Straightliner not charged?

[dano]

Someone mentioned this accident to me today and I looked it up.

http://k2radio.com/hogadon-deaths-no-crime-committed-audio/

Basically a straightline snowboarder hit and killed a mother and her 5 year old on a black run while they were trying to put a ski back on. "Massive chest injuries" On Christmas eve! :(

I don't get it...if they were downhill they had the right of way. The boarder could not stop in time...????

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Someone mentioned this accident to me today and I looked it up.

http://k2radio.com/hogadon-deaths-no-crime-committed-audio/

Basically a straightline snowboarder hit and killed a mother and her 5 year old on a black run while they were trying to put a ski back on. "Massive chest injuries" On Christmas eve! :(

I don't get it...if they were downhill they had the right of way. The boarder could not stop in time...????

Tragic.

I believe it was not the mother who died.

It appears it was the snowboarder and the child.

The death of a snowboarder and a young skier last month at Hogadon was not the result of any crime.

The sorrow of the Mothers in this case must be excruciating. So many lives are changed in these horrible accidents. Mothers, Fathers, family, friends, responders, so many.

[Buell]

Yeah, that ruling is just sickening!

I read in one report that the straightliner had been warned by ski patrol 4 years ago for straightlining the same run.

Many of the accounts I have read puts that run as a blue in most resorts.

[dano]

Tragic.

I believe it was not the mother who died.

It appears it was the snowboarder and the child.

The sorrow of the Mothers in this case must be excruciating. So many lives are changed in these horrible accidents. Mothers, Fathers, family, friends, responders, so many.

http://trib.com/news/updates/article_4300370e-2403-11e0-89b8-001cc4c002e0.html

Also, it's confusing as the boarder is refered to as "Shirley"...his last name.

Super BAD christmas memories for both families goin forward...:(

Still, the boarder was so at fault...makes no sense. Why have the code at all?

[Buell]

I have not seen any follow up to the woman's condition, but I am pretty sure she was severely injured in the impact.

The woman and kid were under a roller and, it sounds like, could not be seen by the straightliner.

I cannot imagine how you can kill someone and not be held liable for anything (even if you also died).

[Dan]

From the article: "Investigators found no chargeable activity."

That is completely ridiculous. I could understand a finding of "the snowboarder was clearly negligent and we have grounds to charge him with manslaughter by negligence, but he died in the wreck, so we won't prosecute."

Claiming no chargeable activity suggests they had already made a decision not to bring suit before they did their investigation.

Such a shame.

[Seraph]

I have not seen any follow up to the woman's condition, but I am pretty sure she was severely injured in the impact.

The woman and kid were under a roller and, it sounds like, could not be seen by the straightliner.

I cannot imagine how you can kill someone and not be held liable for anything (even if you also died).

When a subject of a criminal investigation dies, chargeable case or not, case is closed. If the subject is found guilty at trial, and dies before sentencing, case is closed. Unfortunately that's how the justice system works.

[Galen]

When a subject of a criminal investigation dies, chargeable case or not, case is closed. If the subject is found guilty at trial, and dies before sentencing, case is closed. Unfortunately that's how the justice system works.

Yup, that's how it went for Ken Lay, and why his family was able to keep most of the money he stole. Died before damages were awarded.

[mykcuz]

you can still pursue the estate in civil court.

The skier code also says not to stop where you can't be seen from above, ie, under a roller. First thing i was taught was to put ski poles or skis in an X above your position for safety. also move to the side of the trail to put on your ski. different on a green slope where you expect beginners arent thinking and fall constantly and arent always mobile enough to get off the trail. But skiers code is not necessarily the law.

[dano]

you can still pursue the estate in civil court.

The skier code also says not to stop where you can't be seen from above, ie, under a roller. First thing i was taught was to put ski poles or skis in an X above your position for safety. also move to the side of the trail to put on your ski. different on a green slope where you expect beginners arent thinking and fall constantly and arent always mobile enough to get off the trail. But skiers code is not necessarily the law.

So if your kid loses a ski/yardsales under a roller you take off the remaining ski, hike up to the lip, position your poles in an X, hike down to the lost ski, carry both skis back up to the lip, grab your poles, put on your skis and then go.

It certainly beats death, but I've never seen it done.

Straightliners deserve to die. Too bad he couldn't just turn into the trees and not drag a 2nd grade girl with him.

[Steve Prokopiw]

and we will be skiing tommorrow.I think I would be one of those dads that goes to jail for beating a straightliner senseless.Not proud of it, but there it is.In this case he paid the ultimate price.

Our prayers go out to their families.

[Guest]

Straightliners deserve to die. Too bad he couldn't just turn into the trees and not drag a 2nd grade girl with him.

It wasn't his fault. There is only so much one can do when there are people hidden under a roller. The mom was a ski patroller and should have moved the kid away from a roller and harms way. It was no one person's fault.

Get off your high horse.

[Petrol]

It wasn't his fault. There is only so much one can do when there are people hidden under a roller. The mom was a ski patroller and should have moved the kid away from a roller and harms way. It was no one person's fault.

