UPZ RC10 Tuning

[st_lupo]

Lets see how many UPZ threads we can get going at once?

 

Last year I had my hands full just learning the basics of hardbooting and I didn't even want to think about my equipment setup.  As a result, the principles guiding my setup were pretty basic: bootout dictated the binding angles, shoulder width dictated the stance width, and comfort dictated the boot setup (basically the fore/aft lean angle).  I've now got a somewhat solid (albeit rudimentary) skill base to draw from and I am starting to re-evaluate my hardware setups to improve performance (where for my money performance is measured by reliably maximizing centripetal acceleration during the turns;  I guess this boils down to angulation) .

 

The RC10s have more screws and twiddly bits that I know what to do with and was wondering if somebody might supply some guidance on more advanced tuning.  Probably important for the discussion are my stance angles (65/60) and board type: SL (F2 Silberpfeil).  As of tonight I think I've got my fore/aft lean angles set right with one click forward lean on my front foot (ie one click where the metal "spine" on the back of the boot starts to show)  and two clicks forward lean on my back foot.  This seems to "feel" right in that it forces me to get a low stance on the board and offers a good balance between left side and right side carving performance.  The cost is that my front leg (left) gets completely wrung out after just two or three runs.  All of my joints feel fine though.  Is this typical?

 

The other main adjustments: those  cams on the ankles and spring/tongue stiffness; I have absolutely no idea how to approach them.  At my binding angles, is it event worth futzing around with the ankle cams?  How do I identify if the boots are setup too soft or too hard?  I can relate from experience that snowboard specific hard boots are superior to soft boots for carving, but I really have no clue why even stiffer ski boots are worse?  

 

Thanks for any help or rules of thumb for setting up the boots.

[ExcelsiorTheFathead]

Mr. Beckmann would probably say to not mess with the ankle cams for canting unless you are sure that you are compensating for some kind of serious bow-leggedness or other weird skeletal thing.  I leave mine in the zero position.  It is said that UPZs have a high ramp compared to other boots, so depending on the person more toe lift at high angles can be helpful.  I currently ride only skwals now and have more toe lift in front than heel lift in back.  I lock my front cuff in an upright-ish position and lock my rear cuff with more of a forward angle.

 

When I first started hardbooting I thought that stiffer was better but gradually changed my mind.  I switched to soft red tongues and made the springs in back looser.  I recently got new liners that dramatically made my cuff flex softer, so I tightened up the springs.  Some people like to clamp down their cuff buckles super tight, but I like them only modestly so.  In the end it is entirely personal and occasional experimentation with different settings can be eye opening.

 

Edit: I agree that bootout (board width) mostly dictates angles, but shoulder width perhaps doesn't mean anything.  Stance width is entirely personal and is one of those things open to broad experimentation.  Also, use the hash mark that is molded into the shell to center the boots over the binding rather than eyeball the positions of the toe and hell blocks.  Because of the forward heel, centering based on the positions of the toe and heel blocks will be way off.  A neutral set-up should have have the heel blocks visibly closer to center.

Edited January 6, 2016 by ExcelsiorTheFathead

[Corey]

Yup, the side cams are for cant adjustment. I haven't played with those yet. Set the springs at the back tighter or looser per personal taste.

I found that increasing my front binding toe lift kept my front quad happy. I'm running a 6-degree toe lift and love it. Otherwise it felt like I was always pushing my foot down a slippery slope away from me.

I've found that I like increase the forward lean by one click on my back foot for 19cm waist board, but leave it neutral for 20-22cm boards. I don't understand, but it feels right so I don't question it.

If you're fighting your boot cuffs instead of them supporting you in your efforts, change something.

[AcousticBoarder]

I have actually messed with the boot canting a bit. I have the cuffs angled in a bit so I am fighting the boot less. If you are like me, read Beckmann's website multiple times so you can actually grasp the concepts. (http://beckmannag.com/hardboot-snowboarding/hardboot-binding-configuration). Mess with some stuff, but I would recommend only changing one thing at a time. That way you know if it helped or hindered. In the end, do what feels right. Also, Pain in the knees/ just below usually means side canting is off.

[kieran]

stance angles (65/60) and board type: SL (F2 Silberpfeil).

 

i have this same setup, though i run at 65/70 with widest possible stance and max toe/heel lift on f2 intecs.

 

using the cuff canting thingies, i have them set to give maximum cuff height (same on both sides). my front boot cuff is as upright/back as possible, and the rear boot cuff is 'just so'.

when carpet carving i aim to have just a little more pressure on my front shin than on the rear when upright.

[Beckmann AG]

Call it what you like, but cuff alignment is not canting.

http://beckmannag.com/alpine-skiing/alignment/06-cuff-anglecontour

 

(More boot information under the 'Alpine Skiing' header).

 

 

This seems to "feel" right in that it forces me to get a low stance on the board and offers a good balance between left side and right side carving performance.  The cost is that my front leg (left) gets completely wrung out after just two or three runs.  All of my joints feel fine though.  Is this typical?

 

 

Typical, yes. Appropriate, no.

Many riders new to the game mistakenly think that they have to get down in the gutter in order to ride well.  

If you're putting that much load on the front leg at this stage, you're sacrificing accuracy of movement and the opportunity to learn finesse in favor of fashion.

While your stance will (d)evolve with skill development, you should start out with something that allows you to rest most of the load on your bones, reserving the tension meat for input/guidance.

[lordmetroland]

tension meat

 

I'm reporting you to the moderators.

[st_lupo]

Thanks everybody for the feedback!  I think I'll leave the ankle cams alone until I get the forward lean of the cuffs sorted out.  

 

Carving seems to be a fickle beast... Tonight I started with the forward lean adjustments that got me grooving last time and... it just wasn't doing it for me tonight.  I was counter rotating all over the place and back-seat driving a lot.  I thought about Beckmann's "tense meat" post and tried setting my cuffs one click more upright to get out of the gutter.  Boom! toe side carves locked in and the heel side didn't suffer. I think I was still going to the gutter but I was getting there through a different body position than before; leaning forward (towards the tip of the board) at the waist.  I felt more in the "cockpit" that way (what do you think of that Metroland?), and had better symmetry in my heel-side and toe-side turns.  I was definitely starting to feel something like a cross-through (or maybe cross-under) on some transitions, but being able to do it reliably is incredibly elusive.  

 

Anyway snow was awesome tonight, winter has finally come to this little corner of Norway!