permeated Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hi! If there is anything I love in life it is theory and analysis, especially when it comes to fun stuff like boarding! When combining over-thinking with riding exercises I find that progression can happen really fast! Lately though, something just hasnt added up in my mind... This post is probably gonna sound super silly, and hopefully someone can be help me understand where my thinking goes wrong! So! I am a regular footed rider. I put my left foot out when being pushed, push a skateboard with my left foot on the board, slide left foot first on a wooden floor, put my pants on starting with my left foot on the ground, etc etc etc. However, the more I think about the theory of snowboarding I have learned, the more I am starting to question whether my left foot should actually be my front one when I ride my snowboard. To me it seems like the universally most difficult part of a turn is at the bottom/end of the turn. This is when all the forces combine to try and pull you out of the turn, leading to fun problems such as chatter or skidding on the heelside. Now, if I have understood everything correctly, at the end of the turn you should have moved your weight aft on the board, having more weight on your rear foot to really dig that edge in. This is where my brain runs into problems. If it is the case that I, as a regular rider, have my greatest stability and balance using my left foot... Isnt it totally weird that I, during this most critical part of a turn, have most of my weight on my right foot? Am I not at this critical point relying mostly on my weakest foot for balance? I realize that when learning how to snowboard, initiating turns properly is very important, and riding regular when you are regular helps with this. But once turn initiation is good and the difficulty becomes turn complition, couldnt riding regular actually be holding you back as a regular rider? :p What would happen if a regular rider simply changed stances and starting riding goofy, until the point of being equally proficient both ways? Would turn completion become better at the expense of turn initiation, and would this lead to a more "symmetrical" riding experience with better flow? Sometimes the right movement you have to do to achieve something is very counter-intuitive to the body, but once you do it often enough and feel the difference, the body realizes and accepts the movements. Could it be that riding goofy is actually the right thing to do for a regular rider, and that spending the time (several seasons?) to re-wire your brain could actually help you in the end? If there is someone here riding for example a skateboard regular but a snowboard goofy, what do you figure your reason is for doing this? Am I being totally ridiculous here or what? Please dont hesitate to point out all the flaws in my crappy theories! No need to be humble. :o Cheers! /Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Front leg is the one that takes the pounding. How comfortable you feel and how well you balance will be determined by your brain. Think a board can confuse you try the narrow stance of a skwal. I think some people are more dominantly left or right footed for them it may be easier to tell what feels best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I put my left foot out when being pushed This does not matter. I push a skateboard with my left foot on the board, slide left foot first on a wooden floor, Then yes, you are regular. Snowboard regular. With which foot do you prefer to kick a football (soccer ball to us Americans)? May I guess your right foot? What does that say about your theory? I think some people could force themselves to learn to snowboard with the opposite stance*. I think probably most people can't. I remember trying a snowboard that was set up regular, before I realized I was goofy. I couldn't do a damn thing. When I finally tried a board set up goofy, I learned quickly. * About that "opposite stance"... once I tried setting up my freeride snowboard at about +5 and -5 degree binding angles. It was very easy to ride fakie this way, and switch back and forth. Then I tried setting it up with my usual angles (36/24) but regular. I couldn't ride it like that at all. I also saw a friend try to ride an alpine board set up with the opposite stance and high binding angles typical for alpine. He couldn't ride that way either. I think this is another pitfall of the current lazy trend for rental shops and instructors to set up beginners with a neutral duck stance. For those beginners who arrive to the lesson not knowing whether they are regular or goofy, it is too easy for them to feel "okay" snowboarding the wrong way, and not speak up. If the board is set up with a forward facing stance, it will become apparent that something is very wrong. Edited March 31, 2014 by Jack Michaud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Could it be that riding goofy is actually the right thing to do for a regular rider I'd say you're "right-footed" if there is such a thing; that is, you are using your right leg to do the harder work in the examples you cite. I agree with you that something seems a little fishy in riding with your strong leg in back. I've always wondered if people choose the strong leg to be the back one out of a sense that the back one is your support (sliding on ice) and you want it to be good. What I think is fishy is that I don't think riding a snowboard (or surfboard) is very much like sliding on ice. Your feet are both attached to the same board, and you need to learn to avoid leaning back and using your rear leg as support. So maybe it would be better the other way. As a beginner I went through a phase where riding right-foot-forward (switch for me as a regular-foot) was easier. Not sure why, but maybe to prevent skateboard reflexes from messing me up. I wonder how many right-footed riders ride goofy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 All the 'tests' and any activities I've previously done indicated I was goofy, so that's the way I set up my board when I first started riding (softies). My goal was to ride equally as well in both (switch & regular) directions as I always enjoyed that in skiing. When I started getting better, I realized I was riding 