Alpine Snowboard Plate Systems

[Donek]

I just saw Sean’s presentation of his plate on Donek web page. It looks impressive, but it still does not answer my two main questions. What will happen if mechanisms freeze together or get packed with snow? How it will work if you bend the board so much that it will touch end of the plate. Just look some of the pictures of free carvers published here. The bend of the board is limited by space between board and plate and dimensions of the plate. It was interesting when Sean talked about stand width and dead space of the board. So if you make your stand wider, what is almost official policy here on Bomber (you know thoze zepareted kneezz), you also increase unbendable part of your board. Did I just reopen can of worms?

Personally I think I will wait, when the situation with various plates clears to some extend and there will be some kind of agreement on mounting scheme. Now your board can be like Swiss cheese, full of holes. I rather put money towards new Virus instead.;)

Clearance of the plate and eliminating crashing has been something that defines the dimensions of everything we do. We have 1.6cm of travel in our slider mechanism. In all the testing that has been done, the largest recorded travel over several days of riding has been 0.6cm. I am unable to bend a board far enough to max out the 1.6cm of travel we have. Multiple tests have been performed to verify that there is no interfearence or crashing of the mechanism when pushed all the way to the limits. Your question is probably the very first thing that comes to the minds of anyone designing one of these devices, so it has been endlessly worked on.

As far as snow packing, nobody has encountered any issues with our plate. The slider mechanism is very small and in constant motion while riding. As a result, the likelyhood that such an issue would occur is miniscule. The shape of the parts is such that they do not encourage such an issue. Bomber has incorporated a slider that is designed to break up ice. As you are not the first to raise these questions, I have just examined my parts for room to include such a change. I planned to begin cutting those parts this week, so I still have time to make small alterations. I have included a 4 degree angle in the slider supports that will encourage snow to move out of the slider mechanism. The slider is composed of stainless steel and UHMW (the same as your base material), so snow and ice is not likely to stick to it. Hopefully that allays your fears.

The swiss cheese thing is a concern. We've run many boards with both hole patterns and had no issues. We do offer a version that fits on the 4X4 hole pattern. It is slightly heavier, but is still lighter than a Vist or Hangle.

As for wider stances increasing a boards flat spot, yes it does. It also increases the motion of those stick legs and therefore the effort required to combat it. This is most likely one of the main reasons freestylers with monstrous stances don't carve. They simply can't bend the board. Reverse cambered boards however open that door a little more to those riders.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Sean, thanks again for all the responces. I sure appreciate the time and efforts you put into this work.

Question #1

What has been your general or overall feeling about the board flex in relationship to the plate? I.E. in the early stages of plate developement with Mike Tinkler we would typically go a bit softer to allow for the influence of the plate flex. With the advent of the pivot and full sliding interface that isolates the plate from the snowboards. How do you find your choice of snowboard influenced? Softer, Stiffer or unchanged?

#2 With the decoupling points of contact having a different pressure influence on the snowboard vs bindings mounted directly and demonstrated so well by the "Stick Leg" demo. Will this change the flex patterns of your snowboards in the future? Will this create a "Plate Snowboard" catagory designed specifically around the evolving plate systems and the effects they have on the snowboards? E. I. Softer between the mounting points to allow the board to follow terrain characterists while having minimal effect on the overall flex ? Just one example that may or may not even be valid.

Thanks in advance.

Anxious to mount up and try your plate!!

Hope sales are going well. Pony up, those of you that can afford to be a contributor to the advancement of high end alpine plate system development. Tough times, small niche market, lets keep food on the table for those that make our good times roll!!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

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[BobD]

Bryan, thanks for finding the video. That is coooool

Sometimes I get lazy when it comes to posting pics ;)

[Donek]

Sean, thanks again for all the responces. I sure appreciate the time and efforts you put into this work.

Question #1

What has been your general or overall feeling about the board flex in relationship to the plate? I.E. in the early stages of plate developement with Mike Tinkler we would typically go a bit softer to allow for the influence of the plate flex. With the advent of the pivot and full sliding interface that isolates the plate from the snowboards. How do you find your choice of snowboard influenced? Softer, Stiffer or unchanged?

