SaffainSweden Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi everyone, I'm a long time lurker-first time poster who loves carving on my softboot setup. I also love riding powder. I've been snowboarding since I moved to Sweden from South africa 11 years ago. I have surfed my whole life but I reckon snowboarding is the board sport I love the most. Nothing beats the feeling of speed and g-forces you get when bombing down a slope pulling g's. And riding powder is as good as surfing a super glassy 6ft day at your favourite point break any day. Anyway after reading lots and lots of posts on the forum and all of the articles on the website I still have a couple of questions. I want to upgrade my equipment to get an even more carving orientated board that still works when I go heli skiing and riding the forests. The slopes I ride here are not as nice and wide as the ones I see you guys carving the guts out of in your videos so I have decided that a BX board is probably the best thing for me. I got to ride an F2 Eliminator 165 for a few days 2 years back and I still dream about those days. I got to ride freshly groomed corduroy, powder in the birch forests and nice big open glory powder heli ski slopes and I have never felt more in control or gone faster, steeper or carved harder. So that is the board I reckon I'll be getting to take my carving to the next level. I think in the future I will get an alpine board and hard boot set up. But until then I am wondering would it be possible for me to first get hard boots and ride them on the F2 Eliminator? The other question I have is: Can you use snowboarding hard boots with slalom skis? When I ride with my kid I like to sometimes ride slalom and if I could use hard boots for both snowboarding and skiing that would be great! Thanks for any advice.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Taking only your 1st question: ... I am wondering would it be possible for me to first get hard boots and ride them on the F2 Eliminator? The short answer is: yes. I ride mostly non-alpine board in heli trees & powder, all of it with hard boots. It's most certainly: (a) possible; and (b) lots of fun. I'd argue that a BX board probably hasn't the best tail flex for heli powder, but I've never tried one so I don't know. I would recommend trying a dedicated modern powder board some time as you may find that even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffainSweden Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thanks for your reply. Cool so it is possible. That's awesome then I can start by getting hard boots and as I save money eventually get a dedicated alpine board. I do ride a Burton Fish 160 in the powder and I love it. But for those days when it's a lot of slope riding with a little bit of sneaky powder on the side I reckon another board is better. The Fish doesn't seem to carve as well as my other board - An Extrem Justice 160 (A Swedish board). Maybe it's because of the amount of taper in the Fish. Anyway so my next step would be to get hard boots and hard boot bindings and set them up on my 80% groomers/20% pow board. Do you know if I can use snowboard hard boots to ride slalom skis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Anyway so my next step would be to get hard boots and hard boot bindings and set them up on my 80% groomers/20% pow board. Do you know if I can use snowboard hard boots to ride slalom skis?generally no. with UPZ boots you can get DIN heel and toe blocks for ski use.a better idea if you want dual-use from the boots is to find a suitable set of ski boots, and use TD3 SW or F2 titanflex bindings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowboardfast Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 You would have to spend a lot of money to get a pair of ski boots that might work on your snowboard and you would be better off getting a pair of snowboard hardboots to use on your snowboard and getting a pair of ski boots to use on your skis. Used ski boots are generally easy to come by and are not that expensive. If you are planning to ride all mountain with hardboots ski boots will be too stiff to ride in powder and or mixed conditions with your snowboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Fish: yes, I think it's the taper, plus they're pretty wide, and they have no tail. Rideable on hard pack? Well I've never had to try, but I've had some mates ride them and I wouldn't myself. A Malolo is more versatile from that perspective, but Fish still rock. Question 2: what they said sounds right. I used to ride snowboards in ski boots (Dynafit 3F Comp S and Nordica Gran Prix), that's what I'd try if I still had time to ski. The catch is that you need the clip bindings, not the Intec step-in ones for that. I did ride powder with those too, didn't notice any hassle with that myself: ski boots have tons of settings. But it's not ideal. Thinking about it, if I was doing it now... I'd probably buy some traditional-clip hard boot bindings, and try them with my existing ski boots. If that sucked, then I'd end up buying snowboard boots, but I've not lost much. Alternatively maybe someone here has experience of those UPZ convertible boots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoofyFoot Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Can you use snowboarding hard boots with slalom skis? When I ride with my kid I like to sometimes ride slalom and if I could use hard boots for both snowboarding and skiing that would be great! I am going to echo what Snowboardfast said and expand upon the "why." I am both a ski and SB instructor at a local resort and enjoy riding my carving gear the best so I often pack three boot bags when I head off to the mountain. Also, note that in Eastern Canada, we rarely experience powder conditions which is why I am not going to comment on a boot/board set-up for soft snow. You need a hard boot for the greater G-forces that a carving board produces - the hard shell gives you better control (when fitted properly! I am sure you have seen lots of advice on that elsewhere on Bomber...). While it is possible to use a ski boot in a "regular" bail plate binding, typically ski boots are too stiff in that they do not allow you enough forward lean. I know this from painful personal experience when I started out and tried to economize as well. I HAVE seen some riders in ski boots that they have extensively customized by gradually cutting away at the internal flanges behind the boot tongue to soften up the boot overall. One must have patience, know what they are doing and be prepared to ruin a pair of ski boots in the process! My advice to you is the same as Snowboardfast; buy a dedicated pair of carving boots on your snowboard and use a second pair of ski boots when you want to ski. Switch boots while you are buying your son a hot chocolate in the chalet!!! Moreover, with a dedicated carving boot, you can go with a step-in binding, which in my neighbourhood, is the preferred set-up for the recreational hard boot rider. FYI, the flip side of this equation DOES NOT work (at least for the Raichle and Deeluxe boots I have owned so you will have to take Keiran's advice about changeable units on UPZ boots). You cannot ski in carving boots because the shape of the heel and toe pieces do not fit into the DIN standard receivers of ski bindings (unfortunately). I hope this helps. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 as far as i recall, the toe/heel block swap on the UPZ boots is a boots off and screwdriver work scenario. if time is your enemy, buy two sets of boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinpa Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Cool so it is possible. Anything is possible! I had an an older red/white/ blue F2 Eliminator that I rode with both hard and soft.... but I liked it better with softies.... currently I have a little Rossi All-Mountain board that has plates on it which is the board for less than perfect carving conditions! (also rocks, teaching, etc....