Helmet needed?

[Sooperburd]

AFAIK, ending up underwater in a car is dangerous, period.

As soon as the car is submerged, you won't be able to open the doors. You'd have all the time in the world to unbuckle and die free.

Of course, the doors will open once the pressure has equalized. But as long as the car is sinking, the pressure outside will rise faster than water enters the car (unless you're in a convertible). You would have to wait for the car to hit bottom, which, depending on the depth of the waterbody, might or might not improve your chances of survival.

Yes, this is all true. However, I only brought up that situation (of being in an underwater car with your seatbelt on) in order to emphasize my main point that a helmet will not always help.

Please read Neil's link that he posted above. It is very informative.

This quote from that article is eye opening: "[When helmets are worn,] data indicate no decline in fatality incidence (or serious head injury incidence, for that matter...)"

Generally, in accidents at high enough speed, if the helmet actually does protect your head, you'll probably die of something else. I guess the lesson here is, don't bomb down blue runs near the trees. If you want to really haul down a run, stay in the middle. ...and still wear a helmet for the low speed crashes.

[photodad2001]

Wasn't there a post about a skier who drowned because the helmet got wedged between 2 rocks in a creek?

[Neil Gendzwill]

This quote from that article is eye opening: "[When helmets are worn,] data indicate no decline in fatality incidence (or serious head injury incidence, for that matter...)"

That quote could imply the authors recommend against helmet use. That's not the case. Here's a more useful quote that summarizes the intent of the article.

Our research and the research of others has consistently shown a 35- to 50-per-cent reduction in head injury if a head injury is defined as “any injury above the neck.” Helmets prevent close to 100 per cent of relatively minor head injuries (lacerations), but are far less effective at preventing serious head injury (concussions, closed head injury, subdural haematoma and so on). In terms of overall fatality rates nationwide in the U.S., there has been no decline (statistically significant or otherwise) even though nearly half the onslope population now wears a helmet.

[Zone]

To be fair to Sooperburd (what does it mean btw?):

older/heavier helmet cause more neck injuries esp. in children due to the lesser neck muscle strength that cannot hold back the combined weight of their head+helmet.

[leeho730]

Injuries of the head, face, and neck in relation to ski helmet use.

Epidemiology. 2008 Mar;19(2):270-6.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18277163?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3

• CONCLUSIONS: Helmets may provide some protection from head injury among skiers and snowboarders involved in falls or collisions.

Snow sports related head and spinal injuries: an eight-year survey from the neurotrauma centre for the Snowy Mountains, Australia.

J Clin Neurosci. 2004 Apr;11(3):236-42.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14975409?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=6

• The importance of helmet usage in buffering the impact of head-on collision and the proposition of having both feet fastened to a snowboard in leading to cervical injury were highlighted.

Effect of helmet wear on the incidence of head/face and cervical spine injuries in young skiers and snowboarders.

Inj Prev. 2002 Dec;8(4):324-7.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12460972?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=7

• CONCLUSION: This study suggests that, in skiers and snowboarders under 13 years of age, helmet use does not increase the incidence of cervical spine injury and does reduce the incidence of head injury requiring investigation and/or treatment.

Helmet use and risk of head injuries in alpine skiers and snowboarders.

JAMA. 2006 Feb 22;295(8):919-24.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16493105?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

• CONCLUSION: Wearing a helmet is associated with reduced risk of head injury among snowboarders and alpine skiers.

Skiing and snowboarding head injuries in 2 areas of the United States.

Wilderness Environ Med. 2009 Fall;20(3):234-8.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19737041?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=7

• CONCLUSION: There is an increased risk of head injury, regardless of helmet use, at terrain parks as compared to ski runs, and helmets were notably protective in collisions with fixed objects.

Characteristics of helmet or knit cap use in head injury of snowboarders.

Neurol Med Chir (Tokyo). 2007 Nov;47(11):491-4; discussion 494.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18037801?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=20

• Wearing of a helmet or knit cap protected against serious head injuries on jumping. Every snowboarder should wear a helmet or knit cap on jumping to prevent head injury.

The effect of helmets on the risk of head and neck injuries among skiers and snowboarders: a meta-analysis.

CMAJ. 2010 Feb 1.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20123800?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=8

• INTERPRETATION: Our findings show that helmets reduce the risk of head injury among skiers and snowboarders with no evidence of an increased risk of neck injury.

;)

[Wun]

im out of this thread, its just too stupid

yeah; that's why i didn't even post here in the first place.

wait..

:)

[lonbordin]

That certainly looks like something that would deform greatly in a crash. I'll look into it. Thanks!

...and I hope you inform your aforementioned peers of modern helmet design and the overwhelming evidence* in support of wearing helmets.

*see leeho730's most informative post. Thank you leeho730!

[lonbordin]

To be fair to Sooperburd (what does it mean btw?):

older/heavier helmet cause more neck injuries esp. in children due to the lesser neck muscle strength that cannot hold back the combined weight of their head+helmet.

Ummn not according to:

Effect of helmet wear on the incidence of head/face and cervical spine injuries in young skiers and snowboarders.

Inj Prev. 2002 Dec;8(4):324-7.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=7

CONCLUSION: This study suggests that, in skiers and snowboarders under 13 years of age, helmet use does not increase the incidence of cervical spine injury and does reduce the incidence of head injury requiring investigation and/or treatment.

The source was posted by leeho730 and leeho730 deserves full credit!

[Erik J]

Been wearing a helmet for about 12 years.

Luckily I've only ever used it for the 100+ (or something) people that drop the safety bar on my head on the chairlift without saying "bar down" first.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Been wearing a helmet for about 12 years.

Luckily I've only ever used it for the 100+ (or something) people that drop the safety bar on my head on the chairlift without saying "bar down" first.

