purpletiesto Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I may jump into a Nirvana Balance Torsion with a p-tex top sheet, vCam if possible. This would literally be fully loaded. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCrobar Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Hello I am a bit surprise that more guys aren't recommending the All Mountain Coiler. Can anyone comment on the rider difference between the Nirvana and the All Mountain? It is my understanding that the Nirvana Balance and the All Mountain have a similar feel/flex/ride. I am most curious about the edge hold of the two in harder snow conditions. Variable Sidecut Radius What makes a guy decide to select a VSCR with two (ie 11/13 scr) versus three (ie 10.5/12.7/12m scr) radii when buying a Coiler? The 10.5/12.7/12m scr averages out to 11.7m and the 11/13 averages out to 12m ..... so do they turn similar or very different; assuming most other variables, length, width, flex, etc. are the same? It seems that 3 sidecuts gives you more variety in the turn size you can make; has anyone been to the demo tent enough to comment? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Rob Edited February 23, 2015 by RCrobar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Blanz Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I rode the triple sidecut model. It seemed that Bruce was trying to get a board which would initiate a turn easier from the tip. On firm snow or ice it could be advantageous to have a metal board with a tighter radius tip. I was real impressed with how tight I could turn it if I powered up the nose..and I'm talking about riding on the firmest snow (which for Aspen is the bottom of Highlands typically). I also like to finish my turns to the variable radius boards are not to my liking these days..back in the day when I raced that would have been great...but I like energy off the tail not a slow release and uber acceleration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Hello Can anyone comment on the rider difference between the Nirvana and the All Mountain? It is my understanding that the Nirvana Balance and the All Mountain have a similar feel/flex/ride. I am most curious about the edge hold of the two in harder snow conditions. Variable Sidecut Radius What makes a guy decide to select a VSCR with two (ie 11/13 scr) versus three (ie 10.5/12.7/12m scr) radii when buying a Coiler? The 10.5/12.7/12m scr averages out to 11.7m and the 11/13 averages out to 12m ..... so do they turn similar or very different; assuming most other variables, length, width, flex, etc. are the same? It seems that 3 sidecuts gives you more variety in the turn size you can make; has anyone been to the demo tent enough to comment? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Rob I recall Bruce telling me that the Nirvana evolved from the All Mountain. I rode both 2 years ago at SES and they were very similar except that the All Mountain was 168cm and wider waist (21cm?) and the Nirvana balance was 174cm with 20cm waist, so the bigger board had a smoother ride. I bought a Nirvana Balance and later sold it as it really seemed optimized for soft snow (think Aspen) conditions. It really is a great all around board in a wide variety of conditions, and fine on icy hard, but not as solid as a "race" board. I ride mostly on Minnesota firm ( hard and often icy), so I had a REV made with a 11-12scr and love it. Now I want to talk to Sean and/or Bruce about making a big brother for it. I can't comment on Bruce's multi sidecut boards. My Nirvana had a 12-14m scr. I have demoed others and not sure I can tell the subtle difference between triple, double or progressive sidecuts of similar size range with just a demo ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeseomatic Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I just got off the phone with Bruce and he says that the tighter radius in the tail helps complete a turn vs. turn early and accelerate down the hill of the progressive or two radius boards. I have a Donek Rev with a 14-20m side-cut and it absolutely does not complete a turn, My Donek Metal FC with a 12-14m side-cut will complete a turn, but not as good as my tri-radius Coiler or my single side-cut boards Edited February 24, 2015 by breeseomatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I've got an assortment of dual and tri-sidecut Coilers in my quiver. They are all different but rarely do I think to myself while riding "oh yeah this is a tri-sidecut" or "oh yeah this is a dual-sidecut". There are other characteristics of my various boards that are more obvious. For instance I have no trouble getting my 14/17 NSR to finish turns and I have no trouble getting my 14/20/17 NSR to not finish turns... the same could be said about my 12/14 Nirvana Energy and my 10.5/12.7/12 VSR. The only time I really notice the difference is if I get way back on the tail... the tri-sidecut boards ridden from that position tend to dump a little speed while the dual-sidecut do not. I rarely make a turn that way so in the end, little difference. @bigwavedave: Yep, I'd agree with your characterization of the Nirvana Balance. The Nirvana Energy is an entirely different animal... my 174 is the best board I've ridden