piusthedrcarve Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I use F2 Race Titanium bindings (Large), UPZ RC10 boots. Usual stance (center or half inch forward on front and center on back) Regular (left foot forward) Front binding: 63 degree, No toe lift, Cant: one cant wedge inward Rear binding: 60 degree, Heel lifted, Cant: one cant wedge inward No bias. (means distances between front bail from center and real bail from center are same) I have configured as above and sticked with probably more than 2 seasons. I would say I was dialed in. So far for this season, I rode alpine board 3 times . And all of those time, board tends to turn heelside. it's not slight favoring heelside, rather heavily. In example, to get off from lift chair, I had to put some effort to discharge straight. Otherwise, it turns heel side. When I ride, of course heelside turn favored. It was hard to initiate toe side turn. Of course, speed help... and... kinda old way (putting behind knee into inside of front leg) does the trick but that's not how I ride any more. I have other set of bindings that are configured same way and tried today. Same result.. What may could gone wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Read the thread Gilmor bias and keep turning screws every ones set up differs in some small way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 You checked that setup is as above after summer break, right? And you checked that front and rear binding have not swirced place (cantings). Did you checked that you boots are locked as you normally ride? I made this error on first day and was just wondering whole day why it is so hard to ride. Next thing that comes to my mind is that board could have burr on edge, but if this is on two boards it is quite unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsiorTheFathead Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 How about this: You mention that you set up the toe and heel bails to be equidistant from the center of the bindings. But since you are riding in UPZs which have an inset heel compared to other boots, you may in fact be shifted towards the toe on both feet, thus making you more tippy towards the heelside. Before you try and implement any kind of bias, try to make sure your boots are actually centered in the bindings as a starting point. The UPZ boots have a small line molded into the lower part of the side of the boot to indicate the center of the foot. I think that the most neutral starting point is to set up the bails so that point on the boots lines up exactly with the center of the bindings. Of course, this doesn't account for why you feel a change from previous seasons. It also doesn't account for how I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe you got 1 year older like the rest of us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Confirm that your toes and heels are over their respective edges. As Excelsior said, the UPZ heels are very far forward. I had that exact issue when switching from Deeluxe boots to UPZs. For reference; my front foot heel piece is as far forward as possible on my Bomber step-in Sidewinders with size 27 UPZs. I still have a bit of underhang on the toes of the front foot. I'd also suggest removing the cants from one foot at a time, and then adding more. It also doesn't account for how I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe you got 1 year older like the rest of us? I laughed a bit too much at this! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Read the thread Gilmor bias and keep turning screws every ones set up differs in some small way. lowrider, I had set my bindings as Gilmour bias for few years and understood the concept by adjusting bails to maximize decambering center of boards. After realizing the cause & effect, I was able to ride without any bias just fine (except last 2 times). I considered to apply Gilmour bias on slopes but didn't. I wanted to hear from BOL gurus if I miss simple thing before. Thanks though, always. Happy New Year. How about this: You mention that you set up the toe and heel bails to be equidistant from the center of the bindings. But since you are riding in UPZs which have an inset heel compared to other boots, you may in fact be shifted towards the toe on both feet, thus making you more tippy towards the heelside. Before you try and implement any kind of bias, try to make sure your boots are actually centered in the bindings as a starting point. The UPZ boots have a small line molded into the lower part of the side of the boot to indicate the center of the foot. I think that the most neutral starting point is to set up the bails so that point on the boots lines up exactly with the center of the bindings. Wow, I went through the practice when I first got UPZ boots. and kinda forgot about it. I will do that and try. Thanks! Of course, this doesn't account for why you feel a change from previous seasons. It also doesn't account for how I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe you got 1 year older like the rest of us? Ditto, That's why I'm asking this to old folks like you. Happy New Year, Art~ (you just got an year older today, in oriental calendar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsiorTheFathead Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think I had it backwards. Equidistant placement of toe/heel blocks will tend to shift you to the heel with UPZs? That would likely make you heel-heavy and make it harder to initiate toeside. I think. I wear MP 26 RC-10s, and with most bindings built around a center disk I end up with the heel block way forward compared to the toe block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have had a similar problem. I think in my case it's a matter of joint alignment and the body seeking its preferred setup. I find that I'm often on the outsides of my feet, in order (I think) to get proper knee alignment. I use some footbeds built up under the ball of the foot to help, and outward canting on my bindings. This doesn't completely solve the problem, as I'm still weighting the outsides of my feet when neutral. That produces a twist in the board. My more torsionally stiff boards don't cooperate, and I wind up going heelside (and the heelside-to-toeside transition requires huge commitment). I've noticed this for a while, but last spring Eric Beckmann had a session at Stratton where he connected the dots for me with one-footed riding. I'm not saying you have the same joint issues I do, but the inward canting you run may be producing a similar situation. You get used to it as the season goes on and compensating becomes second nature, but when you start fresh it takes a while to figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Sounds frustrating understanding the principals and not be able to dial in what you want. Don't know your age but I know first few times out not everything clicks. You mention it's worst discharging from the chair. On my Skwal it requires some real effort to go left or straight (I ride goofy) and undo the front binding to load on chair.