ashychef1 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Hi! I am intrigued by the Swoard EC but don't know if it is definitely the board for me:confused:. I have been riding hard shells and alpine boards for 20 years. My favorite board ever was a 1996-97 Hot shine 162. I currently ride a 1995 +/- Rossi Alpine 159 which I love, but is obviously a bit long in the tooth and it is time to upgrade. I weigh 170#, am 5,9' and have 27 mondo raichle 124's. Anyone out there ride a Swoard? I like softer flexes and wider boards in general (my angles are 51 front 48 back), but don't know how there flexes compare to what I consider soft/hard. Any advice would be appreciated very much!!!! I live in Park City, so if there are any hardbooters around here let me know!!! :D Ash :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) Post in the Utah section to hook up with other riders in your area. The basic shape of the Swoard was first drawn around the same time as your Rossi, and its construction just really isn't up to date with the current crop of alpine boards. You'd probably do really well with a used new school race board, they are sometimes quite wide because racers tend to prefer low angles. New boards in general have a lot of the good traits of a soft board, no awkward tippy low speed carves and they soak up bumps as if they are noodles- even if they aren't. Edit: Just saw your other post, looks like you're aiming to buy new. Instead of getting the Swoard, get the Donek Proteus from Bomber for $100 more. Donek's stuff is cutting edge and gets revised multiple times per season. Going from that Rossi to a board like the Proteus is like going from driving a shopping cart to a race car. Edited February 11, 2013 by KingCrimson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebionicman Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Another option is call up Bruce at Coiler. I worked with him and got his EC board and love it. 175 x 22 with a variable sidecut radius. I takes anything I can throw at it here in the Midwest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashychef1 Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Thanks for the tips guys! I will follow up on them. P.S. King crimson-love the dancing bear! Ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Thanks for the tips guys! I will follow up on them. P.S. King crimson-love the dancing bear! Ash You know, I've been on these forums almost 5 years, and had that Grateful Dead bear there for over year, and I just now realized that between the username and the picture I have inadvertently made myself look like the forum's resident drug user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashychef1 Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 It's just about the music!! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 You are in between a 168 hard and medium, according your boot size may be even a 175 medium. I should go for a Coiler ec because it's even more dampened with the titanal in it. Just phone Bruce from Coiler, he knows what he is taliking about and makes nice ec boards. I have ridden both brands. I should go for 173 or something like that with a 13/14 m radius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'd say give the Gen4 from Swoard a try if you can: there is more dampening and smoother ride than we had in the Gen1 ( 2003-2004 which I believe Hans has/had) and the board is fine tuned to the max: the shape is indeed in developpement and reaching a level of precision in EC that is unmatched: yes you can get more dampness with a titanal board, but titanal implies decambered rocker which is not the way we ( swoard) think it should be for an EC board that is riding vertically on the snow at apex of turn. ( I'll developp that in another topic when I get the time..). Dampeness is interesting, but lead everyone the 100% titanal way which might be good for racing, but is not what we are into now. Having a non titanal construction doesn't mean you're out of date! ( reminds me on when the foam cores and monocap where hip)... Its a "marketing" view biased by the racing boards or the freecarving " racing / bomber style" which is not what we are into while doing EC. We tried titanal, we built titanal, we decambered, we recambered, in many prototypes since 2006-7 season, and if we stick to the original shape, making smooth but perceptible evolutions in the construction and efficiency on the snow, it's not to save money or try to be different...it's because it works better for EC in all conditions....This does not means that titanal is a no go...it means we don't want to go the decambered way for good reasons: it does not work as good as cambered board for EC ( same goes with VSR radii).. Try to get someone near you with a gen4 or gen3 Swoard matching your size/weight/feet size and borrow the board for a ride! See for yourself! Nils Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) Looks like a winner! ^ Maybe a bit on soft side, but it would be easy to