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coyoteposse

Deeluxe vs UPZ

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Now I'm thinking about getting a new pair of boots so I don't inherit someone else's mistake, or problem. Anyway, I see a lot of Deeluxe posts but not many about the UPZ. Your expert opinions would be appreciate.

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As much as I love how my UPZ boots fit my feet, it's easier/cheaper to run Deeluxe boots in North America. Parts are available from more sources, they fit bindings better if your feet are M28 or smaller, and they're easier to find used. Using an M27 UPZ boot, I can't quite get my forward foot's heel far enough forward to put my toes over the edge on a Bomber SI SW binding. I can with a basic TD3 SI though.

UPZ has a wide toe box and a narrow heel, while Deeluxe has a medium toe box and a wide heel. A good bootfitters can stretch a narrow toe box, but making a wide boot heel narrower is tough. That's what put me in UPZ.

Ride between a Deeluxe T700 (with Bomber's BTS) and a RC10 is quite similar. Get the one that fits your feet. Someone smart suggested ordering both brands, test fitting with a good local bootfitter, and returning the one that is less optimal. You'll lose shipping charges, but that's way cheaper than wasting a long time struggling with the wrong boot.

Ski boots are an option, but they're likely going to need some customization right off the start. Many/most people struggle with ski boots.

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Thanks for responding Corey,

I used to ride in the 90's so I'm familiar with getting boots that fit, especially ones where the heels don't ride up. I have L shaped feet. Not much of a top arch, so the heel support of the UPZ might be the better idea. I can probably find a boot fitter here in Mammoth to help with the fit. Which UPZ did you get? And really like them?

Mike

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I've got RC10s, and I really do like them. Well, the Intec heel location pisses me off hugely, but I just couldn't get my heels to stay down in the Deeluxe boots.

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Coyote, since you live in Mammoth, you should check out a pair of Dynafit TLT5's at Mammoth Mountaineering. The TLT5's are softer overall than Deeluxe (I don't know about UPZ). If you want the TLT5 to be softer than the stock setup, you can try this 5-minute, reversible mod http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?42170-Dynafit-TLT5-for-Carving-and-Powder.

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I've ridden both boots, i would pick my upz rc10s over my deeluxes any day. I ride six days a week training and racing, this is my second season on upz's and they haven't broken or busted once. 

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Boots have two parts, the outer shell and the inner boot.

Inner boots are more critical, well, a foam squishy innerboot isn't critical, but a foam injected, stiff tonged with orthotic underfoot innerboot is is a good start, the outer shell is just an outer shell.

Deluxe shells are very abundant in the cuff or sleeve, large calves required, UPZ and head are alike in that regular sized calves have no problem.

The problem with a large sleeve and a small calf is lots of movement, lots of friction.

UPZ overall shell length for the same size say 28 is shorter then delux or head, big plus for long feet or thin boards.

Head parts are problematic, UPZ parts are easily glommed from the Canadian rep, deluxe from Finn, deluxe don't tend to go tru buckles like UPZ, err, if you use UPZ save the frustration and get extra buckles, specifically the third buckle, lots of friction going on at that spot.

Edited by ursle

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I  feel that the UPZ boot does not work well if you are riding low angles- below 50 degrees. i rode my all mountain board with angles of about 45 and 30 and the UPZ boot is too stiff in the lateral direction with those angles. that is  a Pureboarding stance. that might be why the Pureboarding riders ride Deluxe boots? I have the virus UPZ boot with the stiffer black cuff. I will keep my UPZ boots if I decide to continue to ride my race boards as they work with angles of 50 and 45. You really notice the difference with those low angles as the boots feel like you are too locked down and are too stiff. nice to have a boot that works diffrently than Deluxe if that is what you want? the upz boots are supposed to be stiffer in the lateral direction.

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What tongues you have in your UPZs? My UPZs stock have lateral stiffness on par with a pair of Raichle 123s. The Black cuffs don't seem to do much other than look nice. The dark grey tongues will stiffen them up.

Unless there is something wrong with my boots, or smaller sizes use softer plastic, UPZs are as stiff as a slice of cheese.

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I've been using UPZ for several seasons now. Started with Deeluxe/Raichle in several sizes (M30,29,28) and shapes (SB and AF). I have a few comments on sole length and stiffness.

 

SOLE LENGTH

Here are some photos to illustrate the UPZ short sole length. I believe this feature is overrated. Here is a line-up of a Deeluxe Indy, UPZ RC10 and for comparison, a Dalbello CRX Freeride ski boot, all in size M28 (*).

post-2504-0-94932400-1423511581_thumb.jp

 

The BTS on the Indy protrudes beyond the rear of the other two boots (that's the 13" mark). If you remove the Indy you see that the UPZ and CRX have about the same front-to-back measurement. In other words, you could run these two boots at the same angles in order to avoid any boot drag up to a 90 degree edge angle.

 

post-2504-0-39291100-1423512026_thumb.jp

 

What about edge angles more like 75 degrees? The UPZ short sole does not help much here:

 

post-2504-0-86311900-1423511982_thumb.jp

 

You get about the same clearance from the Deeluxe. The UPZ's short sole only helps with substantially lower edge angles. And that's in firm conditions; if you sink in at all, even this goes away.