(closeness of binding do not allow enough room to undo rear foot). On icy conditions it's even tougher Can you get some pics of your riding or have someone follow and critique your method ? Are you tense or relaxed. Find someone whose riding style you like and follow their form see if it works for you. Challenge yourself, push you comfort level and see if you body responds. I don't long board but perhaps someone who does would be able to translate the cause and effect of balance on the issue you have. A predominant heel side turn on a regular rider tells me your weight is either left of centre on the board or forward of centre front to back. Is you board perfectly flat or did someone store the cars spare tire on it in the garage ? Good New Years puzzle let us know how you make out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 worth remembering that the high heel on UPZ will also give you a lot of built-in heel lift.to get anywhere close to balanced turn initiation i want my front footbed to be at least flat, and i find using enough toe lift to achieve that makes me want to move my rear binding one insert set further rearwards to compensate. it's a bit like doing a rubiks cube, in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted January 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think I had it backwards. Equidistant placement of toe/heel blocks will tend to shift you to the heel with UPZs? That would likely make you heel-heavy and make it harder to initiate toeside. I think. I wear MP 26 RC-10s, and with most bindings built around a center disk I end up with the heel block way forward compared to the toe block. I just centered my boots on bindings. Then, Bail config is... like this. front bail in middle of bail rail and real bail all the way toward center. It seems right. Carpet testing doesn't reveal anything. I probably will be testing new config. next week. I will report it back. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 You checked that setup is as above after summer break, right? And you checked that front and rear binding have not swirced place (cantings). Did you checked that you boots are locked as you normally ride? I made this error on first day and was just wondering whole day why it is so hard to ride. Next thing that comes to my mind is that board could have burr on edge, but if this is on two boards it is quite unlikely. After taking advice from Fathead, I adjusted bails location based on boot center line. It seems right. Now, I remember I switched a baseplate last season and disassembled bindings entirely and .... probably didn't ride after and put away. As your suggestion, I checked my boots and didn't notice any boot cant change or lean from previous. Thanks though Pokkis. Sounds frustrating understanding the principals and not be able to dial in what you want. Don't know your age but I know first few times out not everything clicks. You mention it's worst discharging from the chair. On my Skwal it requires some real effort to go left or straight (I ride goofy) and undo the front binding to load on chair.(closeness of binding do not allow enough room to undo rear foot). On icy conditions it's even tougher Can you get some pics of your riding or have someone follow and critique your method ? Are you tense or relaxed. Find someone whose riding style you like and follow their form see if it works for you. Challenge yourself, push you comfort level and see if you body responds. I don't long board but perhaps someone who does would be able to translate the cause and effect of balance on the issue you have. A predominant heel side turn on a regular rider tells me your weight is either left of centre on the board or forward of centre front to back. Is you board perfectly flat or did someone store the cars spare tire on it in the garage ? Good New Years puzzle let us know how you make out ! Little frustrated because I know other way to initiate topside turn. Speed helps so rode fast. :) You know, less than 1000 vertical feet slopes on holiday weekend and with 5 years old daughter, I didn't want to spend time to adjust to dial in. Now, i think I got it by setting bail location based on boot center (thanks ExcelsiorTheFatHead). At least, the position looks familiar. Next time when I go up, I will make some detail adjustment to dial in again. Once I find it, I won't forget to mark it on the bindings (will bring white sharpie or something) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piusthedrcarve Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Yup. That was it. The Bail Block placement. Toeside turn was back and no heelside favor. Actually may need to move front foot bails toward heelside. Now really considering Red Loctite to immobilize the bail blocks once really dialed in. :). Thanks Art and all. Edited January 11, 2015 by piusthedrcarve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Now really considering Red Loctite to immobilize the bail blocks once really dialed in. :). Have your daughter mark the position with a paint pen, and maybe add a few racing stripes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comapedrosa Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Tried the Gilmour bias for the first time today based on this and older posts, and I was truly impressed! Auto-railings and deeper grooves!! Thank you all!! Edited January 12, 2015 by Comapedrosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticBoarder Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Can someone link me to the Gilmore Bias? I cant seem to find it in search... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Spelling counts, at least sometimes. This should get you started: http://forums.bomberonline.com/index.php?/topic/40762-gilmour-bias/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticBoarder Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 haha, auto-correct And with that I think I found it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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