ride. Nils, Funny that you talk agains the decamber, while you guys were actually the first to put a noticeable decamber in the nose. I think that's definitelly the way to go - some decamber for easy initiation and "auto-pilot" when high on the edge, or in rough spots. I'm not into full "banana" shapes, even Kesslers and other modern race boards have a bit too much... I also agree on the radial cuts - there's something wonderfully predictable about the way they ride. As for Titanal, I've seen pretty dead boards and some lively ones too... It definitely seems to smooth the ride and ad the grip. However, a well made non-titanal (I purposley didn't say glass) can be every bit as good, yet different, to Titanal counterparts. Just other day, I was on a last gen. before titanal Tomahawk, pretty traditional shape and construction. I was just amazed by the boards performance. Just for the sake of transparency, my favorite board for EC AND Bomber style is a titanal, small nose decameber, radial cut, soft flex, metaltop... Edited February 12, 2013 by BlueB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashychef1 Posted February 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Thanks for all the info! BlueB, out of curiosity what is that favorite board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 A first generation Prior WCRM 173. It's what I'm riding in my avatar. Those metaltops were notorious for failures. Mine somehow had good, long, happy life. The tail delamed a bit few weeks ago. I hope I can still repair it. On the good snow in our medium sized resort, this board is pure joy to ride, for me. However, I hate it when the slopes get choppy - I'm always terrified I'd brake it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Nils, Funny that you talk agains the decamber, while you guys were actually the first to put a noticeable decamber in the nose. I think that's definitelly the way to go - some decamber for easy initiation and "auto-pilot" when high on the edge, or in rough spots. I'm not into full "banana" shapes, even Kesslers and other modern race boards have a bit too much... I also agree on the radial cuts - there's something wonderfully predictable about the way they ride. As for Titanal, I've seen pretty dead boards and some lively ones too... It definitely seems to smooth the ride and ad the grip. However, a well made non-titanal (I purposley didn't say glass) can be every bit as good, yet different, to Titanal counterparts. Just other day, I was on a last gen. before titanal Tomahawk, pretty traditional shape and construction. I was just amazed by the boards performance. BlueB, I have nothing really against decambered, and the Swoard concept is kind of decambered in a way since the idea is to have an low camber and progressive flat nose that is indeed kind of familiar today ( we settled around 8mm camber for a 175 for a while)..it's just that when you make a board with more rocker, it just doesn't fit into turns the same way.. The way I see it ( again I'm thinking of writing something about it) is that inserting titanal big ways the way it got after Kessler did it made it necessary to add rocker, otherwise boards are so locked in turns that they loose all versatility: there is no way those sheets of titanal can be torsion friendly when you need them to be: added rocker made it possible to loose grip and gain that easier ride that would otherwise be a no go for titanal appart from very specialized boards. Racers need the extra dampening, thus need titanal, thus get decambered boards, thus it went into mainstream/ fancy in alpine...again, it suits well racing / bomber style where u press the boards with legs down the line, but push pull is difficult on such boards, especially when they are coming from a vertical position on the snow ( which is almost never the case in racing, normal freecarving down the line..). Dampening is an interesting path, but to my opinion with titanal we lost wings on the way...we created rocker boards, plates for extra dampening, heavy weaponry that is good for racing or for some kind of turns that is not what I and the EC guys over here like ( light gear, close to the board, no cant no lift, versatility)..It doesn't mean we should not use titanal, it means titanal, the way it is used now, has not given us the good results for EC or versatile light boards... Regarding VSR, its also something that is made for racing / freecarving down the line but doesnt suit our rotational turns the way it works...I also think like you that it feels unpredictable.... anyway... ;) N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinterGold Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 I find this discussion highly interesting and I can´t wait for your own thread on the topic, Nils! That said I wonder how much influence the equipment really has here. It sounds as if there are major differences here and if the racers need completely different equipment than the EC riders. I know that this video doesn´t proof much, but