#2 With the decoupling points of contact having a different pressure influence on the snowboard vs bindings mounted directly and demonstrated so well by the "Stick Leg" demo. Will this change the flex patterns of your snowboards in the future? Will this create a "Plate Snowboard" catagory designed specifically around the evolving plate systems and the effects they have on the snowboards? E. I. Softer between the mounting points to allow the board to follow terrain characterists while having minimal effect on the overall flex ? Just one example that may or may not even be valid.

Thanks in advance.

Anxious to mount up and try your plate!!

Hope sales are going well. Pony up, those of you that can afford to be a contributor to the advancement of high end alpine plate system development. Tough times, small niche market, lets keep food on the table for those that make our good times roll!!

In general, a board with a plate on it felt a bit softer than without. Some of the testers can definitely chime in here and give their feedback as well. Depending on where you typically stand, it can be easier to overload the shovel with a plate. We did, as a result make some flex pattern alterations to minimize this effect. Interestingly enough, these alterations had little impact on riding without a plate if coupled with the newer VSR sidecuts. As I am migrating almost everything in the line to the VSR shapes (fixed radius can still be purchased on request), this alteration comes with no discernable impact to the non plate rider.

I just picked up the aluminum parts from the anodizer. Hopefully you guys are drooling like I am.

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Cool Sean, thanks!!

Yes, looks like you found a color that goes well with the plate AND says "Donek". I don't think I have seen that color used in any other plate or binding systems. Very nice!! Shipping date yet?? Slobber, slobber.

We need a slobbering smilie!!

[Donek]

Cool Sean, thanks!!

Yes, looks like you found a color that goes well with the plate AND says "Donek". I don't think I have seen that color used in any other plate or binding systems. Very nice!! Shipping date yet?? Slobber, slobber.

We need a slobbering smilie!!

I hired a new guy and started snowboard production this week. I think we'll probably finish up the plastic parts this week as well and most likely begin pressing plates next week. Still have stainless parts though. Probably another 2 weeks, but don't hold me to that.

[~tb]

In general, a board with a plate on it felt a bit softer than without. Some of the testers can definitely chime in here and give their feedback as well. Depending on where you typically stand, it can be easier to overload the shovel with a plate. We did, as a result make some flex pattern alterations to minimize this effect. Interestingly enough, these alterations had little impact on riding without a plate if coupled with the newer VSR sidecuts. As I am migrating almost everything in the line to the VSR shapes (fixed radius can still be purchased on request), this alteration comes with no discernable impact to the non plate rider.

I just picked up the aluminum parts from the anodizer. Hopefully you guys are drooling like I am.

Those are some hot looking parts Sean. I can't wait to get my plate(s) and start playing with them. What boards from my past will these re-invigorate? The list of experiments is endless! I knew there was a reason I was holding onto so many of these "older" boards.

Snow can't come soon enough this year.

[Jon Dahl]

Those are some hot looking parts Sean. I can't wait to get my plate(s) and start playing with them. What boards from my past will these re-invigorate? The list of experiments is endless! I knew there was a reason I was holding onto so many of these "older" boards.

Snow can't come soon enough this year.

of computer screen!! Looks GOOD. Just my $.02 here, but I think the older stiffer boards will probably benefit. Got a 182 Donek I will try mine on, old school shape. Also am planning on using it on an old Sims Daytona 162, it is stiff enough so I am not concerned about nose overloading. Anything softer I wouldn't use it on, esp. in a freeride shape.

[Miltie]

Sean, The aluminum pieces look awesome! Can't wait to get mine. Thanks for all your hard work on the plates. Considering to send you another order soon.

Really stoked to ride your plate and Fin's plate this season.

Fin, Please hurry and open up the order que for your plate before my gear budget is blown for the season! Just kidding. Will wait patiently.

Thanks!! Tom

[Snowman]

In general, a board with a plate on it felt a bit softer than without. Some of the testers can definitely chime in here and give their feedback as well. Depending on where you typically stand, it can be easier to overload the shovel with a plate. We did, as a result make some flex pattern alterations to minimize this effect. Interestingly enough, these alterations had little impact on riding without a plate if coupled with the newer VSR sidecuts.

It was very easy to overpower the nose in its origional configuration, so much so that you had to get it back to centered (stance) and not drive too hard for fear of turning the snowboard into a submarine. Once the nose was flex modified this wasn't a problem any more. I think Apex was trying to control this overpowering with the bumpers under the long nose but I saw first hand a failure that I am positive was induced by this design. I think they were demanding too much from the plate by asking it to be a isolating mechanism and a force multiplier to assist the nose.