 

(*) UPZ shell sizing is in 12-14 mm increments, not 10 mm like Deeluxe and most ski boots (I think). There are _three_ "UPZ sizes" per shell. Therefore "Mondo sizing" -- "round your properly supported foot's length in cm down to the whole cm" -- can't work very well for UPZ. The shell here is the 312 mm and is for UPZ sizes 8.5, 9, and 9.5. The shell has about the same interior length as the Deeluxe Indy M28 and the Dalbello pictured.

 

STIFFNESS

The UPZ RC10s I have been using since the end of last season are a lot less stiff than the RTRs (older UPZ model) I had. So much so that I have no need to unlock the cuff to put on or take off the boots. Like slippers. Other than convenience, I'm indifferent to this. The new plastic is not much affected by temperature; the RTRs stiffened up a lot in 0 degree F conditions. I had a few epic struggles getting them off.

 

The RTRs were noticeably stiffer than the Deeluxe Indy pictured w/blue BTS. The RC10s may be comparable to the Indys here. It's been a long time so hard to say for sure.

 

The Flo liners contribute to the UPZ stiffness. If you use plain Intuition foam liners, you'll lose a lot. Don Pablo, try the Flos or the newer Intuition liners with stiffer tongue and no foam underfoot (Race, I think). The next step would be to try some RTRs (I think the Virus ones are RTRs or maybe RSVs).

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On upz RC-10 do you see a big difference on the flex bethewin the red tong and black one??

Edited by Québec man

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Yes! The red tongue is very soft. You can easily fold the corners with just a thumb and finger.

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I also put the red tongues onto the UPZ; for me using the rear spring system and correctly tensioning the buckles plus riding in a more centered style means I don't have an issue with the softer flex; I fine the red a bit soft and the black a bit stiff so better a little soft I think as I ride at medium speed now - if I was riding a longer stiffer board at higher speed I might prefer the black tongues.

 

The UPZ seems less temperature sensitive than some have said; I've used them in the balmy 100 degree heat in Thailand in my living room and in very cold temps in Japan and it seems like no real difference in flex (at least with the red tongues).

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The UPZ seems less temperature sensitive than some have said; I've used them in the balmy 100 degree heat in Thailand in my living room and in very cold temps in Japan and it seems like no real difference in flex (at least with the red tongues).

For the RC-10, agree 100%. Pretty amazing. Not true for older models, though.

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Just rode my UPZs today for the first time. They felt amazing! I bought them specifically because I have small heels (and feet for that matter...) and I always have heel lift, causing me pain. Practically no lift whatsoever on these!

 

But wow, what a pain to try and get them in the binding! (I am using standard TD1s btw.) Snow got stuck on the pads, and the heel bail kept moving off when I tried to buckle. Combo that with a small hill, and I think I will soon be in the market for step-ins. 

 

I have been in conversation with Beckmann and he had suggested I try putting my 6* cant in the front and 3 in the back (previously set up opposite) and it made a big difference too after I did that. The UPZs do have a steeper ramp to them than the Deeluxe do which is why it was suggested. Seems a binding like the TD3 will help with that to give more selective toe canting in the front

 

Biggest drawback though - extremely cold toes. The rest of my feet are fine, but my toes? I had to stop and sit in the car with the heater on my feet for almost 30 minutes trying to slowly warm them up. The shell fits though, which is the important part. I will have to see about another liner or heater. Suggestions for this?

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If you put different liners in, be careful if you choose high-bulk models that have lots of foam around the entire toe box.  They look like they will be warmer, but depending on the breaks, they may take up so much space in the boot compared to the stock liners that no amount of cooking will keep them from crushing your toes without punching out the shell.  That was my experience when I put Deeluxe Speed Red liners in my RC-10s.

 

I use Therm-IC heaters in my boots with the Basic model 4xAA battery packs.  This is the cheapest way to put heaters in because you are not investing in proprietary battery packs.  I put NiMh AA rechargables in the packs.  The downside is that I have to remove the cells from the pack and charge them in a separate charger.  The upside is that AA rechargables are dirt cheap.

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I've used both Deeluxe Red liners and Intuition Alpine liners in my UPZ boots. No real preference either way. I did add extra padding around/between my toes when molding.

I use boot Hotronic heaters in my boots below about 10F - but I have very cold feet in general. At -10F and colder, I add boot gloves as well. Once in the -20's and below, I find my heels get cold which prompts a trip into the lodge every hour or so.

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How big of a difference does the liner make in the boot stiffness? Can it be negated with the flex adjustments? I bought  a set of older, but new liners earlier this season for my last boots as a temporary fix to the foot pain caused by heel lift in my Deeluxe Suzukas.

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I find my UPZ RC 10's much more comfortable and precise than the Deeluxe 700s they replaced. I haven't found any need for BTS but I do hav ed to pad around a heel spur-of-the-moment hope of punching there. I did have some punching done around left navicular bone by someone who nearly ruined the upper. Bought blacks to replace uppers but the damaged area hasn't failed. My only gripe is the propensity for the can't disk screws to fall out, even with Loctite. Buy spares!

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