still it got me thinking ... The guy is using an SG FullRace Pro Team and UPZ boots - real race equipment, right? And riders like e.g. everts72 are even using plates on their Kesslers for EC. Back in the days we used to joke that the equipment makes only about 5% of the performance. The rest is made up by the rider. I always kept to this formula. That said 5% can still make a difference ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCrimson Posted February 13, 2013 Report Share Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) I'd say give the Gen4 from Swoard a try if you can: there is more dampening and smoother ride than we had in the Gen1 ( 2003-2004 which I believe Hans has/had) and the board is fine tuned to the max: the shape is indeed in developpement and reaching a level of precision in EC that is unmatched: yes you can get more dampness with a titanal board, but titanal implies decambered rocker which is not the way we ( swoard) think it should be for an EC board that is riding vertically on the snow at apex of turn. ( I'll developp that in another topic when I get the time..). Dampeness is interesting, but lead everyone the 100% titanal way which might be good for racing, but is not what we are into now. Having a non titanal construction doesn't mean you're out of date! ( reminds me on when the foam cores and monocap where hip)... Its a "marketing" view biased by the racing boards or the freecarving " racing / bomber style" which is not what we are into while doing EC. We tried titanal, we built titanal, we decambered, we recambered, in many prototypes since 2006-7 season, and if we stick to the original shape, making smooth but perceptible evolutions in the construction and efficiency on the snow, it's not to save money or try to be different...it's because it works better for EC in all conditions....This does not means that titanal is a no go...it means we don't want to go the decambered way for good reasons: it does not work as good as cambered board for EC ( same goes with VSR radii).. BlueB,I have nothing really against decambered, and the Swoard concept is kind of decambered in a way since the idea is to have an low camber and progressive flat nose that is indeed kind of familiar today ( we settled around 8mm camber for a 175 for a while)..it's just that when you make a board with more rocker, it just doesn't fit into turns the same way.. The way I see it ( again I'm thinking of writing something about it) is that inserting titanal big ways the way it got after Kessler did it made it necessary to add rocker, otherwise boards are so locked in turns that they loose all versatility: there is no way those sheets of titanal can be torsion friendly when you need them to be: added rocker made it possible to loose grip and gain that easier ride that would otherwise be a no go for titanal appart from very specialized boards. Racers need the extra dampening, thus need titanal, thus get decambered boards, thus it went into mainstream/ fancy in alpine...again, it suits well racing / bomber style where u press the boards with legs down the line, but push pull is difficult on such boards, especially when they are coming from a vertical position on the snow ( which is almost never the case in racing, normal freecarving down the line..). Dampening is an interesting path, but to my opinion with titanal we lost wings on the way...we created rocker boards, plates for extra dampening, heavy weaponry that is good for racing or for some kind of turns that is not what I and the EC guys over here like ( light gear, close to the board, no cant no lift, versatility)..It doesn't mean we should not use titanal, it means titanal, the way it is used now, has not given us the good results for EC or versatile light boards... Regarding VSR, its also something that is made for racing / freecarving down the line but doesnt suit our rotational turns the way it works...I also think like you that it feels unpredictable.... anyway... ;) N Hi Nils, thank you for your responses. I am curious why titanal to you means that a board must be decambered, I know the last few seasons the Renntiger was in production it incorporated titanal layers but it was built with a normal kink nose. I'm not saying the board is out of date because it lacks metal, but I do feel that as a whole, I do not see sweeping revisions in the design of the board that reflect the pace of the alpine world right now. I especially am surprised at the lack of changes in the nose profile, because all the other "segments" of carving- freecarving, racing, all mountain, and boardercross racing have all embraced nose rocker. Freecarvers and racers also get the board all the way on edge. You mentioned that you have more info on why a kinked nose is better for EC, I would love it if you started a new thread with this info, I have a very limited understanding of the advantages of what is now largely considered an obsolescent design feature. I am also surprised that VSR is not in the boards. I think it takes time to