Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Alex's thread on a carving magazine has brought up something that I have been thinking about for a long time. http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25886 Here's the crowd that was at the bottom of the 1/2 pipe at XGames for the men's finals. Ridiculous to see some spolied red haired kid in skinny jeans that's barely old enough to drink. How can we get this kind of crowd for ANY hard boot event? Heck, I'd even take 1/2 these people for ONE race. Let's brainstorm and think how we can make our sport look sooooooo cool that everyone has to see it, do it, etc. Especially people of "our" age, that are tired of just watching the sport and not being able to actually participate (25 foot walls in the half pipe, 200 ft jumps in big air, etc). Carving is a sport for so many people, I just think they don't know about it. One idea I have been thinking about is sponsors to bring some advertising $$ to the sport. If we can get just one or two companies to put some cool photos (like the ones you guys take!!) on their ads of a race, a "perfect" carve, etc we could get some media coverage and get it out there. This was my point in this post. Bring on the ideas smart people! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 15s staggered start, super-super-giant slalom relay. course ideally 120s long. each 'team' has 4 members, and they have to pass the baton within specified relay zones. fastest clear time wins. overtaking is encouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 15s staggered start, super-super-giant slalom relay. course ideally 120s long.each 'team' has 4 members, and they have to pass the baton within specified relay zones. fastest clear time wins. overtaking is encouraged. I like it!I definitely think that a real giant slalom is something we should bring back to this sport. It's scary as hell, and super exciting and I know that the racers would LOVE it. However, we have to talk FIS, USSA, and USASA into it because the racers won't take that risk if they don't get points for it. Audi sponsored event - Birds of Prey downhill at Beaver Creek every year. Hey, I'd take these guys if they would attract a crowd! Why is skiing so much more enticing to them? Is it the Super G aspect, or is it the skiing part? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 oops let me revise that photo a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 This is the photo I was trying to post.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcarver Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Gear it towards skiers. Skiers seem to "get it". All the carvers at Telluride are also avid skiers. Except me. All the new converts are all skiers. Skiers always stop us and ask about the boards and equipment. Skiers always stop and watch us carve and say how awesome it looks. I've only had 1 snowboarder ask about it. I've got him set up with gear now too. Youngest carver is in his mid 30's out here too. Youngsters only have interest in how high they can launch and how many times they can spin. All the big companies have all their gear aimed at this group too. Skiers get using their edges to turn and already are used to hardboots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Some session ideas be it SES or ECES I've been kicking around are: Local mountain (Aspen/Stratton) to list event on website with our logo and carving pictures, and brief write up or schedule of events Warren Miller, this has been a dream for Jack and I for years. The ultimate would be to have some footage of our events show up in a WM movie Local sponsors to kick the event up a notch with some music, DJ etc. SES/ECES advertising posters situated at local mountains and ski/snowboard shops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenan Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think there needs to be more exposure at the retail level. I am asked about my equipment almost every time I ride and am constantly hearing people say they would like to try a carving set up. So, if you ride in Colorado, Park City Vermont or Whistler you can demo the gear. If you are any where else you had better know somebody who already has gear, and then you might be looking at renting ski boots. I would love to see a Bomber or Donek tent next to the Burton tent during demo days. Maybe SES needs to go on tour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokkis Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I would say that instead of 120 sec track folks want to see action, they dont care if race takes 30 sec or 130 sec if they dont see it. So real action way they can see it, real EC-carve contest on slope where whole track is visible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 However, we have to talk FIS, USSA, and USASA into it because the racers won't take that risk if they don't get points for it. It's always seemed really obvious that there are about a bazillion things you could do to making racing more enticing to the masses, so the question that has always succeeded that question of "how to we make this more interesting" is "why is nobody changing the events to attract more interest". Sounds like I have my answer. I thought USSA was out of the picture for Alpine Snowboarding ... aren't they sticking to BX/SBX and Freestyle nowadays? Or am I missing something. Has anyone