Gromel brand alpine boards ?

[SteveInOregon]

I did a search ( I know that's a 1st for me , lol )

I snooped the threads here for any info about this Russian ? brand of alp sticks, but no savy nada.

They are attempting to sell them cheep on Ebay.

On their site they are dropping names like Prior and Alpine Punk as comparisons.

Are these guys new or have they been around awhile ?

If there new has anyone drove one around or bought one ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-ALPINE-CARVING-SNOWBOARD-GROMEL-STILETTO-171-/260699463292?pt=Snowboarding&hash=item3cb2e61e7c

http://www.gromelsnowboards.com/BoardReviews/tabid/56/Default.aspx

[KingCrimson]

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27060&highlight=grommel

[SteveInOregon]

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=27060&highlight=grommel

Your a genius, ok Your not a genius , I'm just a MORON, ok I admit it now R U happy, lol.

I searched Gromel with 1 M and got nothing back , hell I even searched by pasting the entire web site in the search field.:o

[KingCrimson]

Your a genius, ok Your not a genius , I'm just a MORON, ok I admit it now R U happy, lol.

I searched Gromel with 1 M and got nothing back , hell I even searched by pasting the entire web site in the search field.:o

Photodad was incapable of counting M's I guess..

[DiveBomber]

Your a genius, ok Your not a genius , I'm just a MORON, ok I admit it now R U happy, lol.

I searched Gromel with 1 M and got nothing back , hell I even searched by pasting the entire web site in the search field.:o

you mean "you're"

[tex1230]

Photodad was incapable of counting M's I guess..

Tell you anything? Steve in Oregon = Photodad's love child

[*Ace*]

All nice and G-rated now....ahahah, what a joke!

You are going to get what you pay for...I said that earlier, but someone deleted it.

Gromel has been around since the late 1980s, so they have some experience making boards.

I have no personal experience with them, but I think there are better boards to be had out there.

My advice to you is to let it go.

If you really want it that badly, you can probably sell it off for the same kind of low price you would be buying it for from Ebay.

I would keep an eye out for quality name branded boards in the For Sale thread.

I sold a Coiler PureRace188 under $200 shipped a while back, deals are to be had for good boards too...

[Trenchman]

They are made in Ohio...so that is keeping it local right?

[Jack M]

ok, fine, I think those boards look like a joke, sorry. JMHO. Ace is right, you get what you pay for.

[SteveInOregon]

you mean "you're"

Ya I said "I" admit it, ahhhhh but admitting ones shortcomings is the 1st step to reformation ( what if it's genetic ??? lol.

I want to be a intellectual geek *sigh, I guess I will have to settle for being a charming funny tuff masculine chick magnet :p

So any ways , they have been around since the 80's hummmm, would be nice to ride one just to compare to the well known boards they are dropping names about.

I don't want to buy one, if I am gonna buy new I will support an American maker, besides I cant even handle the used RennTiger I just bought last week which I rode for the 1st time yesterday, it is a lot stiffer and it hooks and holds a hard carve better than my well worn Oxygen Proton .

I wont be ready for a new board until I all least break my collar bone on the RT, lol

[valsam]

ok, fine, I think those boards look like a joke, sorry. JMHO. Ace is right, you get what you pay for.

Ace ain't right Jack, in alpine gear especially you don't get what you pay for but you pay much more for what you get!

Really why is a wood core plate that is sold here going for 400$ when a skateboard (looks to me very similar hardware cost!)with carbon fibre and air chambers in the wood core goes for 100$ ?

And please don't tell me that skateboards sell in the millions and alpine gear in the hundreds!

Please don't come to the conclusion that these gromel boards suck just because of there price tag,maybe they do maybe they don't!

Maybe they learned how to make a board after 30 years of trying and also don't want to make a 700% profit out of them,really how much does a board cost to make?100$ ?!

[KingCrimson]

Ace ain't right Jack, in alpine gear especially you don't get what you pay for but you pay much more for what you get!

Really why is a wood core plate that is sold here going for 400$ when a skateboard (looks to me very similar hardware cost!)with carbon fibre and air chambers in the wood core goes for 100$ ?