learn how a board responds with VSR, but I certainly wouldn't call any of my VSR boards unpredictable after the first few runs. I agree that boards dont fit into turns the same way with decamber- I think they fit better. The trenches are narrower and cleaner because the board isn't plowing in the nose. If a board isn't plowing in the nose, it's a smoother ride. Quieter too. As far as titanal making rocker necessary, I don't think that's true. My Apex slalom board is titanal, and the torsionally softest board I own. It's torsionally softer than my Burton Fusion BX board. It's super friendly and forgiving. I'm glad it does have rocker though because it slays powder and chop. It's even fun in moguls. Most people on BOL who are active riders and consumers in the market (not the kind that has been riding the same gear for decades) seem to ride metal freecarve boards in the 170s with bindings mounted right to the board. All of those boards are light weight (Bruce aims for a sub-8 pound build weight for most of his boards IIRC) and versatile. Their versatility is a chief selling point, so I think it's wrong to suggest that metal boards are not versatile. I do REALLY appreciate the philosophy you share that with titanal we "lost wings." I think a lot of people have bought completely trick setups with bomber plates and sidewinders and all kinds of big high tech boards with full race technology when there is a lot to be said for a basic no-frills setup. People are basically riding with their wallets, and the very basic setups endorsed by Swoard are a more soulful, traditional experience. I just think it's very dismissive and short sighted to phrase things in a way that suggests that going to boards with new school tweaks detracts from that. It's just a big suspension of disbelief for me to read posts and assume that all these points about EC board design are true. Look at my avatar, my board would not be considerably more on edge if my body was completely laid out on the snow. It's a big leap to be told a board for EC, which would be subject to the same angles and forces, requires a dramatically different design. Edited February 13, 2013 by KingCrimson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashychef1 Posted February 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2013 Thanks again everyone for the wealth of info and different perspectives. I went for the coiler stubby and am excited to get into gear from this decade! Nils-thanks for all the info. I am still intrigued by the Swoard and will hopefully get the chance to ride one soon. I love the EC style and the Swoard philosophy. Happy riding all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 howdy ashychef1 i too was looking at the coiler, it would be a fun board at my weight (145lb), but you'll be too heavy to ec on this board. even ian said the board is too soft for him even at 165lb. i was thinking it would have been too soft for me to ec on that board. you'll still have fun on it, but if you feel it's too soft let me know... thanks, west carven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted February 16, 2013 Report Share Posted February 16, 2013 Thats realy a decision to go into gear from this decade. It's so funny, to read about ideas of choosing proper flex to the riders weight later. I don't realy know, but maybe that can just be a part of Swoard philosophy? Even, it's so funny to see on video the SG FullRace Pro Team and UPZ boots, - real race equipment on soft and grippy slope. If you don't have access to such a (made by Elan Ski) "up-to-date" race equipment, just try out some cheap Snowboard sets ($250 for board and bindings). Put on some plastic platebindings, use some softer hardboots and go to an icy 40° steep slope - maybe groomed, or not groomed fresh since days. That's not good for videos, because of missing sprays and missing deep trenches, but earning dozens of perfect carved U-turns can be fun there with such a board. More than on video above, videos with EC and extreme carving became wide-spread on youtube last couple of Years. And - I still can't wait for the first video cutting trenches with a Fanatic LTD EC 165 from the Year 1999. You know, that black board with the red sidewalls, wide at waist and with no deep sidecut! I think it wouldn't be a good idea to write now here, what for that EC was standing than. Back to the theme: Decision was taken by ashychef1. And for sure there should be asked, do you want to go to gear from this decade, or not. But it should be also asked, where do you want to go: 1.) do you prefer to do ski-sports with with type of boards built for ridings through gates and races ? 