ever tried to put together an event that isn't bound by these organizations so that they can create something more awesome, and try to get coverage/interest in it from athletes? Sounds like a tall order for sure. I like Kieran's idea, the only thing I would add potentially would be nudity. But in all seriousness: a real GS race (not PGS) with a longer format to allow a more interesting course, and possibly a Super G would do wonders I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Ace* Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Media exposure, big time sponsors, events at bigger((hate to say it)more crowded mountains). One thing I think that needs to happen is a Freecarve competition. Get alpine snowboarding AWAY from Sl and GS racing. I think that will make it much more appealing to the general public. A big hurdle in the process is getting it to be accepted by mainstream snowboarding. I think the alpine industry should make itself known in the big ski publications with ads and such before it even begins to think about putting out a carve specific magazine. Why doesn't Bomber take out an ad in POWDER magazine? Have you guys ever considered such a thing? Thinking broader than ski only helps too. Why not contact Men's Health, or Outdoor Living. There are soooo many useful entities out there. Having a ready to publish article with photos and such can be really appealing to almost magazine. Movies are a HUGE promoter too. I am not talking about a feature length carving movie, but certainly a segment in a Standard or Absinthe Films movie could do wonders for the sport. I guess the big thing is knowing the right people who know the right people, networking is key! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 So real action way they can see it, real EC-carve contest on slope where whole track is visible linked-turn limbo contest, every successive pole is 1" lower? kinda gimmicky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Some session ideas be it SES or ECES I've been kicking around are: Local mountain (Aspen/Stratton) to list event on website with our logo and carving pictures, and brief write up or schedule of events I try this every year with Aspen. they list it, but no one ever looks at these things! Warren Miller, this has been a dream for Jack and I for years. The ultimate would be to have some footage of our events show up in a WM movie. Me too Geoff! If you can figure out how to get him to just put a minute of carving into his next movie, PLEASE let me know! Local sponsors to kick the event up a notch with some music, DJ etc. Getting them to come out is painful. I tried last year with the local news and they said they would, but never did. This year the response was "last year was an olympic year, and this year there's nothing going on". i said "but you guys didn't come out" and there was no response. SES/ECES advertising posters situated at local mountains and ski/snowboard shops thought about this too, but who looks at these things? Advertising $$ need to be spent wisely because it costs a lot to print good color "posters" or even an 8X10. responses posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think there needs to be more exposure at the retail level. I am asked about my equipment almost every time I ride and am constantly hearing people say they would like to try a carving set up. So, if you ride in Colorado, Park City Vermont or Whistler you can demo the gear. If you are any where else you had better know somebody who already has gear, and then you might be looking at renting ski boots. I would love to see a Bomber or Donek tent next to the Burton tent during demo days. Maybe SES needs to go on tour? Great idea, but the problem with this is that if there are so few people buying the equipment, retailers won't carry it. It's $$ that are being stagnant and not moving, and for these guys, that means everything. We are at SIA every year and we get the same response as you do, eyes glaze over and roll.....In the past we've had a few retailers just carry one binding on display, and when someone wants one they just order it from us. We'd be willing to work with any store, so if you know of one please send them our way. This is also the problem with demos. To be able to demo carving gear, you need an entire set (10 pairs) of boots for every size range. You also need at least 5 boards and bindings. No retail store is going to carry this if they are not moving product from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Media exposure, big time sponsors, events at bigger((hate to say it)more crowded mountains).One thing I think that needs to happen is a Freecarve competition. Get alpine snowboarding AWAY from Sl and GS racing. I think that will make it much more appealing to the general public. A big hurdle in the process is getting it to be accepted by mainstream snowboarding. I think the alpine industry should make itself known in the big ski publications with ads and such before it even begins to think about putting out a carve specific magazine. Why doesn't Bomber take out an ad in POWDER magazine? Have you guys ever considered such a thing? Thinking broader than ski only helps too. Why not contact Men's Health, or Outdoor Living. There are soooo many useful entities out there. Having a ready to publish article with photos and such can be really appealing to almost magazine. Movies