concerned about to committing to new boots?

[1xsculler]

I received new UPZ RC-10s, MP 28-28.5 today and I'm very concerned about committing to them because I fear they will be too small.

 

My foot measures 28 cm.  With my bare foot in the shell, toes firmly touching the end I can just barely get one finger between my heel and the shell.  Two fingers wouldn't even begin to fit, of course.  Actually I'm using a long stick that is equal to one finger in one dimension and equal to two fingers on the other dimension as it's much more convenient than trying to get my hand in there.  To get more technical I can just fit a wooden dowel of .90", ~ 22 mm, between my heel and the shell if I place them at the same time.

 

I hear that the most frequent boot fitting mistake is going too large.  These boots cramp my toes significantly with my bare feet in the liners in the shells.  Leaning forward relieves the pressure somewhat.  Walking in them would be pretty uncomfortable

 

The liner that came with the boot says FLO on it.   Is it a good liner?

 

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Edited March 22, 2016 by 1xsculler

[Surf Quebec]

My feet are 27 cm and I'm riding 26~26.5 shell rc10.

I'm not using the flo liner, uncomfortable and pretty cold.

I would go with those boots and buy a Palau or intuition thin thermo liner.

[nigelc]

27cm feet in a mp26 deeluxe 700 with intuitions. I have maybe a 10mm heel gap with a barefoot shell test. They are very comfortable.

[Hilux]

That does seem about right in terms of shell fit.  Did you get these from Dan Yoja (UPZ distributor)? Did he provide any sizing advice?

 

Flo liners are great if they fit.  I tried them around the house (total of 3 hrs "break-in") and they seemed fine and was enthusiastic they'd work.  After the first time out I was in quite a bit of pain. Thought I'd give it another time on the hill only to find out they were bruising my feet so it was a no-go.  First used some old Raichle thermo's and they worked great for a season and then bought some Deeluxe (Palau) and haven't looked back. 

 

With liner in the shell and flexing forward, do your toes pull off the front?

[mr_roboteye]

I have RC10's with the stock (flo) liners. I was curious so I put a bare foot in the shell to see where I was at.

 

With my big toe touching the front, i would say I have less than 10mm between my heel and the rear of the shell.

 

I've only worn them riding one day for about four hours, but I found them to be just fine.

[Beckmann AG]

 

 

22mm is just slightly more than twice enough spare length.

 

The following is for ski boots, but then plastic is plastic, and feet are feet.

http://beckmannag.com/alpine-skiing/boot-selection

[1xsculler]

Thanks a bunch to all for taking the time to reply. Your real world experiences really help a newbie.

[snowboardfast]

A lot of people are having to use heat moldable liners to make the upz boot work. I am another one that had to do this. I am comfortable with a intuition liner in this boot. The flo liner kills my feet. Why doesn't UPZ simply supply a heat moldable liner with their boots like Deluxe does? the other thing to consider with UPZ is the heel lift and the difference in forward lean. this changes your stance while riding. I think I like Deluxe boots better after going back and forth between both boots. I haven't fully made up my mind yet? Also the deluxe boot does not come with a spring system but you can add bTS which cost more for the boots. I don't like the rear boot in postion 3 as it is too upright and 2 is too forward so I will go back to using BTS which allows more range of motion. I am going to try red BTS on both boots and see how that works and if I don't like that I will go back to red BTS on the rear only.  I also had to buy a pair of gray toungues for the UPZ as the front foot is too soft with the black for me. I found it was too stiff to run the gray toungue on the rear foot so I run black on the rear and gray on the front.  Quite a bit of difference between the 2 boots both in flex and forward lean .   Good to have 2 boots that are not the same but I had to spend a lot of money to try this as you cannot demo boots and sometimes you have to ride them a lot to really tell if you like them or not? 

[Ladia]

My oppinion, get rid of them. I have US size 8.5. All my ski and snowboard boots were 26.5. A couple years after foot surgery I bought RC8 at 27.5. They were extremely comfortable after I put thermoliners in. I was not able to make them to ride for me, I though they were too stiff. I sold them and around Christmas I bought 2016 ABS. I asked Dan about correct size and he told me to get 26.5. So I did and it was horrible mistake. Too short, original liner was about 1/2 shorter than any of liner I have in that size, I know guys here tell you stretch it, it would be paper thin. I did not even bother with this liner and went straight to thermoliners. Even with those I am done after 3 hours. They became torturing device and I am not able to ride in these either even with Roberto's custom spring system. They feel OK on the carpet, but on the snow different story. These boots are just not for me, maybe they are too tall or that inside ramp is too steep. I had to change my front binding to 6 degree toe lift. My friend had the same experience with size, he went from 26.5 RC 10 to 27.5 ABS and he is happy now. UPZ sizing is rather dubious. For me it was $800 mistake.

[Aracan]

Hm. The flo liners worked fine for me. I wore them at home for a few hours, because the flo material conforms to your foot when warm up. Now my liners are pretty much shot and I will probably replace them with Palaus since I hear good things about those and they are much cheaper than replacement stock liners.

 

To get back to your question: Your shell is definitely long enough. You say that the liners "cramp your toes". Do you mean from the side or from the front?