2.) do you prefer to do board-sports, like snowboarding, similar to skateboarding/slalom-skatebording/surfing ? If you like the first one, take the right boards for it. The full-sheet-Titanal ones. They are fast too. I'm sure, you know all the story how they are developed once. That constructions are founding on skis and only on skis. Just watch the alpin snowboard racers type of turns, compared to Slalom Skiing. Just ask H-J Kessler how he did his developments - on skis and just only on skis. You will find many followers too with copy-items, without that background of H-J Kessler (like we can see it on EC-boards/Swoard also). You can do freecarving too with that full-sheet-Titanal boards, even if not so smooth, not with that easyness and pureness like on true board-sports. Just watch e.g. to the FIS-WC racers if they carve long turns around on slope. Sometime they have to work hard, to reach that smooth snowboarding. Ask them for to go carving with you on light moguls-slope! (I can't stop my big grin!) Ask them to follow you with their kinked nose boards to crust snow, left or right of slope! (Why my big grin becomes even more big?) If You like the second one, take the right boards for it too. You can try to race gates with them. Maybe it's very hard, because flexpattern to/and SCR AND movements of pure boardsports don't fit at all the line of actual gate-course-settings. Just try it out on training days before continental events, or worldcup events, or national trainings. The racers are friendly and ask you sometimes from themself for you want to go down the course too. (Tip: ride it down fakie, I mean backward , it's more easy for a good carver to handle such a course backward than foreward! It sounds crazy, but it's true.) So if you take the second one, the right boards for doing boardsports, you will earn a lot of fun, these boards are made for it! These non-full-sheet-Titanal boards have a kind of versatility, smoothness, forgiving and a ready-to-following boardsport movements, you wouldn't find on full-sheet-Titanal boards at all. Why talking from "traditional shape and construction" and not from "true alpineboards", "true raceboards", or "true carvingboards", which are way closer to any board-sport, then anything else! ashychef1, if You love the EC style and the Swoard philosophy, give a try, maybe even later. These constuctions are made to find an easy entry to EC style and Swoard try to guarant versatility, smoothness, forgiving and for sure they are ready to follow boardsport movements, because Swoard philosophy is based on boardsport movements! Again and again, the big question is: Do you want to ski or do you want to surf the mountain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I think that every story can be bent and twisted to sute the aggenda/taste of the story teller... Ski the mountain, board the mountain, what the hell? Go ride and enjoy. I often snowboard my skis :) I also ski my board. And other way round too. Not to even mention about surfing the monoski or the skwall... Good rider needs to know all the methods and techniques, anyhow! Ski and snowboard industries have borrowed and stollen technologies from each other often enough, that it even becomes pointless arguing. And that is how it should be. It is the same sport, just the hardcores won't accept it. Oh, btw, slalom skateboard is more similar to skiing or PSL then surfing a snowboard... I also ski and surf my skates... However, when I surf the surf, I mostly eat it :D Aloha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashychef1 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Good one BlueB!:lol: Aloha and Mahalo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmatic Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 ashychef1, don't missunderstand me, it's fine if you become lucky with your new board, the coiler stubby. Even if the board fits your demands. For sure BlueB, e.g. Lindsey Vonn went maybe for snowboarding her skis in Schladming too, like many thousends of skiers try it every wintertime similar. Even if we have icy slopes, I call middle station of gondola the "central cruciate ligament rupture collecting-base" for skiers. So if anyone like to merge both, he is free to do it. BlueB, You forgot to enumerate the snow-bikes, they are very fast too. And yes, many snowsport schools (ski&snowboard) merge both body movements. We know the results. Just go ride and enjoy - and watch others skill. Just compare actual teaching books of the unions. We just have now an increasing on snowboard market, or overall wintersport market? - 10 Years ago: worldwide 6'000'000 pair of skis have been sold, for this season we count 3'200'000 pair of skis - - we count now 40 % of snowboards sold on market compared to 10 Years before - "snowboard the skis" and "ski the board" on nowadays everywhere perfect groomed slopes, becomes more and more boring to our volks - we have now growing uninterestings to skiing and snowboarding. In our case please show me some spectacular pictures on carvingboards. All the mass of photos of cuting edges on easy to go perfect groomed slopes are so boring too. The resorts, the skill, the sports-scene became more and more interchangeable, doesn't matter on slope, at snowpark, on freeride areas. That would help up-comming countrys to enter wintersports easy. Otherwise wintersport declines on Classic and