Burton "Easy Rider" lifted edges on kiddie boards?

[Jack M]

Buying the 8yo a board... he wants a Burton of course. Anybody have experience with the Chopper and other kiddie boards which have the outer inch or so of the perimeter lifted off the snow? Is this a good thing, or does it throw the kid off balance when they go to tip the board on edge? I would think this would cause two tipping points - one to get the board up onto the perimeter area, and another to get it up on edge... seems weird? Or does it work? I imagine it helps reduce downhill edge catches, which would be awesome, but at what cost?

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't think you're the target market for that board, Jack. I expect it's aimed at kids who will skid their way to the next jump, not kids whose dad will be on them to be using their edges well.

[RideGuy]

I bought a Burton Chopper for my 6 year old after last season. It's going to be an x-mas present for him. He tried snowboarding once last year and did allot better then I thought he would.

The concave shape is very subtle. I don't think it has enough shape to balance on area between the base and the edge.

Also, the board has close to 0 camber. I'm guessing that's to help them pivot easier.

I can take some pics of the edge and camber if you like.

[bobdea]

not sure if the current stuff is the same but the older LTR (learn to ride) rental were pretty good for learning because it was designed so it was extremely forgiving from sidecut to bevel to binding and boot. guessing the smaller sizes are choppers or pretty similar.

also, historically the chopper was pretty good because burton seemed to be ahead of the game for kids boards. made theirs a little wider, softer and with a bigger nose similar in height and and length to a much larger board so Jr can plow through ruts and not be cartwheeling.

[Miltie]

Hey Jack, My 6 year old daughter has 2 of the new choppers (100 and 110) with turned up edges or convex base.

She started out on a flat 88cm board and had no issues transitioning to the different set-up. She actually learned to spin by herself after watching some jibbers at the end of last season (scary!).

I think the benefit is that she catches the down hill edge less - whch is a good thing. She has fun so that's the most important litmus test.

Take care, Tom

[lowrider]

Having outfitted three kids in both skis and boards over the last 20 years the one and ony lesson i have learned is, if they don't like it and you do you will be buying them something else very soon. First board i bought was a carving board, how do you think that worked out ? Took ten years before one of them returned to carving on a real snowboard. His choice good or bad is my .

[Mike T]

My daughter is 8 this year as well; last year midseason she got a new Chicklet (Chopper with girlie graphics) 110 to replace her older Chicklet 90. She loved it from first run. Her 90, she couldn't bend at all (too stiff) and was afraid to even try toesides because she kept catching edges. The 110 is much softer and much less prone to edge catches. I've waxed it a few times and it doesn't seem like there are two tipping points, just like it's got a lot of base edge bevel.

Unless your son is the second coming of Shaun White, and was born with a feel for his edges, I suspect it'll suit him fine. For reference, my daughter had over 100 total days on skis when I got her the new board, and was taking multi-week ski lessons with the bigger kids, and she was *still* having trouble with the older, stiffer, less-base-bevel 90. I didn't see any other companies putting as much thought into designing gear for the youngest riders as Burton, although I still say they need to wake up and realize that their smallest bindings are WAY TOO BIG for their smallest boots!

[Sinecure]

I haven't taught a kid on one of these yet, but it seems like a great idea to me. I'm hopeful that it will help eliminate the heelside to toeside transition. Kids have trouble grasping the idea of twisting a board (pedaling, whatever you want to call it). I'm thinking that the beveling will make this a little easier, and will certainly eliminate some of the heel edge catching when sliding toeside.

[Jack M]

Thanks all for the detailed responses!

[KingCrimson]

They are rockered as well as convex..If they do happen to catch, they tend spin around and stall instead of crushing the rider.

My nephew killing it at age 2. You can see the rocker.

My 270# brother rode it, he didn't like it very much.

[KarverKai]

Jack,

I have a Lamar Dragon 110 that is my goto board and the Virus Rookie 99. They both have that frown look and the edges only turn up what dada filed them too. I am now riding the big mountain with the LCI and most kids I see on those boards are either spinning in circles or side slipping down the mountain. I make turns, can traverse and can get to the jumps I see with minimal skidding.

Working with dada and the LCI has helped me a lot. Yesterday I rode the Rookie and was loving it. I am starting to roll the board on edge, like on my skateboard, at the top of the turn instead of sliding it first then engaging my edge. I was even able to ride Switchback, which is firm for Colorado but Geoff said not quite as firm as where you are. from top to bottom with no falls or stops. I even beat the usual LCI riders to the bottom. :p

BTW I am 46 pounds and 47" tall with a size 1 burton moto boot in Flow bindings. Dada hasn't bought my Full Tilt boots or plate bindings yet. I am hoping to get those for Christmas.

Hope this helps you and your kid have as much fun as my dada and I are having.

KarverKai

_____________________________

:AR15firinSee Kevin, Kill Kevin:AR15firin

[Puddy Tat]

Yeah this lifted edge is great for beginners. The edge catches and slams are gone, my 5 year old was on a 90cm flat based chicklet at the end of last season and woul catch edges whenever the hill got flatter. She's just 6 this season and on a newer 110 cm convex chicklet this season and is riding much better with increased confidence.