Get off your high horse.

Dittos

sounds like the "straightliner" was on a run that appeared to be empty & inviting of speed. I've been surprised in the past by "campers" seemingly enjoying a liesurely mid morning break obscurred by rollers before, albeit to much less dramatic end.

a tragic day for all involved that could have been avoided had BOTH the "straightliner" not been riding so fast there/then AND had the mom quickly moved her child and self out of the blind spot before reassembly.

[philw]

Sounds unfortunate. In the UK, when you read newspapers, well it's hard to see what the people in the court actually saw, so I would usually guess that irrespective of what sort of story they make of it, the court guys usually get it right.

[mykcuz]

So if your kid loses a ski/yardsales under a roller you take off the remaining ski, hike up to the lip, position your poles in an X, hike down to the lost ski, carry both skis back up to the lip, grab your poles, put on your skis and then go.

It certainly beats death, but I've never seen it done.

Straightliners deserve to die. Too bad he couldn't just turn into the trees and not drag a 2nd grade girl with him.

well considering that i have common sense, and that i grew up skiing, i would pick up the ski and move over to the side of the trail where there is a hugely greater chance of being out of peoples way. then i would stick my poles about 3 feet uphill from me.

Growing up a skier on a mountain with many beginners i often would stop put my skis in an x above someone to make it clear to others to avoid that spot, then help them put on their skis. First i asked if the needed a hand. (See skiers guide to picking up chicks.)

And everytime i stop to let a crowd pass me or to take a rest, I look uphill, if i can't see people coming down i know i am unsafe.

The fact remains there is no speed limit on a mountain on most trails(slow down signs) are there freak situations? yes. am i blaming the mom, no. I am saying it is possible for someone to be on an uncrowded trail having fun riding with some speed while still being under control. Ans sometimes people take a spill at a blind spot and wind up being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Personally, I speed check at blindspots, such as where trails dropoff and you can't see downhill.

Now if this happened on a smooth trail where you could see far ahead of you, and this guy wasn't in enough control to see the downed skier and avert his path or God forbid help a child, Then this would be the outcome we all fear as we post stories of being rammed in the back, and manslaughter would be the least acceptable punishment.

[twelsch42]

How do you get going fast enough to lay down some carves without straightlining?

[CarvingScooby]

How do you get going fast enough to lay down some carves without straightlining?

I use to think that way = speed to create the momentum naah. I'm not talking straightlining here, to scary...

I follow the pros... and I realize u don't need those speed...I saw Blueb doing EC on his 1st turn from stop.

Momentum...=> Timing, right body position = u got these right u can lay low.

Hope this help, stay safe...

RT

[Buell]

I use to think that way = speed to create the momentum naah. I'm not talking straightlining here, to scary...

I follow the pros... and I realize u don't need those speed...I saw Blueb doing EC on his 1st turn from stop.

Momentum...=> Timing, right body position = u got these right u can lay low.

Hope this help, stay safe...

RT

Yes. Balance and positioning. Try balancing on the edge instead of pushing against the edge. It requires more skill but less speed. It is also an important skill to learn for adjusting your edge pressure in mixed snow conditions or firm to icy days. A drill I do a lot when I need to recenter myself is to carve turns as slow as I can. Start on a flatter and wider run. Balance. It is tricky but it will improve your riding.

If you want to ride with more speed (I usually do) of course you run straight for a short distance before beginning your turns. That is far different from what is being described here in this case.

[Buell]

Straighlining is not the issue here. Straightlining when you cannot see over rolls and might injure or kill someone behind those rolls is the problem. This case is a clear example of possible, although rare, consequences.

Absolutely, people should stay out / get out from under blind roles.

But regardless, people regularly stop under rolls. Other people fall under rolls and have trouble getting up. Many beginners go really slow, and often from side to side, on the steep face under a roll. If it is a kid, they usually have at least one other person with them under the roll. In all these cases (some legit, some not) the people will be hidden from view to a rider coming from above.

Resort ski runs are not closed race courses where one has the expectation of a clear run and can ride flat out. In a resort, one must always ride with the knowledge that someone could be under the blind roll. This guy did not and lost his life, killed another, and seriously injured another.

[CarvingScooby]

I saw twice BLOODY accident in 2011: One I witness all the way before & after (gd thing no stretcher needed) and Second the after math....both need a stretcher. The lastscene I thought of taking my camera and post it here, some how didn't...too much

.... there are people hidden under a roller...

Rule #1: I have to be able to stop. If I can't see where I'm going, I slow down PERIOD

Rule #3: Do not stop where u obstruct a trailer or are not visible from above. Too many times someone behind/under the roller, either standing, sitting or skiing... I voluntary mention to people to move away from these spots...(I don't always get positve attitude thou..:o) coz I'm assuming they don't realise...they can't be seen from above...