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0815-fahrer Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just on a side note: since you are in Sweden, you might want to hook up with Mats (also his nickname in this Forum). He represents his own brand, Alpinepunk. Typical quality gear, maybe exactly what you are looking for. If he is not busy shredding on a LesPaul, he is out there in the white stuff. Contact him over his homepage ( http://www.alpinepunk.com/ ) or through the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffainSweden Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Thanks so much for all the information guys. It really has cleared up all my questions and now I can continue my progress to hard booting with a clearer idea of how to go about it. Just to sum up to make sure I've got it right: (1) Hard boots plus BX board (like an F2 Eliminator) = Yes, can do. (2) Hard boots for snowboard on slalom skis = No - get dedicated boots for both. Also I could think about riding with soft boots and plates until I get a full Alpine set up. Great forum and great help. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (1) Hard boots plus BX board (like an F2 Eliminator) = Yes, can do. (2) Hard boots for snowboard on slalom skis = No - get dedicated boots for both. 3) Ski boots on slalom skis, ski boots on alpine board = YES. You just need the right boots. Dalbello has couple of models that work. 4) AT boots on skis, AT boots on alpine board = YES. 5) UPZ+Din or AT soles on both ski binding AND plate binding, without changing the soles all the time = YES. Also I could think about riding with soft boots and plates until I get a full Alpine set up.! Ummm, NO... Soft boots and soft bindings, hard boots and plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinpa Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 you could even start with cranking up the angles on your soft boot setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffainSweden Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 3) Ski boots on slalom skis, ski boots on alpine board = YES. You just need the right boots. Dalbello has couple of models that work. 4) AT boots on skis, AT boots on alpine board = YES. 5) UPZ+Din or AT soles on both ski binding AND plate binding, without changing the soles all the time = YES. Ummm, NO... Soft boots and soft bindings, hard boots and plates. I meant these: http://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/Power-Plate-System-_p_181.html They'd work with soft boots and a BX board right? @Kinpa: Yes I'll do that for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I meant these: http://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/Power-Plate-System-_p_181.html They'd work with soft boots and a BX board right?yes indeed. they'll help with getting your angles more forward, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plankton Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 if you want to be on skis for teaching kids, and wear snowboard hardboots, you can use a set of snowblades/bigfoot skis that come with non-release bindings. I did that about 8 years ago with my old burton hardboots and it fit the bill pretty well. Worst case scenario you may need to put the bindings on in the reverse way they clip onto normal ski boots. The shorter skis allow you to skate around and ski backwards which is great for little beginners. No poles, no long planks, minimal hassle. I haven't taken them off the bunny slope and really stressed them, so don't bet your life on the set up in serious conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xy9ine Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 5) UPZ+Din or AT soles on both ski binding AND plate binding, without changing the soles all the time = YES. so no issues with running the upz din parts on plate bindings (td3's specifically)? be nice to not have to drag ski boots around. not too concerned w/ optimum skiing performance as i'm only tagging along w/ kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 so no issues with running the upz din parts on plate bindings (td3's specifically)? be nice to not have to drag ski boots around. not too concerned w/ optimum skiing performance as i'm only tagging along w/ kids. They need to be t-nutted for sure. Other potential issue is longer footprint that might require slightly higher angles. Another beneffit is easier centering of the boot. AT sole hase a bit of width issue with TD2/3 and Fin recommends wider shoulder part on the bails. Some people had to shave a tiny bit of sole side too. Take all of this with grain of salt and get the official info from Dan Yoja! I meant these: http://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/Power-Plate-System-_p_181.html They'd work with soft boots and a BX board right? Ah, sorry, I missunderstood. Sure those would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I meant these: http://bomberonline.3dcartstores.com/Power-Plate-System-_p_181.html They'd work with soft boots and a BX board right?@Kinpa: Yes I'll do that for sure. Like this?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim W Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Yes the power plate system will work great, and if you buy the whole system you get TD3 discs and elastomers. You will find this system much more capable of carving than without and better control in the powder. I am extraordinarily pleased with my power plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffainSweden Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Exactly. They really do look like the sh!t!! I am amping to try them. QUOTE=Futahaguro;370620]Like this?:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffainSweden Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 By the way, how long is that board? It looks sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futahaguro Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 163. I have more pictures of it under the review section for all mountain boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkaholic Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 163. I have more pictures of it under the review section for all mountain boards. I saw this board today at loveland and Eric was rockin' some really nice turns with this setup. Nice to meet you and let us know next time you come out. Ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skatha Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 if you want to be on skis for teaching kids, and wear snowboard hardboots, you can use a set of snowblades/bigfoot skis that come with non-release bindings. I did that about 8 years ago with my old burton hardboots and it fit the bill pretty well. Worst case scenario you may need to put the bindings on in the reverse way they clip onto normal ski boots. The shorter skis allow you to skate around and ski backwards which is great for little beginners. No poles, no long planks, minimal hassle. I haven't taken them off the bunny slope and really stressed them, so don't bet your life on the set up in serious conditions. I agree completely with this quote-snowblades are extremely manueverable without poles, great for use with kids and are compatible with hard boots. If you are just tooling around on the greenies with the kiddos, you can't beat having an alpine setup with a pair of snowblades for use when needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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