on ice. (Plenty of data points... the NW gets real ice in spring and in low-snow years such as this one... yeah, I've been on an admittedly well-used original Madd 158.) The Nirvana V-Cam I tried a few SES's ago was yet different, feeling more like a really turn GS deck. @breesomatic: Careful with the "Balance plus V-cam" idea... part of what makes a Balance so easy-going... as well as friendly in bumpy or soft snow... is the low camber. The V-Cam has a higher camber in the cambered section (middle), more akin to the Energy. If you take the low camber of the balance and then add V-Cam I'd have to imagine the result would be rather lethargic and not very much fun for carving carving groomers. Would probably be more like a really skinny hybrid rocker/camber powder deck. Of course I could be totally wrong, best to ask Bruce... I've seen you ride enough to suspect that you want something with some life to it. Honestly if you want "all-mountainy, carvy, and a kick in the pants" all in one package, the Monster 2 is what I'd recommend... but then you're talking an additional 10cm over a Nirvana which violates your length constraints and makes it more work in *certain* AM situations like firm bumps. The Monster and Nirvana Balance both have elements of the AM flex pattern in them... the Nirvana Energy is sort of a cross between the Nirvana Balance and the longer Angry... the Monster is a big AM/FC board that can, amazingly, both surf off piste and EC on the groom. The Monster might just be the most versatile of the bunch for those who are comfortable with long boards. My Coiler alpine boards and how I tend to ride them: 183 NSR w/ plate (14/17 sidecut): GS racing, excels on poor grooming, ice, firmer hero groom - anything where there's a firm base possibly covered with crud, regardless of groom quality. Horrible in true off-piste situations or anywhere where contact with the firm base is lost. Fast. 180 NSR+ (14/20/17) "Angrry 180" (I call it that because it rides very much like a Madd 180 was described to me...) Smooth groom of any consistency, as long as something reasonably firm lies underneath. Big turns, but has a much more freecarvy than racy feel. Lots of pop, and edge-air-edge. Very precise. Fast. 184 Monster 2 (12.7/15/14): The most versatile carver in my quiver. Feels like I could wrap it around a telephone pole... very bendy, very forgiving. Holds its own on really firm snow but excels in warmer temps and variable snow. Great off-piste in open windpack, slush, corn. When carving, I probably get lower on this board than any other... EC, Pureboarding style both doable. Moderate speeds (but can do slow and fast with relatively little coaxing). 174 Nirvana Energy (12/14): My go-to board for firmer groom and ice. A ton of fun on any groomed run... while it truly shines on "just this side of ice", it's a boatload of fun on any groomer. Lots of pop, edge-air-edge. Very easy to tighten turns on. Not quite as versatile as the Monster but more energetic, more fun, when the snow is less variable. Holds its own on soft groomers but doesn't excel on them like the Monster does. Moderate speeds - carves slowly very well, capable but not excellent at higher speeds. Doesn't require constant attention... but it definitely rewards you for being "on". 170 VSR (10.5/12.7/12): Not as grippy, fun, poppy, easy to ride as the Nirvana... but fun nonetheless. Slow to moderate speed carves. Not as good on really hard or really soft snow as the Nirvana. Fun to get back on the tail and play with the trip-radius sidecut when I'm in the mood. 161 SL (not sure dual or tri-sidecut, average 10m) SL racing and when I feel like riding something super-turny. My most difficult board to ride... requires precise inputs or it starts to run away. The only SL board I've really enjoyed. Does have some pop on edge changes but not like the Nirvana. If I could do it over I would have gotten an even turnier Angry 160 instead... since I seem to SL race about once every two years... I have ridden pretty much all the models listed on coiler.com although certainly not in all sizes... if I had a Coiler shopping spree at my disposal I would get: 1) Clone of my Nirvana Energy for when mine becomes a rock board 2) Clone of my Monster for when mine becomes a rock board 3) Angrry 160 with tightest sidecut Bruce thinks is wise The Nirvana clone would win just 'cause my Monster is newer and has less mileage :) Edited February 24, 2015 by Mike T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Guy... Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 @breesomatic: Careful with the "Balance plus V-cam" idea... part of what makes a Balance so easy-going... as well as friendly in bumpy or soft snow... is the low camber. The V-Cam has a higher camber in the cambered section (middle), more akin to the Energy. If you take the low camber of the balance and then add V-Cam I'd have to imagine the result would be rather lethargic and not very much fun for carving carving groomers. Honest question- have you ever sighted down any Kesslers, and if so, where would they fall in regards to having a lot or a little camber? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeseomatic Posted February 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Mike, that's some amazing info there! I talked to Bruce and he said something about the Nirvana vCam and Torsion+ might be the new hot ticket. Lots of edge hold from the T+ treatment and easy to slide because of the rocker in the nose and tail. I'll have to inquire about a slightly shorter Monster, how wide is your Monster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonPablo Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 170 Angrry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) @breesomatic, my Monster is 21 wide. The other decks I mentioned are 20 wide or very close. I'd definitely take a demo ride a Torsion Plus V-Cam if given the opportunity! Having said that I've tried a few examples of Torsion Plus Energy, and I like mine better (without it). My NSR+/Angrry 180 has a healthy dose of Torsion Plus and on that board I love it. @That Guy - I've never bothered to look at a Kessler's camber, but I have ridden a few 180's and 185's over the years. If I had to guess I would think "rather little camber". None of them were in any way boring... if only because they were fast 0 - 60 ;-) but I'm also not sure I'd want that same ride in a freecarver that's meant for tighter turns and lower speeds. I could be wrong of course! Edited February 25, 2015 by Mike T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf Quebec Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) I have my nirvana energy 170 12/14 since november 2012 and love it. I asked Bruce for a board with maximum edge hold for the Quebec hardpack snow/ice and this is what he built. He made it a bit softer to better handle the hardpack snow. Edited February 26, 2015 by Surf Quebec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) Tthe 168 AM VSR, most versatile board I own. Took it in extreme bumps at Snowbird, carves the steeps, and plays really well in spring or variable snow condish. If its a day of cruising the mountain with a diverse group some carve some not this is the board Im comfortable on no matter what the trail. If its just a carve day on groomers Im riding my 177 VSR Freecarve the cousin of Nirvana but lately I have put it away around lunch and went to the AM due to its versatility. A review I did a while ago here, http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/36596-coiler-amt-vsr-168-asym-core/ Edited February 28, 2015 by Bobby Buggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboater Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 I've been emailing Bruce and was recommended a Stubby 172 20w 13/14scr. The price is really tempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 I've been emailing Bruce and was recommended a Stubby 172 20w 13/14scr. The price is really tempting. Fun board for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnasmo Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I talked to Bruce and he said something about the Nirvana vCam and Torsion+ might be the new hot ticket. Lots of edge hold from the T+ treatment and easy to slide because of the rocker in the nose and tail. We can give lots of advice, but in the end, the best advice is probably to listen to Bruce. He's been playing with T+ for few years now, and if he thinks combining T+ with vCam is the best way to accentuate the positive aspects while minimizing the negative aspects, then that would be the hot ticket. We've had a lot more icy days in Whitefish this winter since a rain event hit the hill while I was at SES. It still hasn't recovered three weeks later. When so little edge hold is available, you can't push too hard, so it helps to be on a board that is willing to stay decambered while you complete turns. I.e. a fairly balanced flex and not too stiff. My Monster 185 has been good for that, and I imagine the lastest generation Stubby would do well too. Nevertheless, I still find myself grabbing my latest Nirvana more than anything else, and I think it would generally be considered a Nirvana balance T+. It feels more racy and exiting on hero snow, but can still be reigned in enough to be delicate on the boilerplate. I'm not sure the energy version is willing to be as delicate. So I'm with Bruce on this -- recommending Nirvana vCam T+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsiorTheFathead Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 I opened a CAD balance in my PayPal account and am stashing a little money away for a possible future purchase from somewhere in the Great White North. PayPal takes a percentage for the currency exchange but I don't think it it much worse than what an ATM would take. It is always risky trying to second guess exchange rates, but I think that I'd rather lock in a decent value now. I might stash some Euros away as well. If Euros hit 1:1 parity, that would be something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Exchange rates, taxes , customs duty and a $9.95 customs handling charge and $74.53 in extra taxes on top of the cost of the goods shipping and insurance brought an initial $ 350.00 dollar US purchase to a grand total of $599.56 Canadian. Buy up folks Canada is officially " For Sale" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsiorTheFathead Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Maybe I should seriously consider