My only comment is when the run gets flat it's seems to be harder for her to get an edge in but then again she doesn't seem to catch the edge there either. All in all I would recommend them.

@Mike T I agree and I think except for really little kids the Freestyle Jr single strap binding is garbage. My daughters feet kept twisting in them last year. I picked up some K2 Vandal/Kat bindings (boys/girls) for my kids.

Cheers,

Dave

[Beckmann AG]

Anybody have experience with the Chopper and other kiddie boards which have the outer inch or so of the perimeter lifted off the snow?

Yes.

Is this a good thing

No, not if you wish to learn how to actually use a snowboard. If your interest runs toward two-footed saucer sledding, then it's OK.

or does it throw the kid off balance when they go to tip the board on edge?

You tend to see a 'toggle' through the transition, followed by wash and correction.

In side by side comparisons, assuming one takes the time to set the gear up properly, the rider shows more confidence and ability on the traditional base.

Maybe a Pico-Schtubby Safari?

[Steve Prokopiw]

that they use when they go back and forth between skiing and boarding.I chose it because it is nearly an inch narrower than the equivalent chopper.The single biggest factor for me when teaching hundreds of kids over the years has been that the vast majority of kids boards are too wide to facilitate reasonable response to toeside input.I have always shifted the bidings as far to the toeside as the discs will allow and that has helped but the width and flex of kids boards is rarely proportionate.I have never been a fan of the design philosophy of "too big to fall".

[dantheman0177]

My nephew killing it at age 2. You can see the rocker.

I'm inspired!

I have a 13 month old, so she will be a bit over 2 at next year's SES. And my wife looked at this pic and said "That's Olivia next year" so it seems like we have a goal. Oh yeah!

[Puddy Tat]

Yeah this lifted edge is great for beginners. The edge catches and slams are gone, my 5 year old was on a 90cm flat based chicklet at the end of last season and woul catch edges whenever the hill got flatter. She's just 6 this season and on a newer 110 cm convex chicklet this season and is riding much better with increased confidence.

My only comment is when the run gets flat it's seems to be harder for her to get an edge in but then again she doesn't seem to catch the edge there either. All in all I would recommend them.

Thought I'd give an update on my experience with the whole Convex Base thing. My six year old daughter rode a convex based 110cm Burton Chicklet with K2 Kat bindings all season (about 20 times) until the last time we went out. She started on the bunny hill in December and last weeekend was tearing down Blues solidly and beginning to venture onto Blacks. Because she had some crashes due to the convex nature of the base I've put her onto a flat based board for the last couple of days of the season. The text below is an excerpt from an email I dropped to a friend of mind about how Zoe is riding.

At six Zoë rides better than most adults you see on the hills. Nice, upright stance, looking completely in control. She's actually carving on her edges on shallower terrain. When there isn’t anything around her for scale you can’t tell how old she is when she is riding. BTW I got Zoë off of the 110cm Chicklet and onto a larger, flat based board two weeks ago when she ran into the major limiting factor of the curved base. The curved base works great for learning, and riding at slow to medium speeds as it makes it difficult to catch your edge when you are learning. However once to know what you are doing and travelling faster, the board becomes death in the flats at high speeds as it is difficult to get any edge in and it just wants to saucer around. In the flats this makes it difficult to hold your line, or keep the board straight, and you end up catching edges at high speeds. This happened to her twice at two different hills (Louise and Sunshine) on two consecutive days on exactly the same type of terrain. 35-40km/h to toeside edge catch, hitting hard enough to make me cringe. Anyways she had no problem transitioning directly to a flat based board even after riding the convex base for most of the season.

Again, great board for learning on for a beginner intermediate, but once they know how to ride fast and maintain higher speeds in flatter terrain they should probably switch to a flat based board.

This is pretty much inline with what Beckman said, except I think the board is good for beginners. Just be prepared to buy another stick when they outgrow the convex base. Again this probably isn't an issue for kids whose parents are taking them 3 or 4 times a season. But for kids who are getting out more they will outgrow these.

Cheers,

Dave

[Rob Stevens]

... You don't buy one, as it is not much good after day 1.

[Puddy Tat]

... You don't buy one, as it is not much good after day 1.

And the stupidity is that various companies are making these convex based boards for adult riders now too. Here's a review of one such board.

http://www.snowboard-review.com/snowboard_reviews/review/tangent/

To be honest i can see the application to rails, boxes, and flatland tricks, but i think you're giving up a ton of performance and it probably isn't going to hold a line very well going flat and straight, so i question the use.

Anyway now softbooters will be saucering all over the hills. Beats skidding I guess.

Dave

[BobD]

I've got a twenty year old Morrow board, convex base, and powder scoop nose and tail, that I learned to board on. I didn't realize it was cutting edge technology.

Didn't Burton have campaign to let rental shops know to detune tips and tails for beginners many years ago? Now that did make a lot of sense.