are a HUGE promoter too. I am not talking about a feature length carving movie, but certainly a segment in a Standard or Absinthe Films movie could do wonders for the sport. I guess the big thing is knowing the right people who know the right people, networking is key! Ace great idea, but this requires $$$ and unless one of us wins the Lottery and is willing to help the sport grow I don't think Fin, Sean or Bruce have the extra $$$ for marketing. A good example of this is the Carving Magazine Alex from G-Force tried to create. He couldn't get enough advertising $ raised to print and distribute the magazine. The real challenge comes down to $$$, our local binding and board builders have such tight profit margins that they can't afford advertizing. I think there needs to be more exposure at the retail level. I am asked about my equipment almost every time I ride and am constantly hearing people say they would like to try a carving set up. So, if you ride in Colorado, Park City Vermont or Whistler you can demo the gear. If you are any where else you had better know somebody who already has gear, and then you might be looking at renting ski boots. I would love to see a Bomber or Donek tent next to the Burton tent during demo days. Maybe SES needs to go on tour? On paper this idea sounds great but having demo centers situated at key resorts in North America requires several different pieces of a puzzle. 1. A shop owner or mountain committed to provide demos and sell equipment 2 . A knowledgeable employee who can not only sell the gear but assist in equipment set up 3. Demo insurance 4. Consistent sales and demo volume We had Startingate in VT, and another shop at the base of Mt. Snow that sold carving gear. The problem was that the equipment is expensive and the shop owners aren't willing to fork out $$$ for minimal sales. Plus they need to have a knowledgeable employee staffed. A lot of people will want to test new gear and then will turn to eBay and BOL classifieds to by cheaper gear. There is no incentive for an owner to stick to selling carving gear. We are such a small group compared to skiers and softbooters that retailers would see maybe 1% of their sales if not less come from alpine equipment. A good example of a demo center is Joerg's Pureboarding center at Berkshire East. The only way the Pureboarding demo center was able to happen was because Dingbat works at Berkshire East and was willing to supply demos and is of course committed to our sport. Another thing we need is a professional looking press kit we can distribute with photos and videos of our events and carvers so we can try to attract sponsors. Keep the ideas flowing So who's got some extra $$$ laying around to help us out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Has anyone ever tried to put together an event that isn't bound by these organizations so that they can create something more awesome, and try to get coverage/interest in it from athletes? Sounds like a tall order for sure.Yes, Chris Klug was trying to work on something similar and even he, the all mighty of carving, was having some issues with getting it together. I think he's still trying, and we are giving him all the support we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Why doesn't Bomber take out an ad in POWDER magazine? Have you guys ever considered such a thing? Thinking broader than ski only helps too. Why not contact Men's Health, or Outdoor Living. There are soooo many useful entities out there. Having a ready to publish article with photos and such can be really appealing to almost magazine. Because ads START at $5,000, and we just don't have that kind of money. We used to advertise in Backcountry skier for our tele/split binding, and a small 1/4 page ad placed somewhere random in the mag in 3 issues was over $5K. This is the biggest problem, the $$. I hate to say it, but when Burton was putting $$ towards advertising and media towards the sport, it was moving forward. When Burton pulled out of it, that's when everyone (all the jibbers) failed to think it was cool anymore. I agree Ace, that we do need more exposure at more crowded mountains. We tried to have a tent at USASA Nationals for years now, since it is at Copper and in our backyard basically. We know all the media and sponsor people at Copper. They said it would cost us $10K (!!!) just to have a tent in the plaza because we would be treated the same as Coca Cola and whoever else big names there are there. We're a super small company just trying to make ends meet. we certainly don't have that kind of cash for advertising. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Geoff, at least we are both on the same level of thinking. I think we both just had the same ideas! It's great, but this is the problem. We (the industry people) have been over this in our heads and had meetings about it amongst ourselves, but we keep shooting down the same ideas. Now, we are opening it up to you guys. If we shoot something down and you think it's still viable, PLEASE let us know how we can do it! Volunteers are great, and having you guys out there promoting the sport is an invaluable resource that we all appreciate and would not survive without. However, something else needs to happen in order for us all to keep the sport growing, and alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think this needs to be a group effort with a combination of things. Combine the magazine ad with the demo road trip. We would need a sharp website to match the magazine ad with a slick video like this but feature all turn types not just EC. Schedule Loddo for the editing and maybe queequeg and/or Blueb to make the website. Get a list together of hosts for the road trippers to stay at from the forum to cut costs. Get volunteers together to work the tents at demo sites. Do this for 5 years and maybe we will get somewhere! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 linked-turn limbo contest, every successive pole is 1" lower? kinda gimmicky.I like the idea, but are you talking at the SES or ECES? We did this and it's super fun, but trying to get the mountain to help us set up for it is a pain. We try to keep our askings to a minimum so we can concentrate more on the grooming. However, something to think about again for next year!Will it draw a crowd though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Will it draw a crowd though?thats the thing.giant and supergiant slalom ski races manage to draw crowds in europe, usually all parts of a course are filmed and shown in the finishing area. piggybacking onto those races seems the best way to get people accustomed to seeing the different style/sport. but i'd guess that's been tried before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I think this needs to be a group effort with a combination of things.Combine the magazine ad with the demo road trip. We would need a sharp website to match the magazine ad with a slick video like this but feature all turn types not just EC. Schedule Loddo for the editing and maybe queequeg and/or Blueb to make the website. Get a list together of hosts for the road trippers to stay at from the forum to cut costs. Get volunteers together to work the tents at demo sites. Do this for 5 years and maybe we will get somewhere! :D This is a great idea! However, we would need someone to foot the bill for the traveling expenses, because a truck would be needed (ok the Bomber truck) and gas is $3/gal. Would we charge for demos? That's how we can justify doing the events that we do now. If we charge for demos, would people still be interested in trying it? What magazine do we put this in? Just one? Which one? and how would we pay for said magazine ad? I'm just being devil's advocate. Guess it all comes down to $$. anybody got some we could have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 This is a great idea! However, we would need someone to foot the bill for the traveling expenses, because a truck would be needed (ok the Bomber truck) and gas is $3/gal. Would we charge for demos? That's how we can justify doing the events that we do now. If we charge for demos, would people still be interested in trying it? What magazine do we put this in? Just one? Which one? and how would we pay for said magazine ad? I'm just being devil's advocate. Guess it all comes down to $$. anybody got some we could have? split it between all interested parties. The key part is this has to be a situation where you raise awareness and access to the equipment. The money is an issue of course but as a business you have to spend money to make money... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 thats the thing.giant and supergiant slalom ski races manage to draw crowds in europe, usually all parts of a course are filmed and shown in the finishing area. piggybacking onto those races seems the best way to get people accustomed to seeing the different style/sport. but i'd guess that's been tried before. well, sort of.When we went to the World Cup Race at Telluride, the snowboard races were a day ahead of all the other races. One problem with the exposure was that - they were a day ahead so most other sponsors were not even set up yet. The other problem was that the finish line was WAY up the mountain (we had to haul our tent and other gear up there - fun stuff!) whereas the boardercross and other events the finish line was almost in the plaza. The only reason they let us be there, amongst Taco Bell and Visa, was becasue no one else cared nor wanted to be there. Plus, it was 1/2 way up the mountain (which I had to explain in detail to the sponsor person who had no idea) so there was no public involvement. This is also the problem at Copper, where the races finish at the top of the Eagle chair lift. just to spectate you have to ride the chair up and then hike up a little hill. Doesn't do much for the interest factor. Howelson is our best bet, as you can basically drive to the finish line and even sit inside and drink hot cocoa while you watch the riders. Also, the entire town of Steamboat is behind SSWSC. However, we still have a bit of trouble getting spectators without including music, food, and a rail jam. ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 The key part is this has to be a situation where you raise awareness and access to the equipment. The money is an issue of course but as a business you have to spend money to make money... :) definitely agreed on both arguments. but, you can't spend money you don't have or else you end up like all the other defunct snowboard companies (anyone remember Twist? They made it big fast so they took all their friends heliskiing. BOMB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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