And please don't tell me that skateboards sell in the millions and alpine gear in the hundreds!

Please don't come to the conclusion that these gromel boards suck just because of there price tag,maybe they do maybe they don't!

Maybe they learned how to make a board after 30 years of trying and also don't want to make a 700% profit out of them,really how much does a board cost to make?100$ ?!

Don't you have something better to do?

[vapor]

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of labour/material costs etc for a custom board. The builder might be working for 4 bucks an hour if he's charging 100$ for his product:eek:

[WEBSIGHT360]

Valsam, are you trying to compare the costs of the new isolation plates to the cost of a skate board or longboard deck? There is a ton of development that went into the new isolation decks, not to mention, that there is far more hardware to be designed and manufactured for these plates systems, than there will ever be needed for a skateboard deck. Besides, there are plenty of longboard decks out there that cost between $200-$400 just for the deck alone. I think you are way out of line suggesting that alpine snowboard manufacturers are making huge profit margins on their product lines. You really think you can build a modern alpine deck for $100 worth of materials? I highly doubt it. You seem to have a long history here of constantly bitching about the price of new snowboards, particularly the metal ones(that you have not even ridden). The snowboard manufacturers that I am familiar with are certainly not living in the lap of luxury. They are decent people trying to make a living developing great new products, and trying to provide themselves, and their families with a decent way of life, just like any other honest business owner. You DO get what you pay for. $700-$1000 is not out of line for a new custom board. I paid $400 for my first snowboard in the late 80's. Is that what you expect to pay for a board today? If so, you are living in a dreamworld.

Wake up, nothing good in life is cheap or easy.

[Buell]

When over a million are sold, instead of, probably less than a hundred, the price will be much lower. :D

[Buell]

It would be interesting to see the breakdown of labour/material costs etc for a custom board. The builder might be working for 4 bucks an hour if he's charging 100$ for his product:eek:

I imagine the shop overhead, tooling, press, and materials are far more than $100 per modern board. There is also all the prototyping costs and lets not forget about the business overhead costs and time spent dealing with red tape and corresponding with us crazy customers. Just to build and ship us boards. Thank you alpine gear manufacturers.

Let me guess Valsam, never been self-employed? The costs add up.

[KingCrimson]

I imagine the shop overhead, tooling, press, and materials are far more than $100 per modern board. There is also all the prototyping costs and lets not forget about the business overhead costs and time spent dealing with red tape and corresponding with us crazy customers. Just to build and ship us boards. Thank you alpine gear manufacturers.

Let me guess Valsam, never been self-employed? The costs add up.

http://bomberonline.com/articles/building_Coiler.cfm

Seems like $100 in costs to me.. :rolleyes:

[valsam]

I imagine the shop overhead, tooling, press, and materials are far more than $100 per modern board. There is also all the prototyping costs and lets not forget about the business overhead costs and time spent dealing with red tape and corresponding with us crazy customers. Just to build and ship us boards. Thank you alpine gear manufacturers.

Let me guess Valsam, never been self-employed? The costs add up.

You are a bad guesser,i am self employed (i own my constuction company)and have pretty good living standards,even if it's not any of your busines!

I also know that alot of people who think they are good riders just because they ride good equipment or good drivers just because they ride good cars and i guess that's not a thing just in my country but its a worldwide thing and americans arent known to be an exeption!

Sorry if you guys think that it's disrespectful to the board constructors to question the cost of the equipment,as i see in here it is blasphemy to say something about a constructor or a pro rider, but isn't it also disrespectful to dis someone for selling something cheaper then you guys are use to paying without even testing it?

Is it bitching to wonder why i got a brand new 600$ board last year from an internet shop (salomon special 162)and because it was a year old model i got it with a 60% discount for 240$ and after receiving it i saw that it had a base scratch from storing (1 minute ptex fix!) and i just told the store (in Germany) that i bought from that next time if i buy again from them that i would like them to more careful, and you know what? they send me another board without them even asking me to send the other board back!(i just sent pictures of the base!)

So that made me wonder if i can get 2 600$=1200$ boards for 240$

from a retailer then how much does the retailer get them or even more how much do they actually cost to be made?

