a shorter, wider board than what many of the people here ride.  He needs a boot/binding combo that is softer than what many of the people ride here.

[TLN]

29 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

Not necessarily. I think the setup Puhutes outlined meets those criteria, but it's distinctly unsuited for what the OP wants to do, which is all-mountain riding.  He could go shopping in the used section and end up with an old Factory Prime, TD1s and some AF700s and again, have the wrong gear for what he wants to do.

He needs a shorter, wider board than what many of the people here ride.  He needs a boot/binding combo that is softer than what many of the people ride here.

OP haven't posted his weight, have he?

I personally think that slalom board, especially old one(glass and single radius) is solid choice for a beginner. I never tried AF700, but guess it will work ok for heavier riders.

Bottom line: it all depends on weight-skills and asking price to me.

[Neil Gendzwill]

13 minutes ago, TLN said:

I personally think that slalom board, especially old one(glass and single radius) is solid choice for a beginner. I never tried AF700, but guess it will work ok for heavier riders.

Remember, this is not the standard question about a beginner who wants to learn how to carve with hard boots.  This guy wants to use it for all-mountain riding. When I think of all-mountain, I think it should work in the bumps, in the trees, in cut-up pow, etc etc.

You think an old fibreglass slalom board is a good choice for all-mountain riding?  Even if he's a heavyweight that can bend it easily, it will still force him into a stance too steep to work well off the groomed.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Neil Gendzwill
Clarify

[olshitsky]

I'm 200 lbs, fairly athletic in build but as Neil pointed out, I rarely dedicate a full day to carving so I want as versatile of a board as possible.  My perspective is that if I make a transition to a HB setup, my carves will be much more extreme than what I'm currently trying to do on my soft boot setup.  This is what I want, even if they're not as extreme as what I could get with a race board.

Sean suggested not getting a metal core as it may not hold up in all mountain riding, but he said he could add a dampening system. 

Any thoughts on that?  I would imagine I'd want more kick (less damp?) if i'm going through bumps/trees?