Actually that's one situation where the helmet makes things worse. Never got hit with the bar before I had the lid. The extra height and the fact that you aren't intuitively aware of it means you get clonked. Or at least, it does me.

[Zone]

Ummn not according to:

Effect of helmet wear on the incidence of head/face and cervical spine injuries in young skiers and snowboarders.

Inj Prev. 2002 Dec;8(4):324-7.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...m&ordinalpos=7

CONCLUSION: This study suggests that, in skiers and snowboarders under 13 years of age, helmet use does not increase the incidence of cervical spine injury and does reduce the incidence of head injury requiring investigation and/or treatment.

The source was posted by leeho730 and leeho730 deserves full credit!

Thanks. I'm taking my statement back.

[two_ravens]

I just added you to my ignore list. Have a nice life.

Woohooo! I made someone's ignore list! No SkES 2011 invite for Soopeburd!

I think our friend Sooperburd believes I'm just messing with him, but seriously folks, progesterone therapy really is the latest best thing that medical science has for brain injuries. And no - progesterone won't turn you into a girly-man!

We all know that helmets don't offer perfect protection. If you or someone you love gets their bell rung, ask about this treatment! It is brand new, and may not be widely known, but looks very promising. Best results if administered within 6 hours of injury.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/CriticalCare/HeadTrauma/17652

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/715373

Ok, I'm outta here - back to my hot tub for 1.

[kjl]

I just added you to my ignore list. Have a nice life.

Heh, I think she was trying to be funny/serious, not dickish :p

Previous studies have shown that progesterone supports the normal development of neurons in the brain, and that the hormone has a protective effect on damaged brain tissue. It has been observed in animal models that females have reduced susceptibility to traumatic brain injury and this protective effect has been hypothesized to be caused by increased circulating levels of estrogen and progesterone in females.[39] A number of additional animal studies have confirmed that progesterone has neuroprotective effects when administered shortly after traumatic brain injury.[40] Encouraging results have also been reported in human clinical trials.[41][42]

The mechanism of progesterone protective effects may be the reduction of inflammation which follows brain trauma.[43]

[lonbordin]

Woohooo! I made someone's ignore list! No SkES 2011 invite for Soopeburd!

I think our friend Sooperburd believes I'm just messing with him, but seriously folks, progesterone therapy really is the latest best thing that medical science has for brain injuries. And no - progesterone won't turn you into a girly-man!

We all know that helmets don't offer perfect protection. If you or someone you love gets their bell rung, ask about this treatment! It is brand new, and may not be widely known, but looks very promising. Best results if administered within 6 hours of injury.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/CriticalCare/HeadTrauma/17652

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/715373

Ok, I'm outta here - back to my hot tub for 1.

Thanks for that source two_ravens. Interesting!

[tex1230]

Isn't it a little early for the annual helmet argument? don't we usually wait till the snow melts?

[lonbordin]

Isn't it a little early for the annual helmet argument? don't we usually wait till the snow melts?

Early bird gets the worm... and all that. On the positive side if it ever comes up again we can just reference leeho730's post and be done with it.

[docrob]

Can I recommend the Giro Remedy full face downhill bike helmet?

The carbon model is really light, and it has lots of vents to avoid overheating. If you are concerned about precipitation getting in, you can always tape over them.

[Guest]

Sooper-

Why would you wear a helmet while riding your bike, yet not when snowboarding? It just makes no sense whatsoever.

[sxybst90]

all i was asking was if there were more risks when alpine snowboarding then freestyle.. and if i were to get a helmet what kind to get....

and this discussion took a different route! hahahaha

I LOVE BOL!!!!!

[emorris]

all i was asking was if there were more risks when alpine snowboarding then freestyle.. and if i were to get a helmet what kind to get....

and this discussion took a different route! hahahaha

I LOVE BOL!!!!!

I love my Smith Maze. It's super light and there are no loose pieces (plugs for vent holes) to lose.

[Guest]

And I love my Giro G10, but it doesn't work with all goggle types.

Make sure and try your prospective helmet on with your goggles to make sure they align, lest you be stuck with some gaper gap.

[big canuck]

Probably not.

Giv'r dude.

[docrob]

maybe it makes sense to get the goggles to fit the helmet. Goggles are pretty cheap, but they can't yet replace youre onboard computer !

Just get a great helmet!

[piusthedrcarve]

After reading this post, I just purchased a helmet, Giro Fuse.

Now, I can go full throttle!!! YEAH! ..

and..am I 100th?

[Ironbird]

It is all about risk and choice, not whether we can call each other names. Any facet of life has risk associated with it, and just how much of it you choose to accept is a personal option. For example wearing a helmet while doing any activity, i.e. - snowboarding. If you wear one, great - if not ok then. Who am I, or for that matter anyone else to judge your personal choice.

What's truly scary is that some people feel the need to force everyone to wear a helmet. As a rational and intelligent adult you should be capable of making that decision for yourself, and not have someone else's will forced upon you. If my local mountain made helmets mandatory, I would head down the road and take my business elsewhere. By doing so, it’s not for your benefit - it's to cover their a$$. Helmets first, then what's next? Mandatory body armor, wrist guards, cervical collar, no metal edges, speed limits - where does it end? Do you really need all aspects of your life regulated for you? This concept is insulting, as to say you are not smart enough for your own good so we will have to do it for you. Well gee . . . . thanks mom!<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

For those of you who immediately revert to name calling, what is this third grade? We are adults and by now should be able to express ourselves that way. If you are so narrow minded that you cannot see past your blinders, and have to call someone an idiot, maybe you should take a look in the mirror. Couldn't hurt to get off the high horse either.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p

Risk is life, choose to embrace it or run away from it - the choice is yours. Just be sure it remains your choice.<O:p</O:p

<O:p</O:p