Is that so bad?

I have found allot o help in these forums and I visit the bomber site on daily bases but i receive allot of prejudice from allot in here,maybe I'm wrong in some things i write or how i write it(my english isn't that good!)

But i get it ,sometimes truth hurts and that's why allot of you react like that!

[Chris Houghton]

Wondering if you can get 2 $600 boards for $240? You already did. And it has nothing to do with the cost of making the boards. The first was last year's stock clearing out at whatever price they could get, probably below cost. Blue tomato does that every year, especially with the ones that they couldn't sell during the season. The second board was a warranty adjustment, so the charge for it went back to the manufacturer, which they had to eat as a costs of dealing with the public.

I don't have inside knowledge, but researching the cost of base material, steel edges, wood cores, triax fiberglass, carbon fiber, rubber, titanal and topsheet material, I would guess the cost is around $300 in material for a board. But like cakes and pies, having the material does not mean you can make the product. So they get something for their skill and knowledge. Then being able to tune the product for the individual rider FIRST TIME, not too soft, not too stiff, that's priceless.

Of course I'm talking Prior, Donek, Virus and others, not those serial boards.

Gromel boards, who knows. Someone buy one, ride it and report back.

[valsam]

Wondering if you can get 2 $600 boards for $240? You already did. And it has nothing to do with the cost of making the boards. The first was last year's stock clearing out at whatever price they could get, probably below cost. Blue tomato does that every year, especially with the ones that they couldn't sell during the season. The second board was a warranty adjustment, so the charge for it went back to the manufacturer, which they had to eat as a costs of dealing with the public.

I don't have inside knowledge, but researching the cost of base material, steel edges, wood cores, triax fiberglass, carbon fiber, rubber, titanal and topsheet material, I would guess the cost is around $300 in material for a board. But like cakes and pies, having the material does not mean you can make the product. So they get something for their skill and knowledge. Then being able to tune the product for the individual rider FIRST TIME, not too soft, not too stiff, that's priceless.

Of course I'm talking Prior, Donek, Virus and others, not those serial boards.

Gromel boards, who knows. Someone buy one, ride it and report back.

http://snowboardmaterials.com/pages/materials.htm

Please do the math!

As i see materials don't cost not even half of what your estimate is, and if you consider that that's just materials for 1 board how much price drop would you get if you order for mass production ?

I Would say near the 100$ which i estimated in the first place!

I also found this on the net:

"I've looked into industry statistics that are available and it generally only costs 7% of the MSRP (manufactures suggested retail price) to produce a snowboard!!"

I'm not saying that if materials cost 100$ then a boards retail should be 130-150$ because i understand that there are much more things that raise the price such as manufacturing equipment,labor wage's,taxes,electric bills,advertising and many more!

And i am sure that the guy who sold me the last year 600$ board for 240$ still made a profit(if it is anywhere near the profit margin that clothes have even with 90%discount!)

This is my opinion and if you guys like it or not i don't give a damn!

So back to GROMEL boards again, just because they sell cheaper does that make them garbage?

Has anyone even thought that maybe the people who make them sell them cheap because they are going for little or no profit just to get in the market!

I know for a fact that a factory in the Corinthian region of Austria in the 90's made the same material boards but with different names such as NALE-ELAN-CRAZYCREEK-NITRO and many others that were not even branded and i bought allot of boards from there because a friend racer that worked for them would get me the boards at wholesale(i do think that the guy made something on the side too!)and boy were the cheap compared to retail ,i payed for a nitro 177gt 200$ and after i broke it he got me the same board but with no brand name or prints on it for 130$

[queequeg]

http://snowboardmaterials.com/pages/materials.htm

I'm sure that this is where all the boutique board makers get their materials. The cat is out of the bag. Where is titanal on that list? If you think Sean, Frank, and Bruce's pricing are so uncompetitive, why don't you show 'em up with this phantom high-performance/low-cost product you seem to know so much about developing?