'equally as well in both directions', but they both suc-ed! I also noticed that when I rode my best it was 'switch'. I figured this was telling me I needed to change my stance and start riding 'regular' and have been riding that way ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeho730 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Regular = right foot foward Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 To me it seems like the universally most difficult part of a turn is at the bottom/end of the turn. This is when all the forces combine to try and pull you out of the turn, leading to fun problems such as chatter or skidding on the heelside. Now, if I have understood everything correctly, at the end of the turn you should have moved your weight aft on the board, having more weight on your rear foot to really dig that edge in. Are you really looking for an answer as to why you end up with problems keeping your edge engaged throughout the whole turn? If that is the question, then I suspect the answer lies elsewhere than changing your natural stance. Lots of points of view to be found on solving this across many Bomberonline threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'm definitely right footed and definitely goofy and can ride fakie all day tried opposite stance a couple times, kicked my azz, may try it again on a happy slush day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I have been teaching skiing and snowboarding this winter and I have a theory from what I have seen about why you have your dominant leg in front. I think its not necessarily that it is your stronger leg but it is the leg with more finesse. It seems to me we use our front leg to perform the more difficult and sensitive tasks while our rear leg is predominantly functioning with more gross movements. I noticed this with skiing a fair bit. Most people are able to lighten their inside foot easier turning one direction or the other. Generally its when they are lightening their inside foot. Which seemed odd initially because one would think it would be easier to balance solely on your dominant leg. What I'm guessing is that it is easier to catch yourself with your dominant leg lightened should you loose balance whereas we have less trust we can catch ourselves with our non-dominant leg. Or that may all be gibberish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'm right footed and ride regular. However I'm a bit ambi and my parents forced the right dominance on me, so I'd not read too much into that. Plus... windsurfing, I absolutely don't have a strong and a weak side. I one side to ride and can't see the point of switching, but I'm sure I could do it. For what it's worth, riding an alpine stance "the wrong way around" is obviously a trick, and like any other trick amusing once or twice, so arguably worth learning. If you have an absolutely symmetrical stance on a fore-aft symmetrical board ("true twin"), then I can't really see where the trick comes in. It seems about on par with the ability to turn a pair of skis to the right as well as to the left: hardly notable. For riding (windsurfer or snowboard), I think both legs should have their work cut out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 It is very complex, seems there are no rules... I'm right handed, my right eye is dominant, I kick a ball with right foot, jump of the left leg, had left forward karate stance as the kid... I quite like catching objects with left hand. I ride skateboard and snowboard goofy. I ride (beginner) surfboard goofy, but it seems that I have tendency to be regular?!? I can ride oposite alpine stance, but it looks very commical, worse then switch on my goofy alpine stance. When I ride (non-symmetrical) duck stance, switch is not quite as good as forward, but pretty good. On skis, my left turn is stronger then my right turn (not visible though), it might be due to some leg skeletal issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Regular = right foot foward Ummm, no... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Wanted just to add I have used both single ski water skiing and how you stand to bat a baseball as ways to help correlate a stance for some who have asked...it was Surfing that set my Skateboard and Snowboard stance way back in 1956...and it is were I know the term Goofy from which is Right foot forward :) though I be Regular :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Permeated, when I first began snowboarding (soft bindings, sorel boots :) ) I did all the tests and mostly tested regular. I was a telemark skier, so was also comfortable sliding in a goofy stance, but did seem to prefer regular. However, I had a small twist in my spine that would have been exacerbated by a regular stance, so I just set my board up goofy and that's how it's been ever since. No detriment that I can discern. No advantage either, except that the spinal twist is slightly less than it was 20 years ago. But maybe I'm weird - we can blame it on my Norwegian ancestry..... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Are you really looking for an answer as to why you end up with problems keeping your edge engaged throughout the whole turn? Currently I'm having issues with my toeside at high speeds. When I notice the front start to chatter out, it means I'm too far back. I immediately shift my weight forward and usually the chattering stops (if I'm not too far gone at that point). My point is that I have found the most success having my weight evenly distributed (50 front 50 back). Your theory is right for what you're experiencing: On the one hand, yes, if all the forces at the end of the turn were concentrated in the back foot, you'd probably want to have the most weight there to help with control. BUT, those forces shouldn't all be on the back foot - they should be evenly distributed. They are on the back foot because you're leaning back (presumably) and putting them there. As sunsurfer said there are a number of topics/exercises you can do to remedy this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeho730 Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) Ummm, no... Sorry it was an April fools day joke... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited April 4, 2014 by leeho730 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permeated Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Permeated, when I first began snowboarding (soft bindings, sorel boots :) ) I did all the tests and mostly tested regular. I was a telemark skier, so was also comfortable sliding in a goofy stance, but did seem to prefer regular. However, I had a small twist in my spine that would have been exacerbated by a regular stance, so I just set my board up goofy and that's how it's been ever since. No detriment that I can discern. No advantage either, except that the spinal twist is slightly less than it was 20 years ago. But maybe I'm weird - we can blame it on my Norwegian ancestry..... :D All the 'tests' and any activities I've previously done indicated I was goofy, so that's the way I set up my board when I first started riding (softies). My goal was to ride equally as well in both (switch & regular) directions as I always enjoyed that in skiing. When I started getting better, I realized I was riding 'equally as well in both directions', but they both suc-ed! I also noticed that when I rode my best it was 'switch'. I figured this was telling me I needed to change my stance and start riding 'regular' and have been riding that way ever since. Very interesting! Did you guys find that it took a long time to adjust to your new "opposite stance"? When you encounter difficult situations, do you ever feel your bodies wanting to revert back? How is your switch riding now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permeated Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) With which foot do you prefer to kick a football (soccer ball to us Americans)? May I guess your right foot? What does that say about your theory? I actually kick a football with my left foot... Screws with my head even more! :D Your theory is right for what you're experiencing: On the one hand, yes, if all the forces at the end of the turn were concentrated in the back foot, you'd probably want to have the most weight there to help with control. BUT, those forces shouldn't all be on the back foot - they should be evenly distributed. They are on the back foot because you're leaning back (presumably) and putting them there. As sunsurfer said there are a number of topics/exercises you can do to remedy this. I may be wrong, but every book on technique I've read has said that you should move your weight from front to aft throughout the turn, at least at more advanced levels (which use more angulation than inclination). Could it be that due to the angle of the slope, feeling like you are centered on the board actually means you have the majority of the weight on the rear foot at the end of the turn? Are you really looking for an answer as to why you end up with problems keeping your edge engaged throughout the whole turn? Well no not really, I know that part is technique related and can be improved. My purpose is to find out the inherent strengths and weaknesses of "opposite stance", to see if it could be worth the change. You see I have a similar problem to two_ravens; Basically both my knees/legs are twisted a few degrees to the right. This means that when I ride regular, my toesides are very powerful, but my heelsides are pretty bad. When I ride goofy, my heelsides are good, and my toesides are bad. But, due to heelside being a more difficult turn, this means that when regular I have one strong and one weak side, and when goofy I have two equal sides. This makes riding goofy feel much more symmetrical and flowy, albeit more difficult overall. This is why I'm trying to figure out if it's worth putting in the time and energy to make the switch, and if doing so lends other benefits to my riding. :) Thanks to all for putting up with my crazy-talk! Edited April 9, 2014 by permeated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_ravens Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Very interesting! Did you guys find that it took a long time to adjust to your new "opposite stance"? When you encounter difficult situations, do you ever feel your bodies wanting to revert back? How is your switch riding now? I don't think the goofy stance slowed me down - I was a slow learner for the first 3 years, but for other reasons. I have observed this: before boarding, my left leg was stronger and had better balance, and if I needed to do something that required dexterity (such as opening the door) I used my right foot while standing on the left. After a few years of soft booting, all this remained true. Now, after 7 seasons in hardboots, my right leg (front leg) is stronger than the left and has more stability when balancing (though in my mind I still have better balance on the left. ) I still use my right foot for dexterity. I did some sessions with a trainer and figured out that the muscles that got so much stronger in my front leg, and that contribute so much to balance, are gluteus medius and piriformis. As you note, one technique is to shift your weight from the front toward the back foot during a turn. But my front leg definitely gets more of a workout - I start my turns with my weight pretty far forward, and at the point of the turn where the forces are greatest my front leg still has more than 50% of the load. Weight shift happens for me as the forces are decreasing, as I am nearing the end of the turn and the edge change, and then I'm guessing the weight is close to equal just before the edge change. As for switch, I do little of that and it doesn't come naturally. I did set up 'opposite stance' (regular - what should have been my normal stance) for a day and really struggled! All I could really do was ride switch, so I was riding with my right leg forward again, though my toes were pointing backward.... It felt like it would take me three years to learn to ride opposite stance - natural tendencies aside, there seemed to be almost no carryover of skills from my normal stance. So.... which foot forward for you????? Go with whichever gives you the best carving experience. It's all about the ride.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 No & Never, I wouldn't even consider reverting back. Not that I'm a good rider, but I usually have a smile as big as anyones :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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