 

If the boots (with liners in them) feel too short, I would give them a chance on the hill. Knock your heels in properly, and you should be good.

If they feel too narrow, you might want to try the Track 700, which is said to be wider in front (not that I can confirm that, though). The stock UPZ liner is already very thin around the toes, so there is not much margin for error there.

[teach]

I've used Deeluxe AF in sizes 30, 29 and 28 and currently use UPZ RC10 in 28 (really, UPZ shell 312mm with 9 1/2 Flo liner). The UPZ has more toe room for me than the 28 Deeluxe with Intuition Powerwrap liner. The UPZ shell feels a little more spacious there where I need it as I have a wide forefoot, more or less Greek shape (see Queequeg's post in another of your threads). My feet are 28.9 - 29.6 cm depending on how I measure, and the RC10s work well for me. Nothing else has.

 

The Flo liners seem very high quality to me, better than the liners in high-end ski boots like Lange RS140. They're fairly adjustable and it can be really critical to get them set up right. Tongue position and the instep pads can make a lot of difference. If the edge of the tongue runs along an artery or nerve that can cause problems.

 

But just because a liner is good quality doesn't mean it works for you.

 

What size liners are yours? UPZ makes three liner sizes per shell. The 312mm shell can take UPZ 8 1/2, 9, or 9 1/2.

 

You need to let your feet settle in to the boots. I put mine on at the car, walk to where I'm going to clip in, and by then usually everything is good and I buckle up. Sometimes it takes a run before this happens. At first they do feel a little tight, but once things are settled in I'm good for all day, no need to ever unbuckle, very comfortable.

[Chouinard]

Are you using a footbed when trying the liners?

[Corey]

My low-volume high/rigid-arch foot measures 28.2 cm.  I tried Deeluxe 28s - feet were swimming in every direction.  Then I tried Deeluxe 27s - feet were swimming side to side and heels lifting, but toes smashing into end (almost lost both big toenails).  Then I tried UPZ 27s - snug fit all around, feet were cold and numb and toes were sore, but not as bad as with Deeluxe boots.  Then I tried UPZ 28s - I was stunned at how much bigger the shell was!  Heels still held down, but feet didn't hurt at the end of the day.  

 

All were with thermo liners molded to my feet and the shell.  

[1xsculler]

Using stock UPZ footbed liners.

 

I'm still at a loss as to the advantage of hard snowboard boots over my extremely comfortable rear entry Solomon SX-91 Equipe ski boots.  Toe and heel overhang is no problem at 55/50.  Flexible forward lean is about the same in either boot.  What's better about hard snowboard boots? 

[queequeg]

I'm still at a loss as to the advantage of hard snowboard boots over my extremely comfortable rear entry Solomon SX-91 Equipe ski boots.  Toe and heel overhang is no problem at 55/50.  Flexible forward lean is about the same in either boot.  What's better about hard snowboard boots? 

 

 

I can't tell if this is meant to be tongue-in-cheek humor or not :p

 

How wide is your board, and what do you consider to be acceptable overhang??? I would imagine that at 50 degrees and rear-entry ski boots at the equivalent of MP28 you would have substantial overhang, unless you are riding a garage door. 

 

Otherwise, It's been centuries since I put on a rear entry ski-boot but I do recall a sloppy fit - which would definitely be a problem for alpine snowboarding. I can't remember how stiff they were, fore-aft but I know that modern ski boots are much stiffer than alpine snowboard boots, generally. I do recall that this kind of boot was (as-you-say): extremely comfortable; in the sense that they are not a particularly high-performance fit.

 

Otherwise: I do find that the stock UPZ liner is better discarded in favor of a heat-molded liner.

Edited March 23, 2016 by queequeg

[Corey]

If you already have the boots, it costs nothing to try them!  The bindings that work for those boots will also work for any future boot purchase if you decide the boots don't work.  There are many people riding ski boots on alpine boards, some with modifications and some without.  

 

I rented some big Nitro board in the early 90's with rear-entry rental ski boots and plates.  Sadly, I don't remember a thing about the whole experience other than they were a LOT stiffer than the soft boots that I normally rode.  

[Allee]

Pull the liners out of your old ski boots, throw them in the UPZ's, and see how they feel then. Buckle them on, walk around some, and watch TV in them for half an hour. Could be that the Flo's just don't work with the shape of your feet, which is a common complaint.

 

"shrug" If you're leery about spending $800 on boots that might not work (and let's face it, it's an expensive mistake) and you want to ride in ski boots, then get yourself a comfortable pair of modern boots and use them. SB boots are usually going to be better, because of the specific flex and lean, but I rode ski boots for my first three seasons and they worked just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aracan]

 

Flexible forward lean is about the same in either boot.

The SX91 must be a lot softer than the Nordica 7-something, although the SX91 was marketed as higher-performance, and a lot more expensive.

Also, why would it be a $ 800 mistake? The RC10 costs less than $ 800, and even if they don't fit, they would still be worth something.

[Corey]

Corey-

Which Deeluxe model did you try?

413s, then Track 700. Don't remember the year, all white shells with red tongues/buckles.