Think Snow!

[Ladia]

Sean thanks for more info about your plate. It will be interesting to watch, which of all these plate systems will survive next two winters. I want to try it first before jump on the wagon. This brings my question for Sean or another manufactures. Would you maybe consider having a couple plates like rent demo units, that people can try them let say for a week? Demo plates will be probably at SES but not everybody can go there. I know I will not be able to go.

[Jack M]

I wonder why they're using springs in that system? Seems like it would modify the flex of the ski?

I have seen ski bindings on the hill that look basically like they are doing the same thing as what our plates are doing. The binding basically rides on two axles - fixed pivot under the heel, sliding or rolling under the toe. Can't think of what brand it was at the moment.

[BobD]

Sean thanks for more info about your plate. It will be interesting to watch, which of all these plate systems will survive next two winters. I want to try it first before jump on the wagon. This brings my question for Sean or another manufactures. Would you maybe consider having a couple plates like rent demo units, that people can try them let say for a week? Demo plates will be probably at SES but not everybody can go there. I know I will not be able to go.

That's a great idea. There are enough of us in MN who would want to try one before they buy, to make very worth while.

[Donek]

Sean thanks for more info about your plate. It will be interesting to watch, which of all these plate systems will survive next two winters. I want to try it first before jump on the wagon. This brings my question for Sean or another manufactures. Would you maybe consider having a couple plates like rent demo units, that people can try them let say for a week? Demo plates will be probably at SES but not everybody can go there. I know I will not be able to go.

There will be demo units. Todd Brown will have a couple for the East Coast guys. I would be willing to lend them to regions as long as I am dealing with an existing customer and have some reasonable assurance they will be returned. There are actually a few guys buying plates and getting a second hardware kit or even second plate to ensure his friends can try one. I would just need to be contacted by a small group with the request and a timeline for testing and firm return date.

[GeoffV]

There will be demo units. Todd Brown will have a couple for the East Coast guys.

Great news Sean, Todd I'll be intouch with you this season for sure.

I'm thinking about racing at Ward this season.

[MUD]

That's a great idea. There are enough of us in MN who would want to try one before they buy, to make very worth while.

Maybe we could get one for MES.....

[Donek]

Maybe we could get one for MES.....

Sorry, don't know the dates for that, but it's possible.

[wvrocks]

I wonder why they're using springs in that system? Seems like it would modify the flex of the ski?

I have seen ski bindings on the hill that look basically like they are doing the same thing as what our plates are doing. The binding basically rides on two axles - fixed pivot under the heel, sliding or rolling under the toe. Can't think of what brand it was at the moment.

Jack, I think Salomon used that system on the Scream 10 Pilot and some others. I can't find a good picture of it though. It had a plate with a pinned connection on both ends. The binding was mounted on top of that.

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LIVE SEX WEBSHOWS

[wvrocks]

Just my $.02 here, but I think the older stiffer boards will probably benefit.

I was wondering about this too. I have an older Volkl RT 183 GS that I've always found to be a bit stiff. For my riding abilities it is a real handful on our narrow Mid Atlantic runs. If a plate would effectively soften the board it would probably keep me from selling it.

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VOLCANO VAPORIZER

[Jack M]

Jack, I think Salomon used that system on the Scream 10 Pilot and some others. I can't find a good picture of it though. It had a plate with a pinned connection on both ends. The binding was mounted on top of that.

That's the one. You can sort of see it here:

I know I saw one where the front pin was able to slide in a track.

[pokkis]

How much there is diffefence when changing stance of plate to board?

[BlueB]

Yeah, Salomon Pilot is slightly different...

Hangl has the ski plate that works IDENTICAL to the new SB plates. I'll take a pic of mine if I can find it in the garage...

[kieran]

How much there is diffefence when changing stance of plate to board?

i have a hunch that narrowing stance width a little and reducing any toe/heel lift will be more comfortable?

i'm not an engineer, and nor do i play one on tv.

[pokkis]

Just in case i meant write this in Finglish to mean changing stance width for plate, not stance width of rider :) so my question was does that has effect of how board behaves