[Juha]

What's the point, Geeck economics:AR15firin

And my tax money is paying for them:smashfrea

[AMK]

http://snowboardmaterials.com/pages/materials.htm

Sounds really cheap. Topsheet 42$, I pay more for my business cards.

Maybe some but how that all could be possible??

[SteveInOregon]

A snowboard is a reasonably simple device, tho R&D & tech keep moving on it is not & never will = a fighter jet.

Myself I am willing to pay more $ for:

1) American, this is a big deal to me because the small garage or small shop board company in the USA is my neighbor who hold many of the same values as I do, as he or she goes so do I.

If I were Austrian I would be the same way about Austria. Conversely if there was no maker of top notch equipment in the US then I would by a new board from another "decent" country for sure.

I love cigars but I would never buy Cuban

As for Gromel I don't have anything against any folks in Russia making a cheaper board ( cheaper labor cost perhaps ) if they find a market for them bless there there hearts, I really don't see a market for lower quality in this tiny little alpine niche inside the larger snowboard community.

The only way to break into this tiny market that I as an outside observer can see is to 1) make quality ,2) dont show up until Your product is top notch al the flaws and bugs are worked out, and 3) put up an S.E.S tent and pimp out your boards like cheep hookers.

God bless the small shop folks who make quality boards for us, that must take a huge amount of dedicated discipline, pure love for the sport and the American ( ya American ) entrepreneurial spirit.

Most of us start out on quality used gear then decide to buy the best new gear for our skill and ride needs.

Continuing: 2) Hand made, i.e custom made for me personally buy a person I know, this is how my surf boards were made for me back in the day, as I got experience riding used & off the shelf spec boards I found I wanted a more specialized board & only a 1 off could do. There is that intangible grin factor & being 1 with the equipment when You have it made for You.

3) Buy quality, after research, asking around , trying different brands and models, I found certain manufacturing processes are cost cutting and quality cutting and so I avoid such brands or models.

If I can afford a peace of gear that is by all objective standards "top notch" I will buy it even if I have to make payments.

Example: I bought a new 2011 full carbon fiber road race bicycle (brand & model withheld ) I put my time in on older used bikes.

I am now ready to mount up on a top notch carbon road bike.

Granted bikes are not snowboards, but I am speaking about amateur advanced level aggressive performance riding so if I showed up at SES sporting a Kessler I bought on line It would be silly & premature I think to have one at this time, cause I never tried a Kessler before I bought it and they "seem" to be made for high level GS type riders with a lot of experience not NUBs like me ( perhaps You guys could enlighten me on that assumption about Kesslers and slower riders.

More power to any small business person who has the nut's to try and break into a sport known for fussy white collar geeks flush with cash and hard charging very knowledgeable blue collar gear heads.:) Oh ya and guys like me " kooks"

[valsam]

I'm sure that this is where all the boutique board makers get their materials. The cat is out of the bag. Where is titanal on that list? If you think Sean, Frank, and Bruce's pricing are so uncompetitive, why don't you show 'em up with this phantom high-performance/low-cost product you seem to know so much about developing?

Well i don't know shiat about making a board but if you would like i can build you a wall or even a roof !

I guess that all the manufacturers you mentioned don't shop from that guy and i don't know the quality of there materials ,maybe someone can enlighten us!

I guess all of the boutique board makers make there own cores but do they weave there carbon fibres and glass fibres, make there own epoxy and sidewalls and inserts and steel edges?

I guess not!

Maybe they even buy from the same guy that provides the other guy with the low-cost materials which i think that you wanted to say low-quality!

And in that case material cost drops even more!

From what i see there is no titanal on that site,but please tell me something ,when you order a metal construction is there a difference in the price then a normal old school glass-carbon fibre construction?

And If yes does this justify the difference in the price:

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/94551/what-a-ski-costs-to-make

Man if you want you could put a gold topsheet with real diamonds on a board and that boutique board would cost 20,000$ in the U.S but if there was (theoretically!)a china man who knew how to build a damn good board and used gold from turkey and diamonds from sierra Leone and could make the same quality board it would cost 20 times less!

And that's a fact!

Here is another cheap low quality material site:

http://www.skibuilders.com/howto/skicon/materials.shtml