Many parents teach todlers (they are so tiny that their height is blocked by a tiny roller) on blue and black runs...Why they do this ? And at the same time intermediate/advance skiier or boarders are chased away from green runs...:rolleyes:

Happy Snow, stay safe

RT

[BlueB]

Roy said many words of wisdom...

As sad as it may saund, when you brake one of the rules, even if you are the only injured party, you are at guilt, or partial guilt, depending on how many rules the other party broke... In the tragic incident described in OP, both parties broke a rule and sadly, both died. No one should have the right to pursue anything - common sense.

Couple of years ago I had this situation:

Carving down a mostly empty, pretty frozen, black run, I see a small kid standing on top of a roller, father about 20m below. I carve wide around him, pretty much using him as the center point of my arc. As I came around him, I saw that I was heading straight into his little brother strugling to stand up under the roller! As I was already fully laid and locked, I knew if I tried to brake, I would slide right into him, so I tightened the carve. Tail broke the carve and I still clipped the tips of his skis a bit. Very close call and very scary!

Now imagine if I had hit the kid. Would they be at complete guilt, for being under a blind roller, or for being, in the first place, on a run where they sholdn't be at all? I do not think so... I was supposed to be in control enough to stop or avoid if something unexpected happened. Luckilly, I was, just bearly... Brrrr.

[dano]

Dittos

sounds like the "straightliner" was on a run that appeared to be empty & inviting of speed. I've been surprised in the past by "campers" seemingly enjoying a liesurely mid morning break obscurred by rollers before, albeit to much less dramatic end.

a tragic day for all involved that could have been avoided had BOTH the "straightliner" not been riding so fast there/then AND had the mom quickly moved her child and self out of the blind spot before reassembly.

I don't believe you can defend straightlining 60 mph on any slope that might have hidden skiers below rollers. The little girl would have been just as dead if she was snow plowing at 15 mph under the roller and the jackass hit her. It was the straightliner's fault 100% by gambling the run would be empty under that roller at warp speed.

All I really got out of this accident ( other than pissed off and more paranoid) is that when I'm with my kids ( aged 8 and 10 ) and they wipe out in a bad spot, I will HOLLER LIKE A LOON FOR THEM TO GET TO THE SIDE OF THE !@#$%^& TRAIL!!!, and I will bring them their skis or whatever.

[dano]

It wasn't his fault. There is only so much one can do when there are people hidden under a roller. The mom was a ski patroller and should have moved the kid away from a roller and harms way. It was no one person's fault.

Get off your high horse.

Wait til you have kids.

[queequeg]

All I really got out of this accident ( other than pissed off and more paranoid) is that when I'm with my kids ( aged 8 and 10 ) and they wipe out in a bad spot, I will HOLLER LIKE A LOON FOR THEM TO GET TO THE SIDE OF THE !@#$%^& TRAIL!!!, and I will bring them their skis or whatever.

The biggest mistake I see parents making when skiing with their kids is not being pretty much right on top of their kids the whole time they are on the slopes. Kids are tiny. They generally cannot be seen behind even the tinyest of bumps, but if you are standing near them (preferrably directly uphill of them) uphill traffic will avoid you, and therefore your kids.

A few years ago I had to take some pretty insane evasive manouvers to avoid a child who was hidden behind a headwall. The child was dressed from head to toe in white, and about three feet tall—basically completely camoflaged against the snow. Even her little skis were white if I recall. I'm sure her morbidly stupid parents thought this was very cute. Where were her parents? Standing on top of the headwall way above their child (like 50 feet away). I managed to get around the child safely, nearly wrecking myself to avoid the kid; and then the self-righteous dad *purposefully* rammed into me from behind with his skis, for having nearly hit his child. I should have followed him down the mountain and reported him to patroll, but for some reason I didn't. My point is: best way to keep your kid safe is to keep him/her visible, and to stand VERY NEAR them because if they are small, they cannot be seen.

This was a on a diamond too, someplace the child had absolutely no business being.

Otherwise, if I fall under a roller or a headwall, I scurry my ass to the side as fast as humanly possible. If I had a small child with me I would do absolutely everything in my power to move that kid to the side immediately. I see people lollygagging under headwalls and rollers all to often on the slopes: it's stupid, the same way that playing street hockey on a blind curve is stupid.

I'm not saying it's ok to straightline and take other people's lives in your own hands, but when people place themselves in a position where they cannot be seen, they are going to get hit, and it will be their fault when they do.

[Guest]

Wait til you have kids.

I am not sure what your point is with this statement. It was a tragic accident, and bot the boarder and the parent were at fault. I don't see you railing against the mom, so just because some people ski/ride differently from you you are getting upset.

Frankly, if I can see an entire run from the top and have seen no one from the get-go in front of me, I would assume that is the case while continuing down the slop. That is what he did, albeit at a high rate of speed. Such accidents (and that is what it is, an accident) will continue to happen. It was a terrible set of circumstances, yes, but such is life sometimes.

Can you honestly say you have never had to change course or make evasive maneuvers after coming over a knoll due to someone being on the other side? I don't believe anyone here can