going to Sunshine Village or Sun Peaks next winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) We can give lots of advice, but in the end, the best advice is probably to listen to Bruce. He's been playing with T+ for few years now, and if he thinks combining T+ with vCam is the best way to accentuate the positive aspects while minimizing the negative aspects, then that would be the hot ticket. .... I'm not sure the energy version is willing to be as delicate. So I'm with Bruce on this -- recommending Nirvana vCam T+. I can see how a VCam T+ would work well... but in all fairness to the Energy, it's insanely grippy on firm to icy snow... so long as the board in question is not too stiff for the rider. My own Energy is supple and compliant under my feet. Some of the other Energy boards I've tested and/or demoed have been stiffer and I didn't do as well on firm/icy snow on them. From the Coiler website: NIRVANA ENERGY This version gets a higher camber with adjusted flex pattern to deliver its responsive ride. The Energy flex pattern is biased to be more rear stiff and front soft. This increases turn response along with turn exit energy and does not require excessive nose pressuring to get the job done. Ideal for more skilled riders who prefer a centered riding style and can use the softer nose flex to their advantage on steep or icy hills. Grip on the Energy is exceptional on firm or icy snow, where it excels. This has been precisely my experience with my Energy... I've had it for three seasons. If you watch SES videos you'll see that johnasmo's riding is more fluid and flowy than mine, where I tend to be more aggro and top-of-the-turn heavy... I suspect that our differing thoughts and observations on the energy have to do with the differences in our riding habits. I would argue that the Energy doesn't require one to be as delicate on harder snow... it has so sufficient bite and grip that you can ride it harder. Edited March 7, 2015 by Mike T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeseomatic Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Nirvana 174 VCam Torsion Plus, UPM and P-Tex top sheet, 12/14 SCR. I'll give a first impression report when I ride it next year. It's kind of like a form of torture to have a new board on the way, only to realize you can't ride it for the next 6 months. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 @breesomatic, can't wait to hear how she rides! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 17, 2015 Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Why the Ptex top sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeseomatic Posted March 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2015 Why the Ptex top sheet I'm not a board engineer at all, here is my rationalization: The closer you can get to a mirrored image of construction, for example: p-tex, metal, rubber, carbon, wood core, carbon, rubber, metal, p-tex (not sure if that is the proper order) then the board will have nearly the same thermal expansion and contraction above and below the core, behaps the camber and energy will be the same on a 50 degree spring day vs 0 degree winter day. Now I ride okay, however, I can not even hold my own when in the company of Mike T, John Gibson, Dave, Corey, et al so I likely wouldn't notice any difference. I've been told that a p-tex top sheet board is more damp. Truthfully, the more damp it is I think I feel a better ride quality. I'm not good enough to control a poppy board, a little bit of chatter is like throwing a wrench in my rusty gears, so I'll take any percieved advantage I can get. I have one board that is a plain black p-tex topsheet, bought from Art (excelsior) and for some reason, I really like the look. I took it in to a shop for some base repair and they commented on how they could run it through the belt to freshen the top if I wanted. That was kind of cool, and they even put a coat of wax on top. It looks brand new, you can't even tell a skier rode over the top of it. So longevity of finish is a concern. Honestly, this is my primary consideration. I have a Donek with a bad ass carbon flame gloss coat and I am just paranoid to hell in the lift lines. I'm always positioning myself and sending out eye daggers to anyone who gets within 10ft of the board. The stress level to keep it looking nice is just too great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Buggs Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Wont Torsion + be a Poppy board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breeseomatic Posted March 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Wont Torsion + be a Poppy board I was told it does put some energy back into the board as Torsion + resists twisting, however, it's addition to "pop" energy is much less than the Energy core. Torsion + also add weight to the board, so the weight may counteract the energy released at the end of the turn. I also watched this video: This rider's style and abilities are pretty close to mine, he's a little better and it doesn't look like a poppy board to me. We'll see if it rides good next year. Edited March 18, 2015 by breeseomatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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