Alpine wintersport countrys on the alps massive - ahm, we had 2 winters with plenty of snow! And yes I know, in America they are on a growing trend. So You know BlueB, on raceboarding/alpineboarding many things went wrong the last decade. Let me explain that with a sweet occurrence from last week. There was a little boy, somthing less then 10 Years young, asking me for help to press out the centerdisk of his F2 Titanium bindings. He want adjust his binding-angles. He was there to join a gate-training-group, which I'm not part of it. O.k. he wasn't able to know who I am. He just saw me with my (true slalom) alpineboard (you know that things which are tighter on nose and wider on tail) and asked me for help. He was riding a Kessler (little boy's version, heavy pintail for sure) with that F2 Titanium S-size bindings. So say me, how a hell, he can drive that way to high, to stiff and for him so heavy bindings without getting tired. I gave him the adress of an outlet-store, where he can buy for cheap ($10) new lightweight and low-profile Nidecker's and F2's Youth-bindings. I don't think this boy will ever be able to know, what can be ridden with raceboards/alpineboards/carvingboards. He will be locked on full-sheet-Titanal boards and on FIS rules for ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLN Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 I find this discussion highly interesting and I can´t wait for your own thread on the topic, Nils! That said I wonder how much influence the equipment really has here. It sounds as if there are major differences here and if the racers need completely different equipment than the EC riders. I know that this video doesn´t proof much, but still it got me thinking ... The guy is using an SG FullRace Pro Team and UPZ boots - real race equipment, right? And riders like e.g. everts72 are even using plates on their Kesslers for EC. Back in the days we used to joke that the equipment makes only about 5% of the performance. The rest is made up by the rider. I always kept to this formula. That said 5% can still make a difference ;-). Really interestin position. I got lots of posts from a russian board, where the guy who posted this video are and all the others. Many people say that they're using race boards for a EC and having fun with it. Even more, when i contacted Bruce on this, he told me that EC board ha makes, are wider, stiffer in the middle then FC boards. So I can suggest that EC boards is somewhere in between race boards and freecarve. Not sure if I'm right, but you can correct me. I was also told by many people that pure race boards for a newbies are overkill. Now i wonder what is better, take a EC-specific board and use it for racing sometime, or take a race board and use it mostly for EC :) I'd go for a new board and that's pretty interesting topic to me. What about UPZ boots, i recently got mine.. They're super comfy and really great! 10 times beter then my 325 deeluxes. And they still stay flexible when if gets below zero F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
au@ Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) it's just that when you make a board with more rocker, it just doesn't fit into turns the same way......again, it suits well racing / bomber style where u press the boards with legs down the line, but push pull is difficult on such boards, especially when they are coming from a vertical position on the snow... ...it means titanal, the way it is used now, has not given us the good results for EC or versatile light boards... Regarding VSR, its also something that is made for racing / freecarving down the line but doesnt suit our rotational turns the way it works...I also think like you that it feels unpredictable.... We tried titanal, we built titanal, we decambered, we recambered, in many prototypes since 2006-7 season, and if we stick to the original shape, making smooth but perceptible evolutions in the construction and efficiency on the snow, it's not to save money or try to be different...it's because it works better for EC in all conditions.... Work harder comrades! ;D Just in case you haven't seen: http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?39648-Gentlemen-prefer-Kessler&p=396322#post396322 Edited March 1, 2013 by au@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogokoenig Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 ...blahbloob... Schneewurm? Snowworm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Work harder comrades! ;D Just in case you haven't seen: http://www.bomberonline.com/VBulletin/showthread.php?39648-Gentlemen-prefer-Kessler&p=396322#post396322 If I didn't know any better I'd say you're trolling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Schneewurm? Snowworm? If I didn't know any better I'd say you're trolling... :lol::lol: Trolling Schneewurms.... :lol::lol: EC'ing on Kessler raceboards with titanal, can't be true.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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